back to article Facebook ‘glitch’ that deleted the Philando Castile shooting vid: It was the police – sources

The deadly shooting of 32-year-old Philando Castile by a cop during a routine traffic stop in Minnesota on Wednesday just got murkier. Multiple sources have told The Register that police removed video footage of Castile's death from Facebook, potentially tampering with evidence. Castile, his girlfriend Diamond Reynolds, and …

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: disturbing

          The cop was not calm. Seemed to be completely in a panic.

          At the moment the victim seemed to pass away the the cop screamed "FUCK!"...... "I told him not to di it!" And you could still hear him screaming expletives through the rest of the video.

          I got the impression that he knew he had screwed up.

          I feel like saying that he seemed completely unprofessional and out of his depth, but I can't because I have no idea of what it is like to be in his shoes.

          But I'd say he'd have a tough time defending killing a man with his partner and her child in the car before he had sight of any gun. (apparently victim had told him he had a licensed concealed weapon before shooting and cop then asked for ID)

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: disturbing

            If you ask for something and then the person reaches to get that thing, you have to be pretty thick to assume it must be a gun. Oddly the US police seems to be full of these panicking trigger happy basket cases. Unsuitable for police work.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: disturbing

              Nah, not really, all US police are trained by forcibly watching Shane on repeat.

              'You all saw him, he had a gun..'

          2. Tim Jenkins

            Re: disturbing

            "...apparently victim had told him he had a licensed concealed weapon before shooting and cop then asked for ID..."

            I'm wondering if that was the cause right there; person in car announces to officer that 'I have a gun' or something similar (meaning 'I have a legally carried concealed weapon')*, while reaching for permit/licence, but officer hears the one word 'gun', sees the movement, draws and fires. Doesn't make the event any less tragic, doesn't mean racism wasn't a factor, but possibly worth considering.

            *There are lots of tips online about dealing with a traffic stop while posessing a legal weapon:

            "The following phrase is commonly recommended “Officer, I want to let you know that I have a concealed carry permit in this state and am currently have one on my person. How would you like me to proceed?” Notice we said ‘have one on my person’. This is very important, as the last thing you want is another officer coming up on the other side of your vehicle and the first thing he hears is GUN."

            http://concealednation.org/2013/07/traffic-stop-while-carrying-concealed-what-to-do-if-youre-pulled-over/

            1. Naughtyhorse

              Re: Bit of a curve ball....

              Open your mind REAL wide...

              this will blow you away....

              it's amazing that none thought of it before...

              what if members of the public didn't have access to firearms?

              yeah, i know it would never work.....

              1. NotWorkAdmin

                Re: Bit of a curve ball....

                The cop was clearly not qualified to be holding a firearm. That being said, an argument could be made as to which gun killed the poor guy if him having a firearm prompted the officer to shoot him.

      1. Michael Strorm

        Tech literacy is superficial; I *wouldn't* expect the police to understand that

        "you'd hope the police would understand that once it's on facebook odds are that it has been duplicated for 'backup' purposes and is recoverable."

        What makes you think they understand that? Stereotyping of the US police aside, I still wouldn't expect them to be notably more competent with technology than anyone else.

        Plenty of people out there think deleting something in Windows literally deletes it beyond recovery. Some people even believe moving something to the recycling bin does the trick(!) It's not that likely they'd understand Facebook's storage setup. I suspect that even if they roped in one of their colleagues who considers himself an "expert" in technology because he knows all about apps and always has the latest smartphone, there's no guarantee that he'd be aware of this.

        (tl;dr version of following rant- Understanding of the superficial aspects of modern digital technology is widespread these days. Understanding of even the most basic aspects of the underpinnings is far less so.)

        I've said it before on several occasions, but don't be fooled by the apparent huge increase in literacy surrounding digital technology in recent years. It's true that the man on the street is comfortable with (and generally obsessed with) computers and digitally-powered gizmos in a way that only geeks were fifteen to twenty years ago. Everyone likes to consider themselves a "geek" now, it's cool.

        I know how to set up and connect to a wireless network; look, it's in this Android menu!

