back to article Force employees to take DNA tests for bosses? We've got a new law to make that happen, beam House Republicans

Amid the attention on the new US administration's healthcare plan, a law has been proposed that would force employees to hand over their genetic information if they want company health insurance. House bill HR 1313, dubbed the Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, was introduced by Representative Virginia Foxx (R-NC) and …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No,

        Sorry, but Snowden happened under Obama.

        I'll give you the rest though!

        1. mics39

          Re: No,

          But Snowden's exposé would have been even more damning and juicier under the present regime.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "live their life without interference from the state?"

      From the State yes, but not interference from the corporations, of course.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @AC

      Nope. That's the Libertarian Party.

    3. Darth.0

      "Remind me again - the Republicans are the party that believes an individual should be free to live their life without interference from the state?"

      Except when it comes to reproductive rights, that's when the state should step in, that is at least with this version of the Republican party.

  1. The_Idiot

    During the process, Democratic Party members tried to introduce a number of amendments to the legislation, including:

    Employees' health information could not be sold.

    Family members should not be asked for their genetic information.

    Employers should be prohibited from discriminating based on the results.

    So. Based on the voting pattern demonstrated, the Republican members appear to want to preserve options for employers and health insurance providers to sell health information, demand family member genetic information and discriminate based on genetic testing results. Because, of course, all of those points 'deliver more choice for working families.'

    Yes - and I suppose offering your next mugging victim a choice between a bullet in the head or a blade in his back 'delivers more choice.' Whether that makes it a Good Thing(tm) is a rather different question.

    Sigh...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thanks to the laser-like precision of gene testing

      I can tell that this employee is a ... WOMAN!

      Thank goodness the Republicans will preserve my ability to use the test results for discrimination - otherwise I might have to pay lip-service to the Equal Pay Act.

      1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

        Re: Thanks to the laser-like precision of gene testing

        It save them the trouble of getting Big John to drop his pants so that we can check that he's going to the right bathroom.

    2. Mark 85

      Those three points are most reasonable. Not sell, not discriminate, and leave family out of it. WTF are the Repubs thinking? Or maybe it's "who's paying them off so that our DNA info can be sold off"? Is there some LEA that will want this for a national database?

      Thank <$DEITY> that I'm retired. But I do expect that at some point this might be applied to Medicare... "Oh.. you're high risk. You need to pay X times more."

      A pox on them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Do you think the bill is acceptable WITH the amendments?

        1. Mark 85

          NO it isn't but the amendments would pretty much gut the bill. My government is running amok and just saying "no" isn't stopping the stupidity and intrusiveness. I shudder to think where we'll be after a couple of years of this shit since they're just getting started.

          Then again, in two years, it's possible that the two big parties' Congressional candidates will be facing independent or 3rd party candidates who might be able to beat them on election day. But, hope of that happening is fleeting.

      2. Trey Pattillo

        Stop...

        giving the moron congress-critters any more dipstick ideas.

        1. mics39

          Re: Stop...

          Stop that folksy critter nonsense. Fuckwit Americans voted in these cretins that are lack any conscience. Now truly reap what you sow, eh?

          But what about the rest of the world?

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Sir Runcible Spoon
            WTF?

            Re: Stop...

            ""By empowering employers to adopt employee wellness programs, we can take a positive step toward lowering health care costs and promoting a healthy workforce," said Representative Bradley Byrne"

            I'm surprised he didn't need instant healthcare himself after spewing out such a humongous steaming pile of bullshit.

            In other news, people gladly give away their eyeballs* in exchange for chocolate bars.

            *or was that passwords? I forget (I gave half my brain away for a chocolate bar last week).

  2. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Someone told Trump that you can spot a Muslim by their DNA so he's getting his cronies to go for it.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      I like how you brilliant avoided mention IBM and Nazis. Well done.

  3. lnLog
    Facepalm

    More from the land of the free...

    to die from painful and debilitating easily curable diseases, free to die in poverty, free to discriminate based on appearance, melanin density, etc...

    Could be a good version of 'what have the Romans ever done for us?'

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

    ... because everybody with a minimal risk will be fired.

    Why this kind of selection reminds me something very nasty?

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Big Brother

      Why this kind of selection reminds me something very nasty?

      Because it is?

    2. Ian Michael Gumby

      @LDS ... Re: Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

      Had to down vote you.

      Minimal Risk means you want them. High risk you want to fire.

      It doesn't work. It hurts the company in the long run.

      Just like firing your older workers and replacing them with young 'ins. (Millennials.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @LDS ... Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

        No, they want to keep the ones with NEGLIGIBLE or NO risk. Minimal risk is too risky in an overpopulated world.

