back to article Hey Windows 10, weren't you supposed to help PC sales?

Very few if any ever thought Windows 10 would truly reinvigorate the PC industry, and they were right - IDC has pulled down forecasts on traditional device sales for 2016. The analyst has clipped unit expectations by a couple of per cent, claiming global notebooks and desktops shipments into channels are now on course to …

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Facepalm

Re: Improve PC Specs

While true that "Windows 10 is faster" to some degree, the upgrade debarkle did give an opportunity to see a real result... as in a failed effort to install 10 while their servers were down, the new build with Windows 7 booted* in 1 second flat.

So, if 10 "has the fastest boot time" is faster, I doubt it even matters.

*And as it's Windows 7 that was a cold, real boot. Not a pretend "we will turn off the monitor to pretend it shut down quickly, then suspend to disk and reload a bootstrap with a password screen to cover up our tricks that" 10 does.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

A big win for AMD: the market seems to have sussed out that the end of Intel's process advantage and pace of progress control means AMD is back in the race. AMD stock is up 46% in the last month.

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Moore's Law did not "break"

Only those who misunderstand what it means and think it meant "CPUs get twice as fast every couple years". What Moore actually said that was that the density of transistors would double every couple years (originally it was 18 months, but he adjusted it in the 70s)

For quite a while doubling the number of transistors, made possible by shrinking transistor dimensions, allowed a combination of faster clock rates and more complex CPUs that did significantly increase CPU performance every couple years (not quite doubling, but a big jump) The problem is that as they did this the power demand for CPUs kept increasing, and they reached the point where people didn't want noisy fans and energy wasting PCs. For most people, current performance (hell, decade ago performance) is "good enough" for their needs, and it isn't worth it for Intel to design new cores that suck down 500 watts with exotic water cooling solutions for the small segment of people who might be interested in them.

Now Moore's Law is used to increase density in ways that reduce power usage (i.e. larger low power transistors, gating, etc.) or increase cores/cache since added complexity wastes too much power and has hit a point of diminishing returns as well.

Would you really buy a new PC just because one came out that was twice as fast? If so, you're in a single digit minority. Most people don't have any need for a faster CPU - and anyway would realize FAR bigger performance gains by switching from a PC using a hard drive to one with a SSD. Many of those who do want a "twice as fast" PC are gamers, but consoles have sucked a lot of the life out of PC gaming since many titles are designed to run on both consoles and PCs, so couldn't make much use of additional performance anyway. So their desire for faster PCs is often based on hopefulness that faster PCs would mean cooler games designed for them, when in reality most games would still be designed with a console's limitations in mind.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

With you there AC, and I don't even use MS products. From what I have seen Win8 and 10 do work smoother than 7, but the GUI, oh hell that GUI.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

@bombastic bob: I use Windows 7 at work, and 8.1 at home, and I'm here to tell you my home machine runs much faster than my similarly-platformed work one. It boots from cold in less than 20 seconds, launches programs quicker, is generally more responsive, well supported and stable. Admittedly that may have a lot to do with the admin/spyware on my work machine, but the boot time in particular is a tiny fraction of what it was.

Windows 8.1 is a very nice OS, and it's a shame it got tarred with the generic hate directed at 8.0 (which I never tried).

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Re: Improve PC Specs

Unless someone got to it - AFAIK the new CPUs will have instructions that require Win 10+ and won't run without it. Think of it as Intel's insurance policy against being left behind. So don't think of moving your Win 7 to the new CPU.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

> AFAIK the new CPUs will have instructions that require Win 10+ and won't run without it.

You are confused, but that may be because MS deliberately made you so. What is actually true is that the new CPUs will have extra instructions. Win10+ will use those extra instructions, but older Windows (or other OS) will run on the CPU without using the extra instructions.

The statement 'Windows 7, 8 won't support the new CPUs', means it won't support the new features, not that it won't run.

Intel would be insane to make incompatible CPUs that won't run as normal x86-64.

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Facepalm

Re: Improve PC Specs

Uhhhh...that is because Win 8/8.1 does NOT do a real boot, it only does a suspend to disk. If you install a new driver or do any other update that requires a real fresh boot? You'll see the Win 8 "fast boot" is fast BS.

