'Hey, Homeland Security. Don't you dare demand Twitter, Facebook passwords at the border' Over 50 human rights and civil liberties groups, nearly 100 law professors and security experts, and lawmakers have launched a campaign against digital searches at the US border. An open letter condemns recent comments by Homeland Security secretary John Kelly in which he proposed requiring selected non-citizens entering the …
"Every last White American Idiot is an immigrant from some other country..."
No, most white American idiots are descended from immigrants, though some actually are immigrants.
I, myself, am a native American (I am not indigenous but I am native). My grandfather and his mother and sister were immigrants, but I was born here and have never known any other home.
This, in fact, is a large part of the problem: people in the US forget that we are largely descended from immigrants and those nouveau natives now want to keep the country to themselves.
But even with all of that, this new idea of forcing people to surrender access to social media accounts is ludicrous! It's as much an invasion as asking for the keys to your car or house!
"people in the US forget that we are largely descended from immigrants"
Especially that guy who keeps coming up on the news? Can't remember his name. German ancestry - grandfather was German went to the US around the time of the gold rush. Father was born in the US but was such a great patriot he was accused of profiteering during WWII, and then also investigated for various Civil Rights Act issues (I guess being arrested during a Klan march will do that for a reputation). Weirdly although his father claimed to be Swedish, but the son has been talking nonsense about Sweden recently.
"This, in fact, is a large part of the problem: people in the US forget that we are largely descended from immigrants"
The evidence seems to suggest the exact opposite of that; and seems to me to be a big part of the problem... as in "I'm Irish/Italian/Polish/Armenian/whatever American" which seems to be the way an awful lot of people seem to identify despite the fact that having been born there to parents that were also born there would make them "American" (I've no problem with "American of [country] extraction" I myself am English of Italian extraction )
It's already happening, a colleague and his family are Muslims, the daughter is a US citizen and was intimidated into handing over her smartphone and all social media passwords by TSA on her return home after a family wedding in the UK.
Sorry US, calling yourselves the land of the free has become an ironic joke.
I note a few days ago a news story about a Welsh teacher accompanying other teachers and kids from a school in Wales, was stopped and prevented from flying to the USA as a US customs point in Iceland. He was born British, with a UK passport, but had a 'Muslim' surname. So all the legal protests and all the standing laws of the USA as as nothing compared to one little swaggering jumped-up security guard.
Happened to a British born Muslim friend of mine back in the Bush days too, his name flagged an alert on some watch list and he was refused boarding at Manchester airport for a family holiday to Disney.
Kinda narrows down the name combinations when you realise an awful lot of Muslim boys are named Muhamed first and then live their lives using a middle name for daily life.
For once, Trump isn't at fault, as much of a dickhead as he is. It stems from the Ninth Circuit US v. Arnold decision: https://www.eff.org/cases/us-v-arnold in 2008
It's good that it's finally getting pushback even though it's REALLY FUCKING LATE.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/05/protecting-yourself-suspicionless-searches-while-t
That is new, and it's all Trump.
Male Bovine excretment
Look at the New York Times dated June 28 2016 ...
WASHINGTON — The federal government has proposed adding a line to forms filled out by visitors to the United States that would ask them to voluntarily disclose their social media accounts, a step that it said would help in screening for ties to terrorism.
or there is Politico 22/12/206 (before Trump was sworn in for those who need to remove shoes to count to 20)
NEW YORK — The U.S. government quietly began requesting that select foreign visitors provide their Facebook, Twitter and other social media accounts upon arriving in the country, a move designed to spot potential terrorist threats that drew months of opposition from tech giants and privacy hawks alike.
Sure, voluntarily - no one's going to force you to do it, you can just decline and jump back on the next flight home.
Besides Sir, if you've got nothing to hide then why on earth wouldn't you want to support us in our fight against terrorism? Heck, no, there must be some goddam reason you're acting so un-American and unpatriotic (apart from not being American). Sir, are you obstructing me in my duties? etc etc etc
Be fair. Mr Trump only wants your Twitter password so he can log on to your account and force you to follow him. And what's wrong with that? Anyone on Twitter deserves to follow Mr Trump. It's a benefit, not an punishment. And listening to Mr Trump's pearls of wisdom is simply joyful.
