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back to article GCHQ is having problems meeting Osborne's 2020 recruitment target

Blighty's surveillance and security agency GCHQ is facing significant challenges in meeting the government's targets for recruitment over the next four years. Last year the chancellor promised that 1,900 new recruits would be hired by the intelligence agencies by 2020 – with the lion's share expected to head to GCHQ in …

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            1. Tom 7
              Reply Icon

              Re: Ethics - thermite

              I remember a relative in the US removing a concrete doorstep with dynamite obtained easily from a local hardware store when I was over there as a kid. From some shit I've been watching on TV it doesnt seem hard to get hold of the stuff there nowadays.

              0 0 Reply
        2. Alexander J. Martin
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          Joke

          Re: Ethics

          You may notice that all mentions of the El Reg warrant canary have been removed from the web.

          5 0 Reply
          1. Mark 85
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            Black Helicopters

            Re: Ethics

            I didn't think El Reg had a warrant canary. Or if they did, it was for about a day or so.

            1 0 Reply
        3. Captain DaFt
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          Re: Ethics

          "everyone who posts on this forum is already on a watchlist"

          Only one!?

          2 0 Reply
        4. Anonymous Coward
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          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Ethics

          '..everyone who posts on this forum is already on a watchlist'

          Hah, some of us were being watched long before the existence of El Reg..

          An ex-colleague was a member of the SDS and had, as he put it, quite an extensive 'history' with the USian alphabet soup agencies..

          In my case, I suppose out of habit, just in case, they're still maintaining a 'listening watch' on me (family and other connections being what they are, and all that..)

          With the tinfoil hat on, It could explain why the firewall on my phone crashed & burned yesterday at 16:30..

          3 1 Reply
          1. energystar
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            Re: Ethics

            "...It could explain why the firewall on my phone crashed & burned yesterday at 16:30."

            Well, fire do have silly effects on phones.

            0 0 Reply
        5. h4rm0ny
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          Re: Ethics

          >>"everyone who posts on this forum is already on a watchlist"

          Good. When everyone is on a watchlist, a watchlist is meaningless.

          2 0 Reply
      2. Someone_Somewhere
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        Re: Ethics

        Everyone who posts anything with the word 'watchlist' in it is on a watchlist.

        5 0 Reply
    2. Valeyard
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      Re: Ethics

      precisely. Who would want to join a terrorist organisation who works tirelessly against the welfare of the UK?

      jihadis and cybersecurity people who weren't good enough for the private sector

      7 2 Reply
      1. KeithR
        Reply Icon

        Re: Ethics

        "cybersecurity people who weren't good enough for the private sector"

        You were doing SO well until you wrote that shite I've italicised.

        Some of us Public Sector boys could run rings round most Private Sector skivers.

        11 4 Reply
        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Ethics

          > Some of us Public Sector boys could run rings round most Private Sector skivers.

          Indeed. I've been in both and my current Public Sector job is with some pretty sharp people. Plus, I like working for an organisation that's actually trying to do something useful rather than just trying to enrich a few already-rich people and banks..

          11 0 Reply
          1. Someone_Somewhere
            Reply Icon

            Re: Ethics

            > a few already-rich people and banks..

            What, like your employers' employers you mean?

            4 0 Reply
          2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Ethics @CrazyOldCatMan

            Indeed. I've been in both and my current Public Sector job is with some pretty sharp people. Plus, I like working for an organisation that's actually trying to do something useful rather than just trying to enrich a few already-rich people and banks.. .... CrazyOldCatMan

            Do you not realise, CrazyOldCatMan, the Public Sector job is sub-primarily to enrich a few already-rich people and banks. And if SIS/GCHQ do not realise that, then is that particular and peculiar Intelligence Community fundamentally lacking in that which is required to provide, monitor and mentor advanced creative commanding control systems leadership via remote virtually anonymous and practically autonomous leverage ....... and they will always be playing second fiddle to events which they are reacting to/stories which they have discovered and which may, or may not, be activated/self-actualising.

            Deny that words create, command and control and collapse worlds and be as a paying spectator in the Great Game and Great Games which abound and surround you.

            2 2 Reply
          3. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Ethics

            Indeed. I've been in both and my current Public Sector job is with some pretty sharp people. Plus, I like working for an organisation that's actually trying to do something useful rather than just trying to enrich a few already-rich people and banks..

            There are good people in the public sector and good people in the private sector. Given that there are people in both, this seems like a of an obvious thing to say.

            However, the crucial point is if you are the very best at your skill area in the public sector you will always earn less than you could in the private sector. This means that the percentages are skewed against the public sector. Not only do they need good people but they need good people willing and able to live on less money.

            One thing I dont agree with though is "trying to enrich a few already-rich people and banks." This appears to be the fundamental role of the current public sector.

