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back to article As you stare at the dead British Airways website, remember the hundreds of tech staff it laid off

The ba.com and britishairways.com websites and online check-in system for British Airways have been down for the past seven hours or so. The UK's major airline says it has people "at work" fixing the cockup, but as of 1800 GMT no resolution is in sight and BA has not provided an explanation beyond "technical issues." A trip to …

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      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: The solution? Start with more outsourcing...

        "stockholders are the problem. They want their money"

        I don't know how this will work out for BA's stockholders but it didn't do too well for United; I see from the Beeb that they're down 3%.

        4 0 Reply
        1. a_yank_lurker
          Reply Icon

          Re: The solution? Start with more outsourcing...

          "didn't do too well for United" - BA's screw up while affecting many did not result in any reports of paying customers being assaulted because management incompetence. That is an improvement over the Unfriendly Skies where management reserves the right to 'Send in the Goons' on any pretext they can think of.

          17 1 Reply
        2. Davegoody
          Reply Icon

          Re: The solution? Start with more outsourcing...

          "I don't know how this will work out for BA's stockholders but it didn't do too well for United; I see from the Beeb that they're down 3%."

          IMHO after what happened with United, I am amazed that they are not down TO 3% rather than merely down 3%

          2 0 Reply
    2. EarthDog
      Reply Icon

      Re: The solution? Start with more outsourcing...

      Nah. AI is cheaper when it comes to spread sheet monkeys. AI never sleeps, never demands golden parachutes, or quarterly bonuses so they can buy that second trophy mistress.

      0 0 Reply
  2. Tony S

    This comes about because of the common belief by far too many senior managers that "IT is a cost centre" rather than an investment to make money or increase profit.

    In their view, it makes perfect sense to trim the costs involved in providing IT services; and when things go wrong, they still don't see it as an issue, even when the financial team tell them how much they lost.

    In the end, the performance report is by the balance sheet; and reducing costs will be highlighted on there, whereas "lost sales" won't.

    39 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      I think you meant to say "eventual lost sales" but how can i upvote you twice?

      As you say, too often companies only consider immediate cost or revenue from that quarter without considering the fact they are plowing the company into the ground by neglecting any common sense when it comes to long-term performance

      9 0 Reply
    2. nijam Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Senior managers (and middle managers for that matter) are a much bigger cost centre than IT. But guess which of them gets to decide where to cut costs.

      8 0 Reply
  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BA's parent company IAG is expected to report profits of 3 billion euro this year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35662763

    Just think, if they hadn't cut the IT budget, maybe they'd only be making 2 billion profit. I'm so glad that they're unencumbered by concepts like customer and employee loyalty. /sarcasm

    19 0 Reply
    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      But how much has this outage cost them?

      0 0 Reply
  4. Brian Miller

    Why fly?

    Yes, I realize it has to be done every once in a while. As seen with United, though, everything is at the business end of a billy club. Overbooked? Club the passengers off the plane. Here, we have an airline not allowing people on. And when you do go, you get searched in the most invasive way possible. And for things that only work in a movie script.

    If people really want to change how airlines do business, don't do business with them. Don't like the security? Travel by another means. There are alternatives to the sky buses, and you can fly without all the security theater bother.

    Act, and things change. Sit and stare, and nothing changes. You will choose, one way or another.

    16 0 Reply
    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Why fly?

      Personally I take the train whenever possible. Yes, for some distances a flight is the only sane way, but I really, REALLY, avoid connecting flights whenever possible. Like most of central Europe once you land...

      4 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Travel by another means

      really...? The majority of flights cover journeys that are impractical by any other means.

      The cartel... ahem... code share // alliance system means there's rarely any choice on a route unless you happen to live next to LHR, CDG or similar so you're forced to accept what you are given.

      Unfortunately the setup costs of a new route mean once an airline has removed any competition they'll milk it for all it's worth

      4 0 Reply
  5. wolfetone Silver badge

    Imagine the real carnage if the Ryanair website went down.

    "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO PAY MORE TO BOOK IN PROPERLY?! YOUR WEBSITE IS DOWN! I CAN'T CHECK IN TO MY FLIGHT TO BENADORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRM"

    5 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't get me started on those b*stards.

      You can't print your return check in till you have landed on your outbound journey.

      Which b*stard came up with that money maker?

      Though to be fair most shops have cottoned on and print them for you at a cost...

      3 0 Reply
      1. Nifty Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        RE "You can't print your return check in till you have landed on your outbound journey"

        Had you thought of installing that 'app' thing that obviates the need to print out anything?