If you want to do the same "speed trick" in Win 7 simply enable hybrid sleep and use it, you'll find it "magically" becomes just as fast as Win 8.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

we use windows 7 here at work too. From cold (not hibernate) they get to the CTRL-ALT-DEL in 20 seconds - this varies as there are usually updates to install on boot (WSUS downloads at 4pm and install on first boot, WOL powers them up at 8.20). CTRL-ALT-DEL to desktop is about 20 seconds depending on the machine again as some install up to 5 printers (the art department) whereas some only install 1 printer (each printer takes about 5 seconds each and is the main drag on loading profiles.

Profiles are roaming and about 30Mb each (main folders are redirected obviously, 30Mb covers the general settings per user). Machines are 3GHz core 2 duo on SSDs.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

Strange, my version of W8 and W10 consume LESS hard drive space, LESS memory and run slightly faster OOB because the shitty Aero is gone (Granted, I killed that Aero crap within 5 min of getting a W7 box). Are you sure you are not running an X-Windows Manager that LOOKS like W8?

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Re: Improve PC Specs

They took minutes at the college I attended last year on Windows 7. I think boot times relate to configuration settings such as group policies. Once converted to Windows 10 the boot times were faster.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

AMD shares are up 46% you say? Are they trading over a dollar a share yet?

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Re: Improve PC Specs

Not in my experience. The UX is very much better. Everyone I have upgraded LOVES Windows 10. They have zero problems with apps or the desktop too. Super fast boot times, super stable and fast, I would ditch Win7 in a heartbeat... wait, I already did.

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Re: Improve PC Specs

Doing a FULL COLD BOOT in Windows 10 (I don't allow non full boots to my main box) it boots in under 8 seconds flat allowing me to log in and start work, just like that.

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Hmmm, but I thought ...

I have seen comments from Microsoft that indicate Windows 10 will actually work faster than the other Os' from MIcrosft and will therfore invigorate an older PC.

No I would say that this fact alone, if it is true, means PC makers are in even deeper s**t than before.

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Re: Hmmm, but I thought ...

I have seen comments from Microsoft that indicate Windows 10 will actually work faster than the other Os' from MIcrosft and will therfore invigorate an older PC.

Pewrhaps because W10 sends all your data into "the cloud" where it can be pilfer^H^H^H^H^H^Hprocessed faster?

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Re: Hmmm, but I thought ...

I've seen remarks to that effect as well but I am left with the question of whether it is actually working faster under W10 or if this is the benefit of a registry cleanout and driver clearup etc (assuming an upgrade) or if it just seems faster the way these always do after a clean OS (re)install?

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Re: Hmmm, but I thought ...

Indeed, just look at windows\installer and windows\winsxs to see how bloated your installation has become. I know the winsxs is a collection of symlinks so isn't a true space hog but the installer folder is a space hog of "previous installers for compatability" (much the same way windows 98 had .dlls for everything you ever installed).

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Re: Hmmm, but I thought ...

It has a smaller size on the harddrive than W7 (but so did W8) and has a slightly smaller memory footprint since it ditched a driver model and some "old stuff" support.

That overall makes it run a bit faster on older boxes with 2-4 GB of main memory (Net/Notebooks, some tablet pc)

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That screenshot of the Win10 desktop got me thinking - I wonder what percentage of all Win10 users use the search box, and how regularly? I have no idea, but it sure is taking up an awful lot of useful real estate.

With all the metrics and other stuff Win10 gathers and phones home, you can bet MS know the exact answer to my question, but I'm not holding my breath for them to publish it. This is a real shame; it would be really interesting to see how Windows is interfaced with on a global level. It may even explain why the Windows interface is seemingly designed with an idiot in mind.

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If you need the screen real estate, there's an option to shrink the search box to an icon which opens Cortana above the task bar, or you can remove it.

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Facepalm

To be honest, it's a subject that I've been getting heartily sick of. We all know where we stand as far as W10 is concerned and articles like this seem a little too much like gloating over Microsoft's failings just as other articles pushing the increasing numbers of installs seem a little too much like Microsoft and its shills either trumpeting their success, trying to keep the naysayers at bay or, at the very least, attempting damage control.