        But while everyone's rushing out to buy the latest boys-toy smartphone and knows all the hot apps to go on it, ask yourself this. How many of them really understand (or even *care* about understanding) even the most fundamental aspects of the underlying technology?

        Case in point. If you asked a random sample of the general population- or even of the boys-toys gadget technophiles- to explain what "digital" *actually* meant at a basic technical level, how many of them do you think could give a proper answer? How many would think it was probably something to do with computers, a synonym for shiny modern technology or for online communications? (#)

        I rest my case. (##)

        (#) Hint; why do you think it effectively *has* become that synonym in general use, such that the Compact Disc- a system whose original selling point *was* that it was ******* digital is contrasted with "digital" (i.e. modern, online) methods of listening to music. Oh, I can buy it in digital form or on DVD? Would that be a ******* analogue DVD then? Let's be honest; most people probably don't *care* about things like this- what digital means, etc.- even if it's more fundamental than some aspect of their shiny, shiny gizmo.

        (##) No more evidence needed, but ask yourself how many people could explain even the most basic structure of how the Internet is set up and the principles of its operation, and how many tech "literate" people really know which numbers to punch into which box, or how to select a WiFi network on their Android phone. Ask them what the difference is between the world wide web and the Internet itself.... etc.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Evidence

    WTF? Courts are considering banning people from collecting evidence of possible criminal wrong doing?

    Astonishingly this sounds like the courts trying to protect their own. If they are trying to protect people's lives then maybe they should start a program to educate the general public about the dangers of viewing videos out of context as in this case where we don't actually see what happened in the lead up to the shooting - we just have running commentary from a distraught young lady who seemed more interested in documenting the wrong doing that trying to convince the cop to save her boyfriend's life. It doesn't make sense without the context

    1. solo

      Re: Evidence

      ..young lady who seemed more interested in documenting the wrong..

      The young lady might have been more interested in keeping calm so that the cop doesn't shoot her or her daughter as well. I can't say for sure as I couldn't gather courage to see the video after reading about it.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: Evidence

        As mentioned above it's quite normal for some peole to be business like and cool headed in a crisis especially if they have a responsobility (her daughter), many successful survivors of incidents if you read about it, describe being very focuseed while the stress was happening, it's a useful if maybe odd to outside observer reaction.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: Evidence

          In the video, the woman believes her man to have *only* been shot in the arm, as he's still alive (but being very quiet and obviously covered in blood).

          However, during the video he just, slips away, and she does start to freak out a bit at that point, even though she's obviously making a huge effort to stay calm.

          It was heartbreaking to watch to be honest.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Evidence

        "I can't say for sure as I couldn't gather courage to see the video after reading about it."

        The victim has been blurred out. It's relatively safe to watch. Or just listen to if you prefer.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

    Its not just Police killing blacks, its the whole gun issue. The Black / White issue is just the sharp end of the reality stick! How long before America gets-all-medieval-on-your-ass and ends up Amerifrica: Kenyans' terror of police death squads:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36733808

    And why not... The country is run by old-money white dynasties. Blacks get zero breaks with affordable education and healthcare nowhere to be seen. Its all a 101-Hyper-Exercise in Hypocrisy, because hatred for socialism obviously doesn't exclude bailing-out banks & car makers etc.

    Never mind all the other generous grants and lucrative incentives for mega-corps that often get snuck into unrelated bills at the last minute. Welcome to TISA / TTIP / TTP every day in our do-nothing Congress! Have a nice day 'no say' passengers!

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

      It's not guns. It's culture, or perhaps more properly culture CLASH. I mean, look at Switzerland. They seems to carry enough discipline to keep more guns around and still maintain a low crime rate. Then you have far east countries like Japan that can seemingly trust their government enough to keep things in order such that they can get away with tight gun regulations and not be up in arms over it.

      Is it the independent streak? The innate distrust of government dating from its origins? Something about the US just seems to make things turn ugly when it comes to public-private relationships. And some of it is so ingrained that people would rather go nuclear than cooperate.