        5 1 Reply
        1. jgarry
          Reply Icon

          Re: RE "You can't print your return check in till you have landed on your outbound journey"

          Flew Southwest a week ago, sHite site wouldn't respond to phone for return boarding pass. Screw apps. Took an hour to get a warm body to fix, phone battery anxiety

          2 0 Reply
        2. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: RE "You can't print your return check in till you have landed on your outbound journey"

          "Had you thought of installing that 'app' thing that obviates the need to print out anything?"

          No thanks, it'll probably want to know my location, contacts, files, microphone, camera and whether I wipe my arse with my left or right hand.

          5 0 Reply
          1. Sandtitz Silver badge
            Reply Icon
            Coat

            Re: RE "You can't print your return check in till you have landed on your outbound journey"

            "No thanks, it'll probably want to know my location, contacts, files, microphone, camera and whether I wipe my arse with my left or right hand."

            Generally I just use toilet paper, hands are just the backup system.

            8 0 Reply
            1. David 132 Silver badge
              Reply Icon
              Happy

              Re: RE "You can't print your return check in till you have landed on your outbound journey"

              @Sandtitz Really? You haven't figured out how to use the three shells yet?

              4 0 Reply
  6. redpawn

    Penny Wise

    Dumber than a bag of hammers. They should outsource their executive officers to recoup these losses.

    14 0 Reply
    1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Penny Wise

      Good thing they aren't doing anything critical - like running an airline. Oh, hang on a mo............

      4 0 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    schadenfreude

    noun, often capitalized scha·den·freu·de \ˈshä-dən-ˌfrȯi-də\

    6 0 Reply
  8. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    So the site was dead, not just TITSUP*

    *Total Inability To Serve Up Pages

    6 0 Reply
  9. Stevie

    Bah!

    Another story where the Reg printed "outage" and I read "outrage".

    At least this time it sort of fit the mood.

    3 0 Reply
    1. Scroticus Canis
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Re: Bah!

      I think you might be suffering from "Daily Mail-itis".

      A serious condition requiring immediate remedial action - imbibing alcohol. Call a drinking buddy immediately.

      1 0 Reply
  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Manglement...

    HeadDashOH: How does this website work?

    HackIT: We offer complex products to a diverse customer base who then securely procure them via a multi-st...

    HeadDashOH: No, simplify it please!

    BrownNose: We put flights on shelves and customers buy them..

    HackIT: It;s much more complex than th..

    HeadDashOH: Sounds simple enough to me - I don't think we need many people for that!

    BrownNose: Efficiencies can be always made if w...

    HeadDashOH: I don't need the details - get it done.. Too many layabouts down there with their iPods!

    And that was all she wrote...

    7 0 Reply
  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Linking to Twitter

    Could you please *not* do that. Their website is pretty heavy and tends to freeze Firefox (single process, I know!) on less powerful or otherwise busy computers. Just quote inline whatever it is you want to quote.

    9 0 Reply
  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Some of the jobs went overseas to an outsourcer "

    Haha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha chortle

    2 1 Reply
  13. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    A database upgrade is short for "we pleaded for any ex BA techies to help us in our plight and one was paid several thousand pounds for the sound advice to turn off the computer and turn it back on again"

    5 0 Reply
  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As one of those BA IT dudes that was deemed "surplus to requirements" the failure of their website doesn't surprise me at all. When I was still working their, all the BA employed IT people still had some pride in what they did (and maybe even a bit of loyalty, despite the company trying to destroy that as well).

    I suspect whatever caused this issue - which I strongly think was nothing to do with a "database fault" - simply wouldn't have happened if the BA IT staff were still employed. Outsourcers do not care for what they do - in fact, most Indian workers are told by their management to do the bare minimum within their contracts. And since BA is trying to screw them over more and more, is it any wonder that things go wrong?

    Incidentally, I'm now working for a company that had outsourced their IT, realised how shoddy and expensive it was, and is bringing it back in-house (and having to pay premium for good techies).

    Maybe BA will wake up one day.....

    20 0 Reply
    1. Millennia
      Reply Icon

      I'm an IT outsourcer (Managed Cloud) and I DO care about my customers - but then I'm totally UK based and realise happy customers are long term ones - longest running one 15 years and counting.

      I thought all this outsource to India shit was dead in the water now, never seen it do anything but cost more in the end.

      11 0 Reply
      1. nijam Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        As an aside, can we just be clear that other locations than India are available for outsourcing and India is by no means the worst possibility...

        1 0 Reply
        1. EndOutsourcing
          Reply Icon

          Maybe India's not the worst possible place for outsourcing. But then I've never heard of any company outsourcing to Sierra Leone or Bolivia.