First, I wish there was a 'murica icon on El Reg... but this one is the closest fit (dramatic irony is fun).
Here's the thing: You could get signatures from every professor, every student, from every field, but they won't listen. Terrorism is the new communism... and before it was fascism. And before *that* it was europeans... and then native americans, all the way back to when we were hating on the British (by the by, I think you guys are great. Sorry about that whole Brexit thing, and how we were such dicks about your nuclear weapons program you risked a nuclear catastrophe to prove what valuable allies you were. Very much a dick move for us). In every generation there has been a scarecrow, a boogieman that hides under the bed.
Why? Because our executive branch heads the military, and nothing promotes a strong military like fear of "Them" does... whoever Them is. And so, we've always had a scarecrow, and the scarecrow has been the traditional way in every society of effacing individual freedoms in deference to the State. That's all there is to it. There's no complicated politics, no real danger... there's nothing here. But by making nothing into something, the power of the executive branch is expanded. And there has always been collateral damage... there's always been a dog we kicked. During WWII we had the Japanese internment camps. We did it again with Guantanamo Bay. We tortured people and defaced our core principles -- and we did it all so we could have a slightly more powerful President. And now we have Homeland Security, the bottomless wellspring that current and future Presidents can draw from whenever they want, trading freedom for power.
The average American doesn't want the TSA. They don't want Homeland Security. They have been convinced it is a "necessary evil", and believe that because every television, every radio, every Facebook and Twitter post, even our cameras and cell phones are watching us and whispering the same message constantly: "Fear! Fire! Foes!" And it has embedded itself into our culture and become pervasive to the point most people have stopped noticing... or caring.
It's hardly without precident... remember that when Germany tried to take over the world and hit you guys hard... when Winston Churchill said "Never give up, never surrender"... he wasn't up against the whole of the German people. Only a very few were actually Nazis. The rest simply didn't care. They provided a strong economy and sense of security and... satisfied with their improved quality of life they simply didn't care anymore. It was the path of least resistance -- and historically, that's always where the general public, in every country, has fallen. Whatever is cheapest. Whatever doesn't rock the boat. And so it is here -- a small minority are responsible for these injustices. The rest... simply don't care.
And no amount of petitioning or protesting is going to change it until it's their house that gets burned down, their children that get sent to the war, their wealth that's on the line. As it has always been... everywhere. Ever.
It's really true that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. Yes, only a few were Nazists/Fascists/Communists and the others just obeyed to orders... and the millions of people killed in the concentration and "re-educations" camps or gulags - after being often denounced by their neighbors - happened just because they "simply don't care"?? No, the truth is most people willfully adhere to evil - especially when it is designed to exploit their weakness and promise a "new order". Then, when this "new order" shows it's quite like hell for most of them, if it crumbles then those who hailed it since the beginning say "me? no, no, always against it....".
Before I start, sorry, just can't help myself sometimes.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/homeland-security-report-disputes-threats-from-trumps-banned-nations/
I can agree to scrutinize someone if they've gone to a country known for training people to do acts of terrorism to a degree and strong ties to terrorist organizations but if they are home grown by whatever organization how can you stop that?
They might just be there to visit family or attend a loved one's funeral, doesn't seem fair to penalize them cos they have family abroad.
By checking FB and social media accounts for radical comments etc, IDK, might catch some I suppose, there will always be people disgruntled with the system and maybe a little crazy but if we don't solve some of the problems in our society instead of a few nutters we are promoting this shit to a level that's becoming a nightmare for us.
There are militia movements in the US too and lots of gun clubs, I think home grown radicalism (Whatever faith) is going to be the big problem for any country, this IMO presents the biggest threat cos they may be clever enough or trained to stay off the radar.
Find the bases used for training and identify those attendees training there needs to be a priority on all possible risks to honest working folks.