      1. solo

        Re: it is not the guns

        Not being from US, I cannot say for sure. But I can feel the fear BOTH the men might have. NRA says everyone should have firearms but they don't let people know that firing the first bullet takes a lot of courage and confusion, especially if you have your loved ones on your side. The lady could also pull up the guns but instead chose to use his phone.

        It is also important to understand the fear that cops feel everyday on road checkpoints where anybody could fire at him asking papers. Yes, it happens. A split-second decision is what we are forcing on him.

        So, there are guns on both the sides, it is just how easy to get away with the killing.

        1. roytrubshaw
          Unhappy

          Re: it is not the guns

          "It is also important to understand the fear that cops feel everyday on road checkpoints where anybody could fire at him asking papers."

          At this point one wonders why take the risk of pulling someone over for what seems like (to my UK ears at least) an extremely trivial matter.

          The NRA apparently wants to increase gun ownership, which will lead inevitably to more situations where people (the police included) will be in fear of their lives and will shoot at the slightest hint of increased danger. To quote an article from Cracked (http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-stupidest-arguments-against-gun-control/) "... this is a supersaturated solution of bullets crystallizing out into gravestones."

          1. cantankerous swineherd Silver badge

            Re: it is not the guns

            us cops are run as a profit centre, fines, more fines, private jail all grist to the mill.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: it is not the guns

            Extend beyond the NRA and look at the slightly crazy fringe that insist the 2nd amendment is so that we can "Fight back against the government when the oppress us".

            Two black men get gunned down by police. The next day, a bunch of cops get gunned down.

            Logical, but tragic, progression. The standard whitewashed wet dream is that a bunch of hyper patriotic good 'ole boys are a backstop for liberty, mom, and apple pie against some imaginary boogyman that rises to power. More realistic is that if "we" feel that we're being killed systematically by "them" then at some point an armed rebellion is warranted.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: it is not the guns

              ""Fight back against the government when the oppress us".

              Well, look what happened in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Home field advantage seem to count for quite a bit in a civil war...

        2. CustardGannet

          "...the fear that cops feel everyday..."

          This is how they sell it to us - aren't police brave, protecting our liberties etc etc.

          But bin-men (garbage collectors) are *more than twice* as likely to be killed whilst on duty, and many other professions are even worse - see http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/.

          I doubt there will be a full military funeral for the next binnie to get crushed by a lorry.

          1. UncleZoot

            Re: "...the fear that cops feel everyday..."

            What utter rubbish. Anyone that plays in traffic as do trash collectors are bound to be struck by inattentive drivers. I didn't see listed tow truck drivers.

            Bloomberg for the source says it all with his anti-gun agenda. Old Mikie is protected 24/7 by armed guards, so he himself has no need for a gun. Diane Finstein, the anti-gun senator from Commiefornia has a concealed carry permit in addition to security provided by the US Capitol police.

            Where I live, there have been three tow truck drivers killed by inattentive persons driving into the flashing lights of the truck. It's such a problem that motor vehicle laws were enacted to require you to move over or slow down when in the proximity of a truck.

            The next time you need someone to respond for a theft or domestic dispute, call your local trash man instead of the police.

      2. Spanners Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

        Is it the independent streak? The innate distrust of government dating from its origins? Something about the US just seems to make things turn ugly...

        Or was it that the victim was black? You mentioned Switzerland and Japan. Neither of those are so internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          "You mentioned <snip> Japan. Neither of those are so internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery."

          You, Sir, have some reading to do.

          1. John Savard Silver badge

            Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

            But precisely because Japan doesn't allow much private gun ownership, they won't be having much in the way of incidents of this nature involving their ethnic Korean minority.

        2. Naughtyhorse

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          japan?

          internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery.

          Orly?

          come with me, lets take a ride on the Burma railroad and speak to some of the relatives of the 6 million or so Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese slaughtered by the imperial army,

          not really disagreeing, just saying.

          same for a lesser extent goes for the swiss mercenaries, did i say mercs, i meant army... by which I mean everyone in Switzerland!

          fact is there is no one in the world qualified to cast that first stone.

