back to article Microsoft ordered to fix 'excessively intrusive, insecure' Windows 10

A French regulator has issued Microsoft a formal warning over Windows 10, saying the operating system collects excessive amounts of personal data, ships that information illegally out of the EU, and has lousy security. The warning comes from the Commission Nationale de l'Informatique et des Libertés (CNIL), an independent data …

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Re: Rather Late.... - Blackberry Playbook ?

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback - some options available - so will investigate.

Thanks and Regards,

Shadmeister.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Rather Late....

@ Neil Alexander

Are you suggesting MS has got the UI right? Some would suggest they were with XP or Win 7, but they've moved on from there.

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Re: Rather Late....

It has been doing quite well doing desktop computing -- for about 15-20 years I've been using it. Bot at work and at home.

You just have to get used doing without a nanny computer service - that costs you an arm and a leg.

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Re: Rather Late....

You could also Raspberry Pi...it'd be a bit lumpy for a tablet; but there's people making 7" and 10" capacitive touchscreens for them.

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Re: Rather Late....

"Yeah, but Canonical, need to stop using crappy chip vendos *cough* MediaTek *cough*,"

- They aren't Apple. The choice of chip is wholly up to Bq, Meizu etc. I doubt they're given an option on the choice of hardware, and all Ubuntu phones released have been Android (or Flyme OS) designs repurposed.

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Flame

To think that...

There are STILL people on the internet AT THIS MOMENT that call me a tinfoil hat wearing nutjob for telling them about Windows 10's disgusting business model.

These people STILL think Microsoft gave them the awesome gift of Windows 10 for free out of the goodness in their hearts.

I will save this article and use it as yet another evidence for my claims.

Never will I upgrade my personal Computer to 10. Not in a million years!

Fuck Microsoft!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To think that...

and with so many Linux distros being infect with SystemD I've move to VectorLinux which is based on Slackware.

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Linux

Re: To think that...

"and with so many Linux distros being infect with SystemD I've move to VectorLinux which is based on Slackware."

- Oh good grief, is there anybody else here who could do with surgery to remove the chip from their shoulder, or would like to highlight any other obscure linux distro due to it's choice of subsystem? Just so we can get it out of the way....

Systemd does not collect data and send it anywhere. Just in case anyone who is unaware of it might think it all related to the forum topic due to a rabid A.Cs tenuously referenced comment.

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FAIL

Re: To think that...

Not every body dislikes systemd because of perceived keylogging or whatever. The main reason to dislike systemd is it's an init system that has grown beyond being just an init and trying to do too much. It's not 'do one thing and do it well' - it's trying to be a swiss army knife.

Not to mention the binary logs - that's another issue entirely.

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Joke

Re: To think that...

I'm actually vaguely surprised systemd doesn't come with a keylogger, considering how many other things it's borged.

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Thumb Up

Re: To think that...

HAHA! Plus, there's so many distros without it, who's even complaining but 100% noobs? Figure out how to make use of systemd, get a distro without it, shit, or get off the fucking pot. God damn, people who don't do anything love to complain. Find something to do and your complaint list shrinks by orders of magnitude, idiots.

This is how I undercut many other lazier admins when I got into Solaris 10 at a site that was looking for people who already knew this new, at the time, OS; you get on it and learn how the new system services tools works, you play with the zones (if you call them containers, you're a fucking dufus. We KNOW what they are, just call them zones, pinhead), and now you're an "expert." It's how the world works, and how you undercut do-nothing assholes who won't learn anything new. I eat those garbage-people for breakfast. Yum yum. ;) Oh look, here come some idiots now...

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Re: To think that...

"and with so many Linux distros being infect with SystemD I've move to VectorLinux which is based on Slackware."

you can always use FreeBSD or one of the other BSDs. I do.

(ghostbsd has a nice live DVD version you can boot and install from)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To think that...

thinks: Hmm, had enough of Windows. Really need to make the leap to Linux. Oh, there's a million different flavours. Let's see which one I need to go for... er... ah... er, I'll carry on with Windows for now; maybe I'll look at Linux next week...

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Linux

Re: To think that...

thinks: Hmm, had enough of Windows. Really need to make the leap to Linux. Oh, there's a million different flavours. Let's see which one I need to go for... er... ah... er, I'll carry on with Windows for now; maybe I'll look at Linux next week...