I was parked next to one the four bins the IRA had planted bombs in one day before in Warrington (The one outside the bookies, not MacDonalds BTW, full of kids, a Saturday) and my niece was in the play center that got targeted two days before whilst shopping in the Arndale center, Manchester, so missed that one thank whatever God you pray to, Messed up the gas holders though they failed to go off and two of the devices on Bridge street, luckily the one outside MD's.
Mentioned that before, but sick of this shit, life's hard enough without it.
I think religion has become the enemy sometimes and yet inspires so much good in others, eye in the sky is a good movie to watch, load of bollocks mind you, if you've ever seen 'That seriously gone wrong drone strike footage'!
Rant over.
Just as they took notice of BoJo's assurance that the Muslim ban didn't apply to British citizens...
British Muslim teacher taken off US-bound flight: I was treated like a criminal
Its not particularly difficult to delete your social media application before crossing the border. After all, this information is stored in the cloud so you just pull it back as needed when you get to where you're going.
I'm the first to agree that this is wrong, wrong, wrong. However, you need to know when and where to pick a fight with the Federal government; doing this at the port of entry is definitely not a good time. Play dumb, deny knowledge of anything like social media -- after all, any self respecting terrorist will be using a burner phone and sanitized social media accounts so why not just copy them?
"Or.. hand over the stuff they want. Once past security, change the frikkin' passwords.
Actually, just don't do social media or have dummy accounts."
Yeah, make sure you change your name by deed poll too if it sounds too furrin for the yankees.
The thing is, if you have a Facebook account, and tell them you don't, you may be fine. Unless they find out that you actually do have a Facebook account, and told them you didn't. At that point, you are in deep carp for lying to them, which is itself a serious crime. So it's quite risky.
Re changing your passwords, sure, but that will only protect any new content you make after leaving the airport. Forensic software can quickly download everything on your account within minutes of you givine the password.
Personally, if I had to travel to the USA, I would be concerned... I have a Facebook account, but I only made it because a game required it for online backups, so it has literally no content. Same for Twitter, I only made that account because there was one feed I wanted to follow years ago. That has to be mighty suspicious.
You could leave your normal sim at home and use a payg for travel in the US. That way, they don't get the 2fa codes.
Or, use the payg sim for the codes instead, just leave it at home. If you need a code, leave the phone with a friend and say only forward them to my number if I request it personally from you via a phone call.
As I, and many others, have said before: what if you tell them you don't have any such accounts? And I don't mean: what if you actually don't have any accounts.
What will they do if you just tell them you don't have any details to give?
This is the big question because it undermines the whole concept. How do you know they are lying? Yes, if you have a Facebook account in your name with your photo then that is something that can be searched and found but what if you don't have any directly identifying information visible in those accounts?
At that point, the border control staff have two options: believe you and let you though or don't believe you and single you out for more rigorous screening. The latter amounts to discrimination, though, unfortunately, not of any kind that you are protected from.
It's a thought that crosses my mind when I see police. Not that I have ever had any negative interactions with them, but I do not carry any photographic ID day-to-day. I just don't.
So what happens if I am stopped by a police officer and asked for identification? Australian police have the authority to do this and I have an obligation to produce my ID when asked but I have no obligation to either own such ID nor to carry it on my person at all time.
And that's the problem (one of them!) here as well - border staff will have the authority to request details that you are under no obligation to actually have in the first place.
"Australian police have the authority to do this and I have an obligation to produce my ID when asked but I have no obligation to either own such ID nor to carry it on my person at all time."
The UK wartime ID cards were finally withdrawn several years after the war. The trigger was an incident where a policeman demanded to see someone's ID card - and the incident escalated. I believe the police in England can ask your name and address - but not sure you are obliged to give them an answer.
In New Zealand I am obligated to tell any policeman who asks my name and address. I am not obliged to show ID unless I'm driving, in which case I must show a valid drivers license.
My son recently was asked for ID by a policeman outside a nighclub. He politely told the policeman his name and address and refused to hand over his ID.
The policeman took it in reasonable spirit, but did say "how do I know if you're telling the truth?", to which my son replied "That's really not my problem, is it?".
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