        3. Lotaresco

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          "Or was it that the victim was black? You mentioned Switzerland and Japan. Neither of those are so internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery."

          Hmm... I suspect you don't know much about either place. I lived and worked in Switzerland and it was the most racist and most discriminatory country that I have lived in. Yes the Swiss are all superficially charming and civilised but you don't have to dig deep to discover the racism. The treatment of non-Swiss "guest workers" is appalling. There's even discrimination among Swiss nationals with the German speakers taking a dim view of the French, Italian and Romansh speaking cantons.

          Japan keeps quiet about its problems but race discrimination is common. For example Koreans are regarded as "undermen" despite being ethnically indistinguishable from Japanese. Families in Japan will engage private detectives to research a boyfriend's family to ensure that their daughter is not going to marry into the family (however many generations removed) of a "garlic eater". Japan also has a very poor record on slavery both domestically (burakumin, eta, hinin, nuhi) and internationally about 10 million Chinese, 10 million Javanese, close to a million Koreans were pressed into slavery.

      3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

        Don't the Swiss have locked up guns for the event of war? Not carrying around hand guns.

        1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          > Don't the Swiss have locked up guns ...

          I think they have rifles, not guns.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

            "I think they have rifles, not guns."

            A rifle is a type of gun. I think you are thinking of hand gun.

            But it really doesn't matter much, apart from clarifying that the Swiss definately don't run around "packing" like some seem to think.

            1. Androgynous Cow Herd

              Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

              I have both...

              This is my rifle.

              This is my gun.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

        >I mean, look at Switzerland.

        ...figures are now lower than in France, Germany & Austria - was down to 1 weapon per 4 people in 2014 and has fallen steadily since. US figures are contentious but there's general agreement guns outnumber people.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

      Agree 100%

      After a trip to cali 3 years ago and seeing how segregated whites/blacks were, and the hate between them and against the government and the rich etc I said they're going to have another civil war, its only a question of when.

      If you let hate and fear filled people own guns, they will use them, then the anger spreads and others use their guns. I've no idea how they get out of this death spiral.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Culture Clash...... ???

      ~ Sure, blame Culture. The spin-doctor's answer to excuse and whitewash everything....

      ~ Look at the neighbors... Canadians own lots of guns and they're not like that. So what's the difference? Could it be that the USA's brand of unchecked-capitalism is at fault?

      ~ Look to the south and the path the US is likely heading i.e. Mexico (Mass graves of protesting students etc). Too close for comfort? Take India then!

      ~ Widespread violence becomes acceptable when there's incredible inequality, legitimized corruption, and money for social programs gets routinely stolen by corporations & the elite (Think SA-Zuma etc)...

      1. Preston Munchensonton
        WTF?

        Re: Culture Clash...... ???

        Could it be that the USA's brand of unchecked-capitalism is at fault?

        So, violence between police and black people is breaking out because you think that the US government doesn't regulate the economy enough? Likely the dumbest comment ever made, and this is in a world with Donald Trump running for US President.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: Culture Clash...... ???

          I really think it comes down to some degree to cultural meme's.

          How was the west won?

          How did you defend the range?

          How did you fight of the opressive goverment?

          What's the great equalizer?

          Now in modern day America.

          If there is a problem whats the first thing that seems to be reached for to solve the problem?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "So, violence between police and black people is breaking out because"....

      "....you think that the US government doesn't regulate the economy enough?"

      ~ Would there be less violence between blacks and the police if there were more opportunities for blacks? That's the question... If you don't think it matters, congratulations go and join white Congress...

      ~ Adding social programs (subsided education / free healthcare) has nothing to do with regulating the economy anyway genius. That's Fed Policy / Treasury / SEC oversight which does little to help blacks pay-day loans...

      ~ There is definitely less racial tension between blacks and whites when more social programs exist. Example: Colombia... Its a type of insurance to stop people being disadvantaged and falling down...

      ~ Poverty and inequality is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not just racism alone. Racism always blossoms anyway when there's extreme poverty and gang lifestyle conflict, as it fuels resentment between all colors & classes!