My combination of openSUSE Linux, Windows 7 and a Raspberry Pi running RISC OS will do me just fine, thanks. Now can't we just give it a rest?

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give WHAT a rest?

"it's a subject that I've been getting heartily sick of. We all know where we stand as far as W10 is concerned and articles like this seem a little too much like gloating over Microsoft's failings just as other articles pushing the increasing numbers of installs seem a little too much like Microsoft and its shills either trumpeting their success, trying to keep the naysayers at bay or, at the very least, attempting damage control."

"Now can't we just give it a rest?"

only when Microsoft and others *FINALLY* grow a brain, get a clue, and release an OS that reverses this ridiculous trend. Until then, it'll get the *NEGATIVE* attention it deserves. And MS will continue to try to save their own backsides, naturally. and you can't just let them get away with it. But I don't see MS releasing a 'Windows 11' that un-does the damage. And here we are...

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Re: give WHAT a rest?

only when Microsoft and others *FINALLY* grow a brain, get a clue, and release an OS that reverses this ridiculous trend.

It won't happen. Historically, Microsoft only "get a clue" after the disaster has already happened. It was years after the event that they apologised for WME and I've yet to hear a reasonable apology for Vista, let alone W8.x. Microsoft never likes to admit their mistakes, preferring instead for them to fade away on their own, like Zune or Bob.

The only difference here is that Windows is a core business. It's quite obvious that it's a business that could end up doing the same thing as Novell Netware so they want to generate new business. That would be fine if they hadn't fired so many of their talented staff and pushed so hard on the whole "let's take over the touch screen universe because we're Microsoft" thing. They were hard up enough for originality back in the days when W7 was being put together but at least we ended up with a reasonably usable product.

Until then, it'll get the *NEGATIVE* attention it deserves. And MS will continue to try to save their own backsides, naturally. and you can't just let them get away with it. But I don't see MS releasing a 'Windows 11' that un-does the damage. And here we are...

Yes, here we are. However just harping on about it isn't really negative. We know that Microsoft have seriously mishandled the roll out of W10 and have gained a lot of negative press about it.

We know that W10's "free" offer isn't really free, and that users are being used as free beta testing labour.

We know that W10 is a data slurper on a par with such systems as Android despite Microsoft criticising Google publicly for that very thing in past times.

We know that W10, in it's default "recommended" form can seriously damage your data cap balance.

We know all that, and we know that even if you disable all of that as far as possible, it provides nothing better than W8.1 with Classic Shell added, and neither really provides any real discernible improvement over W7 unless you are looking for specifics (or you are one of those rare smartphone or tablet users with W8 on it).

But all of this is just repeating stuff that we have known for much of the time since W10 was released. There's nothing new there, and that's the biggest reason why I get sick of it. I get sick of having to research every single patch my W7 machines are told they should be downloading because Microsoft insist on slipping new nagware and other nasties in (the latest IE11 thing being a good example). I know that some people will be out there downgrading to W10 because they know no better, but who am I to judge them?

In the end, I tend to prefer to let W10 die in the way that Microsoft prefers - a long, slow, painful drift into obscurity. It won't die any other way, and continuing to complain about it just keeps it in the public eye where it certainly doesn't deserve to be. So there you have it.

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Re: give WHAT a rest?

You're making far too much sense there, Chika...

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Re: doing the same thing as Novell Netware

You mean running faultlessly for years, without so much as a reboot?

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Underplaying the responsibility of the hardware vendors

These guys need to pull their socks up. Can't just blame Microsoft squarely for any of it. Yeah their recent OS's suck - 10 is ok when you turn all the spying shit off. 8/8.1 was another Vista.

However, the manufacturers packaging this stuff are 80% responsible for their own downfall. They have relied FAR too long on repackaging the same old shit over and over again, and ensuring Apple take the crown for form, design and aesthetics each time, which is bizarre when you understand the stuff underneath the hood is the same.

Case in point: ALL laptop screens up until very recently were 1366x768. It looks shit, make the CPU/RAM etc as beefy as you want. If you package it in a plastic cover and stick one of those shitty LCD panels in it, no one is going to fucking buy it.