    3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: LDS Re: Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

      "... because everybody with a minimal risk will be fired....." Well, statistically speaking, the most certain employee healthcare cost risk (as in highest statistical probability of occurrence and medical cost) is that a female employee will get pregnant and give birth during her time of employment. This risk is even greater as it adds an associated cost of finding a replacement due to the likelihood the new mother will not return to work (not in every case, but still a statistical risk). That risk can be calculated through publicly available data, and is already included in insurance companies' calculations for healthcare costs. We already have laws that deal with discrimination against women very effectively, so pretending existing laws against discrimination based on genetics will somehow be invalidated by giving the insurance companies the ability to more accurately calculate the genetic health risks of employees is simply unreasoning hogwash. Or do you want to pretend there are no female employees in America?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: LDS Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

        @Matt Bryant

        For a company, pregnancies are not "a risk". They completely depend on them.

        Unless you don't quite realize that precisely 100% (one hundred percent, I'm neither rounding this up nor making it up) of those companies' customers exist because, at some point, a woman got pregnant.

        *sigh*

        It's not like I have any hope of you toning down the scaremongering and arguing that corporations exist in a vacuum, completely independent of the societies that surround them :/

        1. P. Lee

          Re: LDS Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

          >For a company, pregnancies are not "a risk". They completely depend on them.

          Too imprecise.

          Your own employees getting pregnant is a cost risk. What you want is to externalise that cost and have other companies' employees get pregnant.

          However, if this is entering your thought process, you are probably either in a business which is failing anyway or you think you are contributing to the business when really you are hastening its downfall by pushing policies that ensure all your employees hate you.

        2. thomn8r

          Re: LDS Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

          Unless you don't quite realize that precisely 100% (one hundred percent, I'm neither rounding this up nor making it up) of those companies' customers exist because, at some point, a woman got pregnant.

          Which is perfectly fine - as long as it's some other company's employees that get knocked up.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: LDS Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

            "those companies' customers exist because, at some point, a woman got pregnant."

            I'm almost certain that is is true for the entire company and its directors, as well.

      2. Count Ludwig

        Re: LDS Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

        If you give men and women the same parental leave there is no reason to discriminate based on sex. It might make cause you to discriminate in favour of older workers though, or gay ones.

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Sure it will lower employer costs and promote an healthy workforce...

      how about if we just divorce the idea of 'medical insurance' from 'employer' and let people just buy whatever they want to? That might include NOT going with an insurer at all, or go with one who doesn't do DNA screening.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'll pay the extra.

    There is no way in hell that I will fall for this carrot and stick routine. Resist and refuse. Paying more now to protect that info will be a worthwhile investment.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: I'll pay the extra.

      That assumes you get a choice in the matter...

  6. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Intersting to see what are the *real* priorites of this government.

    I've worked for US companies whose stated aim was to eliminate any employee (or potential employee) who had smoked in the last 5 years.

    I have peed into a cup to do so. The spectrum covered 12 major classes of drugs, but the tester said they can do about 24 (if a company pays of course). This is was not some kind of national security role, just a fairly normal service company.

    Because in the US being able to die of preventable and treatable diseases is viewed as "Freedom."

    1. Ian Michael Gumby
      Boffin

      Re: Intersting to see what are the *real* priorites of this government.

      If the HR policy says that your employment is based on passing a mandatory drug screening or that they can do a random drug test, you're fair game. If they added it after you were employed and then made it conditional of your employment, you can go after them thru the EEOC.

      There's more things that they did in an effort to try and become 'healthier' in order to reduce their insurance costs. Like weight ....

      All it takes is a good trial lawyer to get a case certified as class action and the company melts.

      This is why I run my own shop and it only takes two people to be a group for group insurance.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Intersting to see what are the *real* priorites of this government.

        But if you offer an incentivising discount for healthier lifestyle choices, like biometric swipe-card RFID proven access to and use of gym equipment / exercise record, keeping off the booze and fags, submitting your shopping records so that you can show you buy at least 10 fruit and veg a day for every member of your family... well, that's just good practice, isn't it? As is not having the full English in the staff canteen (mind you the full American of pancakes, maple syrup, bacon, hash browns, fried mushrooms and infinite coffee is probably worse).

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon
          Coat

          Re: Intersting to see what are the *real* priorites of this government.

          I once took a contract at BT and it was a fairly boiler plate affair (pre ir35) but it clearly stated that I was agreeing to random drug tests.

          Since I don't do drugs (tests) I had them remove that clause - it surprised them only because no-one had ever even asked before (why was I not surprised).