          0 0 Reply
    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "As one of those BA IT dudes that was deemed "surplus to requirements" the failure of their website doesn't surprise me at all."

      As I commented on a similar story elsewhere, the in-house team have skin in the game.

      2 0 Reply
    3. Triggerfish
      Reply Icon

      Outsourcers do not care for what they do - in fact, most Indian workers are told by their management to do the bare minimum within their contracts.

      I always get the impression from a lot outsourcing disasters that after the questions have been asked about SLAs for answering in two rings, and calls taking no longer than three minutes, no one thinks to ask "But is it fixed after that three minute call?"

      1 0 Reply
  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Brief moment of Schadenfreude...

    - Had 2 grand taken from me by this airline last year...

    - Warning to anyone planning to transit through the UK. Be careful, as the airline can deny boarding at departure yet keep the entire cost of the flight.

    - I protested the unfair treatment via credit-card resolution but got nowhere. The regulator was even less interested in helping.

    - There are some fine laws regarding air-transit through UK airports that isn't well publicized, if at all, and if you get caught up in that net you're screwed!

    - After the aggressive treatment of the Doctor on the overbooked United flight this week, I'd say United and BA deserve each other.

    - Things will only get worse too with Brexit etc...

    4 6 Reply

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ahh British Airways

    Inefficiency meets Soviet era customer service.

    6 0 Reply
  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Outsourcing ... a broken model

    I have been in IT since 1995 and have yet to see one example of where outsourcing anything has been a success. I do realise that I am now going to get a hundred replies along the lines of "and what have the Romans ever done for us"

    8 0 Reply
  18. Andy 97

    Shareholders demanded cost saving.

    I'm sure they are all delighted with the result.

    2 0 Reply
    1. bazza Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      The trouble is that, by and large, the ultimate shareholders of everything are all our pension schemes. That means it's all our fault.

      6 1 Reply
  19. Maldax

    The better the IT department the less it's noticed by the powers that be apart from the big negative number on the ballance sheet. Maybe we should just turn shit off now and again just to prove we are worth the money. Now that is f**ked up!

    6 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      You can't win. If you turn it all off now and again, then you're shit, and it needs outsourcing. If you get on with it quietly then you're clearly not required because nothing ever goes wrong, and you're just an expensive unnecessary overhead that can be got rid of.....

      7 0 Reply
    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "Maybe we should just turn shit off now and again just to prove we are worth the money."

      I've always thought that that should be the response to beancounters wondering about the value of this "cost" centre. "Shall we turn it off for a day and see?".

      And isn't it surprising that those who invented the term "cost centre" never see themselves for what they are: a cost centre?

      4 0 Reply
    3. Hazmoid
      Reply Icon

      My old boss did that

      As IT support for a major stockbroker, he told the chairman that if the chairman doesn't see him then things are going well. regular upgrades are our way of making sure that users don't forget us.

      0 0 Reply
    4. Jason 24
      Reply Icon

      I have found that letting it hit the fan once in a while can be an excellent tool to finally getting the nod to get something else done.

      But then I've never worked at anywhere this high level, maybe that doesn't extrapolate up.

      0 0 Reply
  20. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    There's outsourcing and then there's outsourcing.

    Both are not the same.

    If you outsource simply to cut costs, you're setting yourself up for an epic fail.

    3 0 Reply
  21. Tricky48

    Maybe if the tech team had done a good job in the first place

    0 9 Reply
    1. nematoad
      Reply Icon
      Unhappy

      Hold on!

      "Maybe if the tech team had done a good job in the first place"

      Oh, are you familiar with the team you mention?

      If you are then please let us know what it is that they did wrong. If you do not then you are either just trolling or an accountant at BA trying to justify the inevitable cock-up that has just occurred.

      Personally I was subject to this "outsourcing magic" Our team who had built and maintained the systems were ditched for people brought in from India. From what I heard later the whole thing turned into a shambles and the company involved had to take the support in-house again.

      See, the thing is you get what you pay for.

      7 0 Reply
  22. Doogie Howser MD

    Testing? Err...yeah

    I couldn't help but wonder why a "database upgrade" (if indeed it was this) would cause such a profound effect on their website. I mean, even in the world of outsourcing they must have test scripts and maybe even blue/green or A/B environments for test/dev/staging to prod? (I know that might be a stretch).

    In my experience, off shore staff do precisely what they're told, when they're told and nothing else. If they're told to click next next finish, they'll do it. Ultimately someone higher up the chain than button bashers should take the blame for a total lack of acceptance testing.

    2 0 Reply

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