Try to provide something unique to your brand, hell even a simple skin on the OS would do something to differentiate. The way I see it, there are so many hardware people touting the same thing in a slightly different shaped box.

Give the punters some better screen options, some choice in CPU (i.e. AMD as well as Intel), give us some dedicated graphics options for gaming performance, slick looking cases with a bit of design forethought. ANYTHING to make you stand out.

Although that said I will always custom build my rigs. Have done for over 15 years.

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Re: Underplaying the responsibility of the hardware vendors

Re 1366x768 screens

Punters will buy Laptops if they are presented with nothing else (As the salesdroid carefully guides them away from the MacBooks). Just go into just about any PC-World/Carphone/Dixons on a Saturday and you can see this in action.

My Dell Inspiron circa 2003 had a 1600x1200 screen. What progress has been made in the past 13 years?

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Re: Underplaying the responsibility of the hardware vendors

"8/8.1 was another Vista."

Oh, Bollocks. 8.1 is an excellent OS.

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Anonymous Coward

There was a time when my desktop, and those of my "clients", had a replacement motherboard about every couple of years. Occasionally the case/PSU had to be changed too. They gave significant improvements in performance.

O/S changes were treated more circumspectly as they were likely to be incompatible with existing peripherals or applications. The rule of thumb was to wait for version 3 or SP2.

The current PC is running W7 64bit on an i7-870 with 16GB. It's hard to see how to take advantage of the four processors - even the most cpu intensive application only uses one and a bit.

The upside is that there is lots of money in my savings account to buy something with a new processor/memory that would hopefully be much faster. I was waiting for W10 to settle down - but the nagware etc has put the kibosh on that route. I'm wasting too much time trying to keep my W7 clean.

The laptops for browsing etc will go to Linux Mint if W7 gets stuffed by the W10 nagware. The desktop big application will need a lot of work to port it to Linux - but it could be an interesting project.

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Re: big application will need a lot of work to port it to Linux

Run Win7 in a VM on Linux, that will give your CPU more to do and provide easy rollback if MSFT slips in any sly updates.

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PCs aren't dead in their niche

Traditional PC makers are in a bad spot. Most people are fine with tablets and phones for content consumption now, and PCs are lasting longer and longer these days because there's just so much processing power and speed with SSDs, etc.

That doesn't mean there is not a strong market for PCs within their segment. If manufacturers would stop focusing on trying to wring out margin on $300 garbage consumer PCs sold at Best Buy, they'd find there's money to be made at the high end. I'm personally considering replacing my home workstation after a long stretch, and I'm certainly willing to spend money on quality systems. Lenovo makes a nice line of workstations, along with capable midrange corporate PCs, but they also make a line of consumer junk.

These manufacturers would be fine if they abandoned the consumer market and aimed a little higher.

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Meh

Maybe Win 10 did help PC sales

In a similar way to Why didn't quantitative easing produce huge inflation?, maybe if there had been no Win 10, PC sales would really have fallen through the floor. Who can say? But Canute may be a better analogy.

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Privacy Issue

Microsoft should fix the privacy issue without sulking or attempting to punish its customers:

1. Delineate the operating system from online services in the EULA, making it possible to employ Windows 10 with out a forfeiture of the right to privacy.

2. Provide a switch to "one stop" turn off the data sharing with servers, for everything but security patches in Windows 10, and for everything in Windows 10 Pro. Make it so that once sharing is switched OFF, users can then go back and manually set individual items to share should they want to restore specific online services.

3. Microsoft needs to make non-security patches for the OS and drivers OPTIONAL.

4. Make sure to inform the public widely, so that the public's confidence in Windows 10 is restored. As it is, every man (made male and female) and her/his dog thinks of Windows 10 as probable spyware.

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Re: Privacy Issue

'Provide a switch to "one stop" turn off the data sharing with servers'

Don't bother with a switch. Just strip the whole lot out.

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Re: Privacy Issue

Any OS, let's face it, is just a tool. I've been a Windows user since 3.1 and none of the Windows OSs have ever provided the full functionality that, at any given stage, was technically feasible. Fortunately, those failings were quickly addressed by developers of third-party utilities. Hence, I've relied on a slew of third-party apps to make the wretched 'tool' user-friendly. (That does have drawbacks: I've used Total Commander since it was called Windows Commander, so never became au fait with the incarnations of Explorer.) Right now, my 5-year-old system does everything that I need -- but it is going to die one day. And then what? I dread that day.

