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back to article FBI ends second iPhone fight after someone, um, 'remembers' the PIN

For the second time, the FBI has dropped a legal attempt to force Apple to unlock an iPhone at the last minute. Earlier this month, the FBI backed away from the high-profile San Bernardino case the day before it was due in court by claiming it had paid a third party (apparently $1.2m) to unlock the phone. This time it's a …

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    1. Velv
      Reply Icon
      Headmaster

      Re: Some thoughts

      If they're your disks and you refuse to comply then you're first person involvement.

      If Seagate* were compelled to provide access to the content of your disks then they'd be a third party involvement similar to Apple.

      *or your manufacturer of choice.

      2 0 Reply
      1. Bloakey1
        Reply Icon

        Re: Some thoughts

        <snip>

        "If Seagate* were compelled to provide access to the content of your disks then they'd be a third party involvement similar to Apple."

        <snip>

        Ahh but if they were Seagate disks they would have died so you would need to do data recovery on them and even then they probably would not work.

        I hate Seagate, had another 2 Terabyte Barracuda disk go in a Raid Arrray this week. I patched the whole with a nice WD jobby and have disks to hand to patch the others as they invariably fail.

        0 0 Reply
    2. Zolko Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Some thoughts

      the only people who think the FBI has a case here are those who stand to gain from Government over reach.

      actually, I don't understand:

      If I'm a convicted and dead murderer, and the FBI finds in my house a vault that they want to open, would the manufacturer of the vault have to help the FBI open the vault ? Suppose it has a numerical lock, which they cannot open since I'm dead and they don't know the code, but the manufacturer knows a way to disable the built-in self-destruct mechanism so the FBI can brute-force themselves in, would they have to help ?

      Is that any different than the Apple-vs-FBI case ? Keyword being convicted murder not merely accused.

      1 4 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Some thoughts

        Two things.

        1) The Fbi can just 'hammer' their way in

        2) If they are asking the manufacturer for the defeat device to allow them to get in any vault of that type (and it's a popular vault and the manufacture has made claims to how secure it is) which they can then just use at will on anybodys vault (innocent, accused or guilty) then it is a bit of a different conundrum, is it not? Would the manufacturer be happy to help knowing that they can't claim their vaults are now secure?

        If an FBI agent sells those details to a contact in the underworld for a large sum of money, is the manufacturer still happy to have helped?

        0 1 Reply
        1. Zolko Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Some thoughts

          Would the manufacturer be happy to help knowing that they can't claim their vaults are now secure?

          whether they would be happy or not is not the question: if they can, help, don't they have to ? And anyway, if they can help crack the vault means that their device is unsecure, independently from they providing the help or not. In Apple's case someone else provided the help, meaning it was possible.

          0 1 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Some thoughts

      "Surely the only people who think the FBI has a case here are those who stand to gain from Government over reach. Everyone else thinks its appalling."

      You forgot the huge number of people that are unable to think anything sensible and will believe any conspiracy crap.... terrorists made me pregnant, aliens stole my job, immigrants are makeing me fat....

      0 0 Reply
    4. energystar
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      Re: Some thoughts

      Privacy is a word easily mistaken, as freedom. Feudal lords used to make from THEIR feud a PRIVATE playground. And LOTS OF TIMES reclaimed the King any attempt to meddle into THEIR private joys. Capicci?

      0 0 Reply
      1. Cynic_999
        Reply Icon

        Re: Some thoughts

        "

        Privacy is a word easily mistaken, as freedom. Feudal lords used to make from THEIR feud a PRIVATE playground. And LOTS OF TIMES reclaimed the King any attempt to meddle into THEIR private joys. Capicci?

        "

        Classic logical fallacy. The fact that freedom requires privacy does NOT mean that privacy ensures freedom. Although the example you gave did not prove your point at all - the feudal lords were in that case perfectly free. Capicci?

        0 0 Reply
        1. energystar
          Reply Icon
          Joke

          Point for the cynic...

          As far as the King lacked the jewels...

          0 0 Reply
        2. energystar
          Reply Icon
          Pint

          Re: Some thoughts

          'Privacy' is a word easily mistaken, as 'freedom' [word].

          0 0 Reply
  2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    "Remembered" the PIN

    I guess where their finger-nails had been finally healed ...

    3 0 Reply
    1. Gotno iShit Wantno iShit
      Reply Icon

      Re: "Remembered" the PIN

      Perhaps he didn't remember, perhaps he's been trying to be helpful but couldn't. I wouldn't remember many of my passwords without a keyboard to look at, the pattern is the key in part. Perhaps since he's a drug dealer, an emotive bad guy, the feds have let the case go to court in the hope of getting popular support for their precedent. Now they've realised that isn't going to happen perhaps they've lent him the keyboard he's asked for all along.