      1. Preston Munchensonton

        Re: "So, violence between police and black people is breaking out because"....

        Would there be less violence between blacks and the police if there were more opportunities for blacks? That's the question... If you don't think it matters, congratulations go and join white Congress...

        You assume, incorrectly, that somehow regulators could make economic decisions better than individuals. Instead, the regulations that are in place (e.g. minimum wages) have the very real effect of exacerbating the opportunities for unskilled youth, leading to enormously high unemployment among blacks and hispanics. I would love to put all those people to work, but can't by law.

        Adding social programs (subsided education / free healthcare) has nothing to do with regulating the economy anyway genius. That's Fed Policy / Treasury / SEC oversight which does little to help blacks pay-day loans...

        Again, very very poor understanding of political economy. Education and health care have a strong impact on productivity. If you think that there's no connection there, then you misunderstand macroeconomics.

        There is definitely less racial tension between blacks and whites when more social programs exist. Example: Colombia... Its a type of insurance to stop people being disadvantaged and falling down...

        Show me a country with the heterogeniety of the US where this is true. Columbia is far less heterogenous than the US and it's not even close. Nothing about social programs provides insurance against violence. Venezuela disproves your point handily.

        Poverty and inequality is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not just racism alone. Racism always blossoms anyway when there's extreme poverty and gang lifestyle conflict, as it fuels resentment between all colors & classes!

        I never implied that racism is the root cause. But, anyone who has an understanding of US history would never just so simply attribute the violence seen in the last two years to just poverty and inequality. Things are certainly more complex than just simple racism or class struggle.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I would love to put all those people to work, but can't by law."

      ......Whose Trump now! Nice condescending elitist tone... Meanwhile, US minimum wage is absolute poverty compared to other developed nations especially Europe.

      ~ "the violence seen in the last two years to just poverty and inequality...."

      ......You quote me but then completely ignore the point! I'm saying the 3-pronged devil of 'POVERTY and INEQUALITY is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not RACISM alone. Racism always blossoms anyway when there's extreme poverty and gang lifestyle conflict, as it fuels resentment between all colors & classes!'

      ~ "Show me a country with the heterogeniety of the US where this is true. Columbia is far less heterogenous than the US and it's not even close."

      ......They're much closer than you think, especially for the purposes of discussing this topic. I live in Bogota, before that I lived in Chicago. Diversity seems much the same, but largely without the cop kill squads or the rising murder rate (up again in ChiTown).

      ~ "Venezuela disproves your point handily."

      ......How? It couldn't be further away from the reality we're discussing here. Go and read some articles on Chavez's toxic policies.. Otherwise its not relevant......

      ~ "Education and health care have a strong impact on productivity. If you think that there's no connection there, then you misunderstand macroeconomics."

      ...... Economics is still hanging its head in shame from 2008, so get off your high horse! I'm saying that the funds to improve quality of life for blacks wouldn't even register as a blip, compared to the debt hoarded by the Fed on its balance sheet. So much of economics is debunkable anyway. Just look at the trickle-down-effect. Even Greenspan and Buffet now acknowledge that its rubbish!

      ~ "very poor understanding of political economy... "

      Stop kidding yourself, you can't even spell Colombia correctly! Plus, there's no great insights or solutions being offered by you, just more pseudo-academic / political noise. The kind people are so sick of worldwide!

      1. Preston Munchensonton
        Mushroom

        Re: "I would love to put all those people to work, but can't by law."

        Last reply, since this cowardly pinhead can't read and can't use logic.

        Whose Trump now! Nice condescending elitist tone... Meanwhile, US minimum wage is absolute poverty compared to other developed nations especially Europe.

        My comment on employing cheap labor wasn't condescension. If I had the opportunity, I would love to employ cheap labor, for many reasons that you clearly wouldn't understand. There's no higher form of racial discrimination anywhere in the world than minimum wage legislation. In the US, it's discriminates against at least 15 million young blacks and hispanics who can't sell their labor.

        You quote me but then completely ignore the point! I'm saying the 3-pronged devil of 'POVERTY and INEQUALITY is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not RACISM alone.