Windows 10 will not be an option: I must be in full control of my computer (data privacy and all that). I'll have to find another OS, learn what it can and does not do, and then find third-party apps to provide the required functionality. And do all that without disrupting my part-time freelance work because, if a deadline is missed, that client is lost for ever. Although I've been half-heartedly playing with flavours of Linux, the time has come when I really must apply myself to preempting doomsday.

However, I don't think I can be the only person facing this dilemma. There must be other folk who do part-time freelance work and thus need to ensure client privacy/security, and are wondering which OS to turn to next?

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"Very few if any ever thought Windows 10 would truly reinvigorate the PC industry, and they were right"

Given that "they" in the quote above are the "very few", I guess they will be reveling in sweet vindication of a robust PC sales environment tonight.

Hurrah!

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Maybe if ...

Maybe if Microsoft didn't drastically change the user interface from the way it looks in Windows 7 so that the people who don't like change were willing to give it a try (like my mother and brother), then they would see more uptake with that group of people.

Maybe if Microsoft hadn't turned Windows 10 into the biggest piece of corporate spyware yet seen, the corporations would be more willing to consider it.

Maybe if Microsoft hadn't turned Windows 10 into the biggest piece of personal privacy invading spyware yet seen from a major corporation, the security minded techs would consider using it (at lest the ones that aren't already using some sort of UNIX/LInux as a desktop).

Maybe if Microsoft stopped trying to block people from doing what they want to do with thier own computers, even when that might not be a mainstream activity, there might be more of an uptake from small development shops.

Maybe if Microsoft wasn't trying to force all software developers into the Microsoft Store, the larger developers would be more willing to consider Windows 10.

Need I go on?

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Re: Maybe if ...

No, you do not need to go on. Here I actually like the way Windows 10 looks, and if I didn't there's always Stardock's Start10 which looks beautiful on Windows 10. As for your other points: Microsoft should beware, pride and arrogance before a fall.

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Re: Maybe if ...

"Need I go on?"

sure, keep going. you've *NAILED IT* pretty well, so far.

can I give you multiple up-arrows?

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Re: Maybe if Microsoft didn't drastically change the user interface

But they had to do that, to set MSFT up as a big player in the mobile market. That sure worked out well.

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AMAZING VALUE

Picked up a Tosh 15" laptop for £125 from Staples, perfect for acting as a presentation workhorse. Windows 10 runs lovely on it and it's only a few quid more than a Hudl !!.

Well chuffed. Cheap as.

Sure, not going to be playing the latest game on it or run Handbrake anytime soon, but as bread-and-butter iron to replace an aging laptop, it fits the bill nicely. Sure, only has 15Gb spare after dumping Office on it, but a fat stick or sd card and/or cloud storage and I'm laughing.

Still can't quite understand that price point... it's bonkers.

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Re: AMAZING VALUE

Make sure you download all the drivers for your laptop from Toshiba's Support Page, they might not be visible in a years time, when they completely pull out of the PC Market - hence the reason its cheap. If Lexmark Printer support, is anything to go by, I'll pass on a cheap Toshiba.

You only have to look who was first to make Win10 drivers easily available for older machines: Lenovo.

HP's support website just got even worst at obfuscating non-existent Win10 drivers for things like fingerprint readers, 3D Hard drive protection etc, by re-dating some Vista/Win7 drivers as released in 2015-2016 (yet its same old non-compatible driver).

The whole HP Win10 driver support website is just designed to send you round in circles till you get fed up and click the link to buy a new machine.

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Windows

Microsoft's major mistake is a simple one...

For the record: even though I'm a vivid and enthusiastic Unix administrator (quite the passionate one at that) I also appreciate and value all the things which you can do in Windows. Although the target audience maybe the illiterate end user there's also a lot of stuff going on underneath the GUI and there's plenty of tinkering and discovering to do.