No no no, don't quit now, you are on the path. Just go with mint, it's easy. I'll even help you install it and show you the basics.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To think that...

"nd with so many Linux distros being infect with SystemD"

At least the source is available for knowledgeable users to check

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Re: To think that...

"Just go with mint, it's easy."

I set up a bootable USB stick with Mint so that I could try it out... and discovered that my laptop won't boot it. It won't boot *anything* from USB. It doesn't have an optical drive, so creating a CD isn't a solution. (And, yes, I have checked the BIOS - once I was able to get into it - and made sure there was nothing preventing it.)

It was cheap rubbish. I knew it was cheap rubbish when I bought it, so I got what I deserve for that.

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Re: To think that...

"It's not 'do one thing and do it well' - it's trying to be a swiss army knife."

Well, when you're running in a system where the entire landscape can change on a moment's notice (think dynamic, hotplugging buses like USB and so on, where NOTHING is fixed anymore), you pretty much HAVE to be a jack of all trades to be able to handle that curveball coming out of nowhere.

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Re: To think that...

I had a similar problem, with a not-cheap laptop.

It turned out to be issues with whether the USB drive concerned is actually bootable, a 'fixed drive' or a 'removable drive'.

Windows would not make a bootable system on the Sandisk I had because it would not be bootable if it did.

I looked around for one that would do the job but actually bought an external USB DVD drive, for £11, which solved all the problems and the issue of not having a DVD drive too.

It turned out later that there was a small app you can download, mentioned here, the link it has is an executable file: download http://guysimplify.com/boot-and-run-dos-from-a-usb-flash-drive/

'Course, it might be your laptop.

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Re: To think that...

"...HAHA! Plus, there's so many distros without it, who's even complaining but 100% noobs? Figure out how to make use of systemd, get a distro without it, shit, or get off the fucking pot. God damn, people who don't do anything love to complain. Find something to do and your complaint list shrinks by orders of magnitude, idiots.

This is how I undercut many other lazier admins when I got into Solaris 10 at a site that was looking for people who already knew this new, at the time, OS; you get on it and learn how the new system services tools works, you play with the zones (if you call them containers, you're a fucking dufus. We KNOW what they are, just call them zones, pinhead), and now you're an "expert." It's how the world works, and how you undercut do-nothing assholes who won't learn anything new. I eat those garbage-people for breakfast. Yum yum. ;) Oh look, here come some idiots now...."

Good to see the friendliness of the Linux community is improving...

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Re: To think that...

Pixie Boot ? :)

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Re: To think that...

"'Course, it might be your laptop."

As of twenty minutes ago, I'm even more sure that it is than I was before.

I've had a quiet morning where I'm working today, so I've dragged out a laptop the company has spare and used that very USB stick I couldn't boot from on my own laptop to boot into Linux Mint. I had to change the relevant BIOS settings to allow it, but I now have Mint up and running on it.

The only snag with trying it on that laptop is that the installation discs for the Windows software that I want to try under Linux (such as Sage, which I absolutely need) are all at home.

Still, I can have a little play as the day goes on, so that's something.

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Re: To think that...

I realised I had a copy of the Sage installation disc on the hard drive of this computer (I copied it via another machine in order to install it in the first place). So I copied that to another USB stick and, after installing WINE, tried installing Sage from that.

The Sage System Checker says my computer doesn't have enough free memory; it needs 2GB, but it thinks there is none - but everything else gets a tick. Proceeding to install (the other option being to give up there and then) leads to an error from InstallShield: "1608: Unable to create InstallDriver instance, return code -2147221164."

Searches for that give results that are very Windows specific, such as try right-clicking and running as admin. (Didn't see "Have you tried switching it off and on again" though.)

On the basis that error is to do with the installer, not Sage itself, I've also tried copying my actual Sage installation via a USB stick - but trying to run that under WINE just gives a moment of hourglass activity, then nothing.

Trying another approach entirely, I've also installed GnuCash... and after a little bit of playing with it, uninstalled it again as being entirely unsuitable as a replacement for Sage.

Ho hum. I will try again at some point, but for now I can't spare any more time. :/

Note: I use Sage Line 50 2013 (v19) - my lack of success with that version may not apply to other versions. It also might not apply to that version with other people, given that I am a complete Linux noob.