        That's not the sense that your statement conveyed. I would contend that there's more than just poverty, inequality, and racism at play and you're either in denial or ignorant for thinking human behavior can be explained so simply.

        I live in Bogota, before that I lived in Chicago. Diversity seems much the same, but largely without the cop kill squads or the rising murder rate (up again in ChiTown).

        Fortunately, the US is not just Chicago. The studies from Fearon and Alesina both have Colombia ranked more homogenous than the US. In fact, Fearon put Columbia in the top 10 overall and the US in the bottom 50%. It may not seem like it, but your assertion still doesn't hold water sociologically or economically.

        How? It couldn't be further away from the reality we're discussing here. Go and read some articles on Chavez's toxic policies.. Otherwise its not relevant

        You brought up more social programs as a deterrent. Venezuela is the poster child for letting that run rampant to the point where the government thinks it's understands how to price gasoline, toliet paper and other products better than individuals in a free market (or freeish market). As Maggie would say (roughly), the problem with socialism that is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

        Economics is still hanging its head in shame from 2008, so get off your high horse!

        Economics isn't hanging its head at all. You don't understand the causes of the 2008 crash (all of which derive directly from US government intervention in the economy), so don't bother.

        I'm saying that the funds to improve quality of life for blacks wouldn't even register as a blip, compared to the debt hoarded by the Fed on its balance sheet.

        So many fallacies, so little time. Poor people don't need social programs. They need money. Government hand outs like the EITC in the US are better because of their lower dead weight costs and lack of entrapment to the very people they intend to help. Again, so many poor black youth unable to get a job and get on-the-job training to make a career for themselves, simply because employers can't employ them at the rate that corresponds to their productivity. You really should study the minimum wage more before responding.

        So much of economics is debunkable anyway. Just look at the trickle-down-effect. Even Greenspan and Buffet now acknowledge that its rubbish!

        Lovely generalization that doesn't mean or prove anything. Given the high levels of US government intervention since the 1930s, it's astounding to me that Americans continue to fight through it all in pursuit of a better life. Someday, that will stop and the world will be quite poorer after that.

        Stop kidding yourself, you can't even spell Colombia correctly! Plus, there's no great insights or solutions being offered by you, just more pseudo-academic / political noise. The kind people are so sick of worldwide!

        Yes, thank you for the spelling lesson. You did finally manage to score one.

        My great insights aren't great because they're simple. I'm a classical liberal and proud of it. I can point to rapidly approaching eradication of absolute poverty on a global scale directly due to the principles of free markets and capitalism. You on the other hand can't tell the difference between crony capitalism (like the Too-Big-to-Fail banks, NHS contractors, and the like) and free-market capitalism. I'm not kidding myself about how things are and how we got here. But your delusion won't go away based on any words I say, so go back to your pod in the Matrix and try to find some kind of joy in your life. Doesn't sound to me like you have much at all.

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    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "employers can't employ them at the rate that (equals) their productivity"

      ~ "employers can't employ them at the rate that (equals) their productivity"

      You'd prefer to hire them at a buck-fifty I guess... Its the old lets-chase-down-wages argument...? Make a better case here, give some examples. You're not articulating anything!

      ========================================

      ~ "more than just poverty, inequality, and racism at play"

      ......Sure, but what are they? You fail to add anything new here either...

      ========================================

      ~ "Venezuela is the poster child"

      ....For self-destructive all-out anti-American policy making... But Venezuela is a bad example, an outlier. I'm just talking about basic social programs, health care & free education. But this is unthinkable 'intervention' to you...

      ========================================

      ~ "As Maggie would say (roughly)..."

      ....We have to deal with Thatcher now, give me Reagan at least. You run out of other people's money just as quickly bailing-out banks. Maybe you didn't follow Ireland's predicament where billions of debt were transferred onto the heads of every man, woman and child... How does someone as right as yourself view 'socializing-loses, privatizing-profits' anyway....???

      ========================================

      ~ "causes of the 2008 crash..derive from US government intervention"

      ....WTF? If there had been more intervention in the form of stricter regulation and not just lite-touch oversight, we might have escaped the economic shock and subsequent Japanese 'lost decade'...