            2 0 Reply
    3. Someone_Somewhere
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      Heads Up

      (Re: '..everyone who posts on this forum is already on a watchlist)

      (Re: Ethics)

      My WorldIP* has started reporting that DuckDuckGo is on an internal network - reverse DNS of ec2-54-229-105-92.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.

      So much for their not tracking us: what /they/ do is irrelevant if they're pumping everything through Amazon anyway - even if there are no analytics used, the AWS traffic is putting all your eggs in Amazon's basket poultry products supply chain (which /will/ be monitored, one way or another).

      And recently, I've started seeing my first ever alerts about DNS cache poisoning attacks (using 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4 and 4.2.2.1 - 4.2.2.6 over my normal 192.168.0.1 gateway/ISP DNS server addys)

      /sigh/

      Not saying which service I'm gonna be using now because I don't wanna give the bastards a break, but there /is/ still at least one search engine out there using a verifiable DNS - I suggest people look for it/a similarly verifiable one.

      * https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/worldip/?src=search

      1 0 Reply
      1. x 7
        Reply Icon

        Re: Heads Up

        "And recently, I've started seeing my first ever alerts about DNS cache poisoning attacks (using 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4 and 4.2.2.1 - 4.2.2.6 over my normal 192.168.0.1 gateway/ISP DNS server addys)"

        whats giving you the alerts?

        0 0 Reply
        1. Someone_Somewhere
          Reply Icon

          Re: Heads Up

          > whats giving you the alerts? <

          WorldIP.

          I've added a number of other DNS services to its list, which should help a /little/ bit, but its still disconcerting to see that either Google or Tier 3 is being subverted.*

          Or, possibly, my own ISP - in which case I'm hosed /whatever/ I do!

          0 0 Reply
          1. Someone_Somewhere
            Reply Icon

            Re: Heads Up

            Also got an 'unknown SSL error 443' when connecting to the user-supplied apps portal for my OS update service two days ago - first time ever I've seen /that/ for any OS I've used.

            Things are looky a trifle suspicious of late

            0 0 Reply
    4. Hans 1
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      Re: Ethics

      >I don't think I could bring myself to work for GCHQ with their current Big Brother "Everyone is a terrorist or paedophile" mentality.

      GCHQ is not about paedophiles, they do not care about "ordinary crime", they want to get intel on everybody, especially thought-terrorists ... people thinking 2 and 2 make 4 when, it's a fact, we all know 2 and 2 make 5.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Someone_Somewhere
        Reply Icon

        Re: people thinking 2 and 2 make 4 (Re: Ethics)

        https://hateandanger.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/looks-like-youve-had-a-bit-too-much-to-think-support-your-local-thought-police-dont-speak-out-or-question-closed-minds-stop-thought-crimes.jpg

        0 0 Reply
  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obvious

    What, noone wants to work for the baddies?

    11 0 Reply
    1. Tom 38
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      Re: Obvious

      Where I work (private sector, not security), we have display screens showing us motivational slides, news, internal job adverts etc all around the office. After Star Wars 7 came out, they put up a slide asking for us to deliver to HR talented people we knew at other companies, and they chose to have a picture of Darth Vader reprising the famous "Kitchener WANTS YOU" recruiting poster.

      It's like ".... so that means we're the Empire, right?"

      9 0 Reply
      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Obvious

        "motivational slides,"

        Don't you mean "demotivational". That's the effect of the insult-to-intelligence content normal in that sort of crap.

        8 0 Reply
        1. Someone_Somewhere
          Reply Icon

          Re: "demotivational"

          http://despair.com/collections/demotivators/products/motivation

          8 0 Reply
        2. Teiwaz
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          Re: Obvious Motivational

          First place I worked, motivational posters were posited, most people were all for it, until we actually got them and they were put up. People got tired of them inside the first day.

          They sound like a great idea in theory, but in practice, totally annoying and tiring to constantly look at.

          3 0 Reply
          1. Chris King
            Reply Icon

            Re: Obvious Motivational

            "They sound like a great idea in theory, but in practice, totally annoying and tiring to constantly look at".

            Then you discover the art of demotivational posters and start making your own.

            2 0 Reply
  3. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Boffin

    And another thing ...

    presumably an increase of 1,900 skilled workers needs a proportionate increase in the number of cusodiet custodes ? (Or is that custodiem custodias ?|)

    8 1 Reply
    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: And another thing ...

      I think that is one of the recruitment issues.

      Many of the cyber-security graduates they interview aren't able to conjugate latin verbs sufficiently to pass the civil service entrance exam.

      12 1 Reply
      1. werdsmith Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: And another thing ...

        So they get declined.......

        Et opus meum et tunicam

        1 0 Reply
  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Shirley they should offshore it to cheap unskilled labour - like everything else?