          It isn't like they ever actually *had* random drugs tests though, I was just making a point. Used to be good fun winding up my contractor colleagues who had been raving and sitting in a chillout tent the weekend before by telling them that they were conducting tests on the first floor and that they would be doing our section later that day - everyone except for me of course ;)

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Dwarf

    Kinda misses the point

    Given that you don't get a choice in your DNA and that health cover is supposed to be the insurance for those who were dealt the unlucky genes, then this completely misses the whole purpose of providing health cover and at the same time it tramples on so many privacy issues.

    You can see the next evolution would be something like we won't treat sick people as that's costing too much money.

    The other minor detail that seems to be glossed over is that a risk of having health problem X is not the same as having health problem X. Don't forget that we all have a 100% probability of dying !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Kinda misses the point

      > [...] we won't treat sick people as that's costing too much money

      This has always been the Republican position on health care, retirement, any kind of government social safety services, etc, in the US of A, for over 40 years.

      The sick, the elderly and the poor do not deserve health insurance, or health care, because they were careless, or genetically inferior enough to get sick. Or, if they aren't sick already, they might get sick soon.

      Chidren don't deserve health insurance because (a) their parents should pay for their children's expenses and (b) if the parents can't afford it, they should get a better paying job.

      When they retire, old people choose not to work. So, they can't get paid. That 401(k) or pension plan they saved for their entire life? Oh, yeah, it blew up and went up in smoke. We played with derivatives. And then we decided to take the money anyway and pay ourselves a nice chunk of bonuses. If the elderly want to get paid, they can always get back to work. Once they get back to work they can pay for their doctors and treatments from their own pocket. Or they can buy a super-expensive health insurance plan that doesn't cover anything. Yeah, that's the better option: buy a super-expensive and useless health insurance plan first, and then pay from your pocket anyway. It's the American Way[tm].

      Health insurance is only for young, healthy people. Their monthly premiums are a valuable contribution to the US economy, and to the bottom line of so many nice, giant insurance companies.

      This way, we can cut taxes for the top 1% richest people in the world.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Kinda misses the point

        Odd that a party that doesn't believe in evolution is trying to selectively breed for being rich

        1. cimbricus

          Re: Kinda misses the point

          They still believe in Social Darwinism of course.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Unhappy

            "They still believe in Social Darwinism of course."

            Of course.

            Because their great-great-great-grand father proved he was superior that naturally translates down to Junior. the attitude of the British upper classes in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (as Michael Creighton pointed out on the subject of eugenics, a word I only knew from the Wrath of Khan episode of Star Trek).

            Yeah.

            Do Americans still bleat on about having a classless society?

            The only ones I can believe who would still have that idea would be people capable of a very high level of self delusion or membership of the top 1% (or both).

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "They still believe in Social Darwinism of course."

              the attitude of the British upper classes in the late 19th and early 20th centuries

              Maybe. But isn't Trump of the finest Teutonic stock? I'm pleased he's not making out that he's got any British ancestry. And he certainly seems to follow the Austrian school of political communications*.

              * Yes, I plead guilty as charged under Godwin's law. But so should Erdogan, in other news.

              1. Tom 38

                Re: "They still believe in Social Darwinism of course."

                Maybe. But isn't Trump of the finest Teutonic stock? I'm pleased he's not making out that he's got any British ancestry.

                Unfortunately...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Kinda misses the point

        Some archconservatives would rather we repealed the law enacted in 1985 that required emergency rooms to admit patients regardless of ability to pay. Then it would be back to charity hospitals and people dying on the streets, keeping the population down and lowering the life expectancy so fewer people went on Medicare or stayed there for long. You can't afford to save yourself? DIE and make room for those who can? Oh, your child has sickle cell? Take the Spartan way out; leave him to die and try again? Oh, the wife died in childbirth? You have failed as parents; shoot yourself now. Life's hard and then you die.

      3. Ian Michael Gumby
        Boffin

        @ST Re: Kinda misses the point

        Man, you have a really warped view of the world as well as healthcare.

        You must be in the UK where the NHS is broken and you have a two tier system. Those only on NHS and those who have a supplemental insurance or those who can afford to pay cash.

        You have to realize that under the ACA not everyone has coverage or can afford coverage. You can make too much money to get any discounts, and/or the remaining balance would be more than you could afford.

        Prior to the ACA, each state would create funds for risk pools for those who couldn't get insurance. Also there was medicaid. And if you had group insurance you couldn't be denied coverage.

        You have no clue about health insurance.