      ========================================

      "Poor people don't need social programs. They need money"

      ....Economists argue that what the poor really need are better opportunities / level playing field.... But the US elite are adept at blocking that!

      ========================================

      ~ "eradication of absolute poverty... due to the principles of free markets"

      ....Technological progress has been more key than economic policy making. Plus, it hasn't come without costs to both the environment and people...

      ========================================

      ~ "cowardly pinhead can't read / use logic....try to find joy in your life"

      ....You know the old adage, if you have to resort to personal attacks then you've already lost....

      ========================================

      ....Back on topic: The sad thing, is that cities in Central & South America are generally becoming safer in comparison to their sister US cities. So much wealth, but what good does it do America anymore? This isn't progress...

  3. Ole Juul Silver badge

    Not that laws matter in the USA

    "They took my phone. They took over my Facebook."

    The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) was enacted by Congress in 1986 and has recently been applied to similar cases. Typically having knowingly accessed a computer without authorisation or exceeding authorised access. Being federal it carries some pretty serious jail time for even the most trivial offence.

    1. postalsusie

      Re: Not that laws matter in the USA

      Please tell that to all the LEGAL MONITORING programs that pay Microsoft a commission to use their already installed components, so that their program install is small and easy, and in turn for paying microsoft, it then favors that monitoring software by NOT putting it on the RED FLAG list that microsoft sends to all its antivirus software friends/clients.

      (If you dont keep your payments up to MS, they remove you from the SPECIAL EXEMPT LIST)

      That results in spyware, monitoring software, tracking & reporting software NOT BEING FOUND BY YOUR ANTIVIRUS SOFTWARE SCANS.

      Next time your A/v software updates, look for that updated list in your hard drive.

      And FYI, and I quote (from the Original owners of Zonealarm firewall) when their tech support wrote me and said " Firewalls are NOT ALLOWED to police all connections on your computer."

  4. David Nash Silver badge
    WTF?

    I can see why they want to confiscate people's phones in such cases, but do they have any legal basis for doing so?

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Yes, evidence. And a warrant isn't always necessary if the scene is deemed a pursuit (or they can justify it before a judge after the fact: an "exigent circumstance" seizure).

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        If it's anything like the UK there will be a whole slew of reasons why a warrant might not be required (protecting evidence, protecting people, protecting property, pursuing a criminal).

    2. Lee D Silver badge

      Confiscation for the purposes of preservation of evidence would be okay, so long as it was all signed off and sealed properly.

      Going into her Facebook account and pressing Delete or even adjusting the visibility? That's illegal tampering of evidence even if no "direct harm" was done by doing so.

      Just pressing the buttons on a logged-in phone could be construed as such, as you then have NO idea what MIGHT have been in there before the tamperer got to the it - cop or bystander (and if it's a modern phone with encryption and flash, there may be no way to recover whatever you deleted, or even a way to tell that you deleted something).

      It was deemed illegal to delete photos from the cameras, or even force photographers in public places to delete them by making a scary policeman do it themselves. This is exactly the same but happening immediately after a potential murder / attempted murder of a police officer (if there were genuinely at threat of death from the guy). It's a lot more serious.

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Meh

        Well yes, in this particular case, it was evidence tampering.

        However the original question posed by David Nash was a hypothetical one seeking to find out if in general the police had to have a warrant. Both myself and Charles 9 were answering by pointing out that the police do not always need a warrant.

  5. s. pam
    Headmaster

    What man soweth he reaps

    Having lived in the US for a while, sadly I'm not at all surprised. The US police seem to think they live in some form of an immunity reality distortion cloud. The police are retaliating for the 30 years of drive-by shooting nonsense by the drug dealers and the Blacks are fed up by the predominantly white officers shooting them.

    Dallas is likely to be just the start, the Black Americans are really fed up. Farcebook be damned for the "accidental" whatever bollox. The US could quickly become a no-go zone for holiday makers if this ratchets up 1 or 2 levels on the old Vu meter!

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