    6 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Of course they should, and stop calling me Shirley!

      2 0 Reply
  5. x 7

    "Shirley they should offshore it to cheap unskilled labour"

    they already have - Menwith Hill is mainly staffed by Americans

    8 0 Reply
  6. herman

    Well, they can always outsource their IT work to India.

    4 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      @herman

      I'm sure the Chinese would be able to able to do it too

      6 0 Reply
  7. SolidSquid

    Have to wonder whether the Snowden releases have impacted their recruiting and to what extent. We know that the NSA and FBI at least ran into issues with people not wanting to take jobs with them because of some of what was revealed

    7 0 Reply
  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you want to work for a morally questionable company which exploits the country to further it's own goals then work for a bank, at least they will pay you well.

    30 0 Reply
    1. Gordon 10
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      Plus you get to sleep soundly at night.

      2 1 Reply
      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
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        Don't count on it.

        7 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      You would think they would pay you well but it's not a given. I once worked for a (well the) very questionable one and the pay was crap for the first six years with always the promise of good money around the corner. It transpired that they exploited their infrastructure more than the country. And you couldn't sleep too well at nights either thanks to often being on call (unpaid).

      1 0 Reply
      1. energystar
        Reply Icon

        On Call HAS to be always paid...

        On the double or triple, plus expenses [that include child care]. Never tire your people. Mistakes are a lot more expensive.

        0 0 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Not one of these 5-eyed spook cunts...

      Ever admits that the spying apparatus is used for economic espionage (the magic number of 200m has been mentioned for US corporations competing for contracts), but who knows what the real figure is!!! Maybe zero as long as you have 'the right' Corporate pals to call up 'the right' buddies in congress, who put a call into back-channels to get strategic info from NSA Inc....

      Not one has admitted to routinely intercepting UN / NATO / Diplomatic communications to spy on world leaders either. This is simply never discussed. And how about TPP / TTIP / TISA tracking and monitoring? Shut up serfs and swallow the lies that spying exists to catch T's and P's....

      Meanwhile in interviews, the mass media never challenges Spooks about these abuses. It feels empty to say power corrupts. Power doesn't corrupt, power is corruption. Welcome to Panama pricks! This is the true self-preservation society, but without the charm of the Italian-Job....

      11 1 Reply
      1. Sir Alien
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        Re: Not one of these 5-eyed spook cunts...

        Power != corruption.

        If I had the ability to annihilate this blue ball you call home but decided not to do it.

        Am I corrupt? Obviously not.

        Although it is only movies, the term "with great power comes great responsibility" does really apply to many things. I may have the ability to destroy this planet but choose not to do it, thus making me responsible by not abusing my ability.

        The problem here is that those with great power seem to think of only two things. More money and more power. Whether you believe it or not, most spy agencies do industrial espionage. It's part of the job. They simply need hide the fact that they are doing it really well.

        My "uber sekret weaponz" is hiding behind Saturn

        - S.A

        4 1 Reply
        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Not one of these 5-eyed spook cunts...

          If Britain's spy agencies are doing industrial espionage - they are either doing it very badly, or keeping the results secret from British industry.

          7 1 Reply
          1. Hans 1
            Reply Icon
            Facepalm

            Re: Not one of these 5-eyed spook cunts...

            >If Britain's spy agencies are doing industrial espionage - they are either doing it very badly, or keeping the results secret from British industry.

            They do industrial espionage for the US only, even if British jobs are at stake, their loyalty goes to [Money-]Washing-town.

            2 0 Reply
          2. Tom 7
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            Re: Not one of these 5-eyed spook cunts...

            "keeping the results secret from British industry." you dick they're the ones they're spying on!

            0 0 Reply
      2. energystar
        Reply Icon

        Intelligence doing Industrial Dirty Work?

        Too much tin foil. Industry profiting from Industry Secrecy usually have their own 'contractors'. Its a question of wrongdoers 'confidence'. It is a 'private club' shared 'morale' issue. It is a 'cosa nostra' and not 'tua', certainly.

        0 0 Reply
  9. Buzzword

    Mossad do it right

    Get them in young, train them up as part of the army, then do your best to keep them onboard for grown-up work. The Israeli example proves it's perfectly feasible.

    2 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mossad do it right

      Only assuming you want a Mossad. Personally I'd rather GCHQ stuck to being a sleepy civil service bureaucracy.

      11 2 Reply
    2. energystar
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      If enrollment is profiling...

      Then they're not getting the best, by far. Citizens well rooted in the Country, that's all.

      0 0 Reply
    3. Hans 1
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Re: Mossad do it right

      Mossad only need young recruits because they are easier to brainwash. It is true, though, that they have eager fighters, among the most eager fighters on the planet (if not the most eager), they have good & bad so completely mixed up the SS would have been jealous.

      1 0 Reply

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