        Obamacare/ACA is in a death spiral and is collapsing. No point in having a health care market when you have no insurance companies willing to provide coverage at a loss. Removing ACA is the best thing Trump and Congress can do.

        Replacing it with something... that's the hard part because Obama did way to much damage, which was his plan in the first place.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @ST Kinda misses the point

          > You must be in the UK where the NHS is broken and you have a two tier system.

          Wrong. I live in the US.

          > You have no clue about health insurance.

          Actually, I do, as I live in the US, and I buy health insurance from my employer. Have done so for a bit more than two decades. I have also worked in finance for 10+ years and I have a working understanding of probability and statistics, based on having written code dealing with these subject matters. In a state that has had a statutory mandate prohibiting rescissions, or denial of coverage, based on pre-existing conditions, for two decades before the ACA was even drafted.

          So, no, I don't need you or Matt Bryant telling me what I do or do not know.

          Prior to the ACA, risk-pool health insurance was too expensive to be affordable. It also carried too many exclusions to be worth anything. That made it equivalent to non-existent.

          Prior to the ACA, Medicaid was simply not available to a significant percentage of those who needed it. That made it equivalent to non-existent. The ACA expanded Medicaid making it available to low-income individuals and families.

          Prior to the ACA, one could be denied coverage based on any pretext the insurance company would come up with. The insurance company could deny treatments, medical procedures, or tests. Look up the word rescission.

          Prior to the ACA, there was a yearly, and lifetime cap, on health coverage payouts, per person.

          There are many problem with the current ACA, as passed by Congress. The cost of prescription medicine is one of them. Medicare and Medicaid have a statutory prohibition on negotiating the prices of FDA-approved drugs within US borders.

          Which translates to FDA-approved drugs costing 100 more in the US than in Canada, UK, France, Germany, Brazil, Italy, etc. The ACA did not solve this problem, because the ACA, in its current form, is too beholden to the Big Pharma companies.

          Stop your clueless parroting of Republican talking points. There's enough of that on TV and in the news already.

          Alternatively, why don't you get a job as a health insurance company lobbyist. You seem to have a natural predisposition for it. In this professional capacity, you would find a very receptive audience for your beliefs within a certain segment of current GOP Congresscritters.

          1. Ian Michael Gumby
            Boffin

            @ST ... Re: @ST Kinda misses the point

            Son,

            1) I am licensed to sell health insurance. (Yeah really. )

            2) I purchase health insurance for my corporation.

            3) Back in the 90's when you were still in diapers, I purchased individual plans when you could and had to deal with the limited plans that were available.

            Again, you really don't know the half of it. Talk to hospital administrators and the problems that ACA created for those in small practices.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @ST ... @ST Kinda misses the point

              > I am licensed to sell health insurance. (Yeah really.)

              Oooh, you're an insurance salesman? Do you go door-to-door?

              That explains everything. Lies, deceit and bullshit are the basis of your income earning ability.

              Selling insurance doesn't imply that you understand how insurance works. Clearly you do not. The only qualification required to sell insurance is being able to lie with a straight face, and without displaying any signs of stress.

              Thank you for confirming what I had suspected all along.

        2. Cris E

          Re: @ST Kinda misses the point

          Wait, who doesn't know insurance?

          ACA was intended to make insurance possible for people who chose to go for it. You can complain about premium increases or making too much money, but honestly what the ACA did was a vast improvement for tens of millions of people. The only real problem was the incentives to get healthy people off the sidelines were too low. The new plan offered by Republicans reduces the subsidies to the poor, increases them to the affluent who don't need them, and and decreases the incentives for healthy people to get in the pool.

          And risk pools are awful. Not sure where you're from, but my state had one that featured unpayable premiums and stratospheric levels of subsidy to stay solvent. Those subsidies came from... fees levied against the health plans of the healthy. The latest Trump plan will leave craters in the budgets of any insurance company dumb enough to try running a high risk pool since the proposed supports are laughably below anticipated costs to run such pools.

          The ACA attempted to do things better but was only passed after running a gauntlet of hostile legislators intent on sabotaging it rather than dragging it toward some agreed upon middle ground. Replacement is difficult because instead of focusing on finding something that works the new administration's first goal is to not do anything like the current incarnation regardless of its value. That makes it harder than it should be, and for some really pretty partisan reasons.

  9. Ian Michael Gumby
    Boffin

    Won't past muster.

    It would violate HIPPA.

    As others point out, it would allow employers to check for hereditary risk for diseases like cancer and some how disqualify a candidate. Its a lawsuit waiting to happen. There's more but that's a start.

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