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Re: To think that...

No, it doesn't do THAT... but it does make the system harder to configure, harder to debug, harder to boot and shutdown...

Just harder to control in general.

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Stop

Re: To think that...

You might want to try something like Plop Boot Manager - for PCs that won't boot from floppy, USB etc. as standard: https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html

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Re: To think that... (VinceH)

Have you tried updating the BIOS? I remember having read about a similar problem in some forum a few years ago, and the guy fixed it with a BIOS update.*

*Note: Unless it's one of those Chinese no-brand laptops they sell in the 'net, in which case you're probably screwed.

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Re: To think that... (VinceH)

Thank you Billum and Uncle Slacky. Useful things. Once you get past the "pixie boots" from ebay.

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Re: To think that...

Um.... Last I checked, systemd does do one thing, and does it well -- Manage services.

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Re: To think that... @Dadmin

Everything about your post and attitude is the reason I think Linux will never get on a desktop for the average user.

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Re: To think that...

systemd does do one thing, and does it well -- Manage services.

If it did it well, with some suggestion of valid documentation (other than the source code), it might indeed be useful. As it is, systemd does what it does very badly indeed.

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Vic
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Re: To think that...

It's not 'do one thing and do it well' - it's trying to be a swiss army knife.

Not so.

It's trying to be the whole Swiss Army...

Vic.

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Even so..

Allez les bleu for giving this a go.

Bon chance.

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Why

Why hasn't our (pick your locale) government taken a similar stance too ?

Good on yer .. Vive la France !

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Re: Why

"Why hasn't our (pick your locale) government taken a similar stance too ?"

Simple answer... They want to be able to get (buy) the data from Micro$oft... Most governments don't give a rats arse for our privacy.

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Anonymous Coward

Apple

I hate to say it, but it looks like Apple is looking better and better. Microsoft has been going downhill for years.

I believe with newcomers (kids) leaning towards Apple, OSX will be the most widely used operating system in the next 7-10 years and Microsoft will be in the minority. Unless they change their ways, and fast.

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Re: Apple

With you on that. I have two macs that I do work on, and only use my Windows 10 PC for playing Racing SIM games that don't run on the Mac. No point in using Windows 10 for anything serious, beyond gaming.

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Re: Apple

Apple seems to understand the consumer market better than Slurp. This may be due to Fruit being a hardware vendor first and providing software to make their kit work out of the box. As a hardware vendor, software sales is less important to them. What Slurp forgot is how they became dominant. It was combination of marketing, illegal deals, luck, and competitor blundering. This is likely to be a one time effect for Slurp. Fruit has survived and Chocolate Factory is well aware of Slurp's history.

As far as future market share, I suspect Fruit will grow some but not to 50%. The OEMs will be looking for an OS to push and some Linux distro/derivative is a good candidate for them. Many are testing the waters with Chromebooks.

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LDS
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Re: Apple

Apple's huge profits makes it uninterested in slurping data, even if it's a stylish hardware vendor with software on top (but its prices will keep anyway a lot of customers away, and those profits also come from being a high-end brand only).

What surprise me is exactly being a software vendor Microsoft should be very careful about killing its golden eggs chicken - but it's doing exactly that. It's trying to alienate its customers from its products.

Nadella is trying to reshape Microsoft alike Google - thinking to find profits in a different business than selling software - but using software as a Trojan horse. In other news, Skype will be used again to make all the traffic go through MS servers - another evidence of the shift.

He's just risking to kill the software business, without finding money in a market Google already dominates.

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Re: Apple slurping...

It's not as if Apple isn't also slurping away all the time:

http://lifehacker.com/lets-talk-about-apples-privacy-issues-1655944758

But as with both Microsoft and Apple, if you understand what it's doing, why it's doing it, you can make an informed decision to set your privacy settings accordingly!

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Re: Apple

There is only one reason why I do not want an Apple computer: it is very difficult to repair yourself. I had to remove a hard drive from a dead first generation iMac. It took me 15 minutes just to remove the rear cover because visible screws are somehow the 8th deadly sin. On a newer iMac, I was asked to replace a failed hard drive. It took me an hour just to get to the drive. I like to service my own equipment whenever possible. And not just computers, anything I can. Apple use of proprietary screws just rubs me the wrong way.