      1 0 Reply
      1. SolidSquid
        Reply Icon

        Re: "Remembered" the PIN

        Maybe they just didn't bother asking him? "Oh, there was a mistake in the records, we thought we'd discussed it with him but it was actually another case got mixed up"

        0 0 Reply
      2. Alan Brown Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: "Remembered" the PIN

        "Perhaps he didn't remember, perhaps he's been trying to be helpful but couldn't."

        Perhaps he's been negotiating witless protection.

        Exposing his contacts (and being seen to have done so voluntarily) will put a big fat price on his head - probably with a double bonus if it's delivered in a box to the person who wants the job done.

        1 0 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Remembered" the PIN

          Perhaps he's been negotiating witless protection.

          Yes, he definitely needs that. Witness protection, not so much :)

          2 0 Reply
        2. Laura Kerr
          Reply Icon

          Re: "Remembered" the PIN

          Maybe he remembered after he'd fallen down the stairs, or when the Feds threatened to add a rap of 'putting teeth marks on a law enforcement official's boots'.

          1 0 Reply
          1. DavCrav
            Reply Icon

            Re: "Remembered" the PIN

            "Maybe he remembered after he'd fallen down the stairs"

            ----------------

            'Of course, you'd have nothing to fear from us,' said Vimes. 'Although you might trip on your way down the stairs to the cells.'

            'There's no stairs down to your cells!'

            'Stairs can be arranged.'

            3 0 Reply
  3. gollux

    They didn't like the looks of that legal "wrench" being swung around. Their lawyer had a little discussion about "plea bargain" and "good behavior" and the reality of accepting lesser charges.

    0 0 Reply
  4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    And what was found on the phone now it's unlocked? Will we be told?

    3 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Presumably Russel Crowe broke a chair into its constituent pieces before breaking down the door to the interrogation room?

    (Yes, I so want this to happen IRL.)

    1 0 Reply
  6. Tom 7

    Can we have an update to the phone OS?

    So when pin2 is entered instead of the real pin then it wipes and locks the phone. So under pressure from a terrorist to reveal the information on your phone you can just wipe it. If it inconveniences the FBI at the same time as saving us from terrorists exploiting my phone then that's just tough.

    7 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Distress erase

      If you're being beaten by rubber hoses to force you to reveal your phone's password, and you give them your distress password that wipes it, I don't think you are going to like where things go next.

      I've always said I want my phone secure against government spying or the police being able to search it. But if it comes down to being forced to give it up in that way, I don't actually have anything on it that warrants taking a beating for.

      I'd much rather have a way of forcing a quick erasure during a distress situation while I still have control of my phone, rather than a distress password. Something like holding down both volume buttons and pressing firmly on the top of the screen with my thumb (I'm sure they could make the volume buttons activate 3D Touch sensitivity for this) for 5 seconds. I could do that quickly with my hand in my pocket in an emergency but wouldn't have to worry about doing it accidentally.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Tom 7
        Reply Icon

        Re: Distress erase

        If I'm being beaten by rubber hoses to force me to reveal my phone's password I'm already past the point of expecting to live in any kind of rational world. If my phones important enough for the hoses to come out I'm not expecting to live after the correct pin has been delivered.

        4 0 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Joke

          Re: Distress erase

          Enter the distress-erase PIN and Apple automatically replace the contents of your phone with that of the nearest FBI official.

          0 0 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Distress erase

            Then they'd get you for stealing whatever classified information it contains.

            Better for the contents of your phone to copied INTO the phone of the nearest FBI official, and then you can "confess" that he is the leader of your criminal organization and what is found on his phone will prove it!

            1 0 Reply
          2. Laura Kerr
            Reply Icon
            Thumb Up

            Re: Distress erase

            So close, but not quite a cigar.

            Enter the distress PIN and Apple automatically replaces the phone contents with completely innocuous stuff you've prepared in advance. Contacts, call history, browsing history, a few crap apps and games, photos, the lot.

            You've co-operated, so hopefully avoided the hosing, and the GestapoFBI can waste their time looking at your cat videos, food photos and fleabay purchases.

            0 0 Reply
  7. ma1010
    Big Brother

    Suddenly "Remembered" the PIN?

    "Well," said O'Brien, "it's just amazing how a little electricity, properly applied, can help restore one's memories, isn't it, Winston?"

    1 0 Reply
  8. PaulAb

    Finally....

    Now he's remembered his, could he help me remember mine, if it helps to get some attention in this matter - I am a violent drug lord with tendancies toward lying.

    I Thenkyow

    0 0 Reply
  9. Bloakey1

    British Police Take Another Approach

    With all this whoo hahh about apple and others fighting over phones, I thought I might share this with you. It is a valid approach and seems to have worked mighty well.

    http://tinyurl.com/hoeb8jw

    0 0 Reply
  10. Chris G

    Just in case

    You want to avoid a good hosing, try one of these; https://lwn.net/Articles/671744/

    Amnesty International among others have or are developing apps that can wipe your phone in a moment. Wipe your phone and then give the fuzz any password they want.

    Of course finding your phone squeaky clean mat annoy them too but at least they won't go bothering phone manufacturers.

    0 0 Reply

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