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Re: Apple

Im starting to lean to Apple too. Linux is still not refined enough and certain apps unsupported. Apple also has some privacy concerns but it seems that you can opt out of them easier and stay opted out.

Windows as a service is way too unpredictable. I see on a test laptop that Win 10 likes to reset app defaults and privacy settings after major updates. Until I can turn telemetry OFF and not just switch to Basic then I wont use it. Its not just privacy either. Ive lost all trust in MS to do the right thing and do it in my interests. They add and remove features at a whim and I actually find Win10 to be clunky.

Once my current laptop dies I'm leaning towards a Macbook Pro. I will just have to take the £££ hit !

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Re: Apple

If Linux isn't 'refined enough' then certainly neither are Windows nor OS-X.

For the record: ALL OSes are steaming piles of digital poo.

Which ever one you pick you have to be willing to get your hands (and/or your conscience) dirty keeping the whole steaming pile up and running. That's the way it is.

By all means prefer one (or more) over others, but don't make it a religious issue, and don't pretend that your preferred pile of poo stinks any less than anyone else's, because it doesn't - it just stinks differently, but stink it surely does, even if you have got so used to it you don't really notice any more.

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Happy

Re: Apple

I'm not an Apple fanboi by any stretch of the imagination, but for those that think Apple is hard to work on, I have this to say: "Microsoft Surface Pro"

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Linux

Re: Apple

but for those that think Apple is hard to work on, I have this to say: "Microsoft Surface Pro?"

FTFY.

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There was a Gov Petition to try and sort this shit out with MS and Win 10 - I was surprised it didn't get many votes, either there are a lot more sheep than I originally thought or just not enough people were aware of it !

https://www.change.org/p/the-electonic-frontier-foundation-have-the-eff-investigate-microsoft-for-malicious-practices-regarding-windows-10

Wow only 5,851 votes - This is really sad, so many sheep here in UK !!!!

I am sure we have a lot more intelligent people that were just unaware of this petition, but just how many I am clueless !

I am happy to see the French going after MS, but so sad that even after Brexit the UK population just have bury their heads in the sand attitude !

What does it say for the future, maybe we deserve the new Stalin and her Stasi followers to rule us !

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Anonymous Coward

It might have done better if it hadn't been linked to the EFF nut jobs.

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Petition?

First people have to know about it... not easy when you are proposing something that would make it harder for NSA and GCHQ (aka May) to check your underwear.

Second, even if people did know about it and it was supported it is even less likely to actually make any difference to the government and ensure they act than the Brexit vote (which has admittedly claimed one PM to be replaced by a PrimeIntrusiveTyrant...) Certainly all those that voted in the recent referendum must share one disappointment, whether you backed it or not seeing the government just plain ignore you is really p*** poor in a 'democracy'

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FAIL

change.org

The only government that pays attention to Change.org is the People's Republic of San Serriffe (and possible Portland city council). It's just a way for lazy people on the Internet to pretend they made a difference.

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So far Redmond is staying silent on the issue. ®

What is this "Redmond" you speak about? It looks like a fly-speck on a geographic map of the world.

Does anyone believe that Redmond is in control of its destiny anymore? Perhaps back in the days when Gates stole PCDOS to create the bastards that became MS DOS/Windows.

Now the Redmond empire is insinuated throughout the money-markets, the industrial/military/research complexes, the desktops of your children, parents, and yea grandparents.

Eurocrats and well-meaning tech-crats can wish for something different, but until google takes over, we'll still need to pay some tokens (me, my MS Mouse).

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Meh

Re: So far Redmond is staying silent on the issue. ®

The Slate Tabs, the Azure cloud ops, Xbox sort of, and the O365 ventures seem to be okay. Do not count them out just because they completely and utterly fucked up Windows 10 Desktop Edition for Suckers and Other Morons Who Thought They Got Something For Nothing. No one is complaining about Win10 Core on the Raspberry Pi! So there's some "silverlight" lining the clouds, as it were.

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"Microsoft will release an updated Privacy Statement"?? How about Microsoft get rid of Satya Nadella and perhaps hire someone else who has the vision and the skills to lead this company. Nadella is a joke, compared to Steve Balmer. Even Balmer didn't have this many missteps and failures on his watch.

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