Please note that I'm not claiming that Windows is without any flaws or issues. But I do think some people don't give it the credit which it deserves. There's a very solid infrastructure underneath (MMC anyone?) and there's plenty of stuff which you can do on the commandline. Starting/stopping a Windows service? No, I don't use services.exe or services.msc for that. I more than often use sc.exe instead (just start it, you'll see what I mean).

But what Microsoft needs to really get into its thick skull is that this isn't the 80's anymore. The market is no longer something you can dictate by throwing (sometimes): horrid stuff at it and expecting people to buy i(n)t(o) anyway because they don't have a choice. Thanks to the power of the Internet; the power of social media and the massive share of knowledge people do have a choice. Worse yet (worse for the vendors): they now also realize as much, or can easily find out with a few mouse clicks.

Yet here we are.. It seems to me that the only thing Microsoft has "learned" from the Windows 8 drama is that this freedom of choice is what got their OS the downfall so what is the logical step to take? Apparently not making your choice of option as appealing as possible, but instead trying to take away that choice of freedom.

Like I mentioned above: this isn't the 80's anymore! I've seen people who were very happy with WIndows 7, even Windows 8, and completely freaked out when Windows 10 happened. Merely because they felt oppressed. They didn't got any choice in the matter, "Big brother" was running their PC and that was a clear sign to them that it was time to try this "Linux thing" and get rid of Windows completely (true story). And the worst part: even though I actually admire Windows and how far Microsoft has come so far I really can't blame those guys. Worse yet: I think they're completely right too.

I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of manages and beancounters and others who actually have studied all this and they know what's good for Microsoft. Bollocks!

PowerShell. That was good for Microsoft, because it actually managed to get talked about on Unix fora where even Unix fanboys (you know, the "I hate Windows because... you can't open it") had to admit that PowerShell "wasn't all that bad".

Mono. That was also good for Microsoft because plenty of players could respect the fact that Microsoft allowed a bunch of fans to hack into their crown jewels (pun intended) and provide .NET on other platforms. Many people enjoy mod-mono (yours truly included) but not only that: got a nice taste of what working with a Microsoft standard was all about.

But everytime Microsoft has something good they feel the need to enforce other stuff on us. Visual Basic 6 anyone? It's EOL is waay behind us, Microsoft opted and pushed heavily on .NET but a large group of programmers remained who won't let VB die out like that. Because VB can get you places where other languages can't, not that easily anyway. Only now has Microsoft finally realized the obvious and they're actually adding the VB dll's to later versions of Windows so that code can run without the missing DLL messages.

So yeah. Microsoft's mistake is that they don't try to appeal to the masses. And when something good hits them then it seems they're even too stupid to realize it. Give people what they want, not what you think they need. What people need is getting what they want. And when done right then giving them what they want could even be good for you Microsoft.

But if you keep this up then I honestly fear for the worst. It would be well deserved, but not something I'd enjoy. Because the less players we have on the IT market the more vulnerable us consumers become to getting even more crap pushed down our throats. Because then we won't have as many choices as we do now.

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PC makers could reinvigorate sales by actively embedding new technologies that are supported by Windows 10, such as Real3D cameras for Windows Hello, DirectX 12 stack, USB 3.1 type C and more.

Otherwise, the client, seeing her old Windows 7 PC is entitled to a free upgrade to Windows 10, won't see any reason to upgrade the hardware.

Where PC makers innovate, e.g. 2-in-1, they generally fare quite well.

Last but not least, they could ban traditional hard drives from all their configurations and replacing them with SSDs, and making them available only as an option.

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I have tried Windows 10. While it might appeal to those who've never used a PC before, a mere five minutes of it would be enough to put me off, if it wasn't for the fact that it was in a VM on a Linux box and so I could easily return to sanity. It certainly wouldn't encourage me to buy a new PC - last one I built was almost two years ago and Windows in any form never went near it. I did buy a cheap Dell laptop last year, but the pre-installed Windows 10 on that was wiped without being run when I installed Debian over the top.

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IBM beat Toshiba to the exit by a country mile

Big Blue cashed in during the run-up to Vista. Prescient! Must have used an AI or something.

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Predictions of future PC sales

Based on the vast overestimates of the PC market from Gartner and IDC over the past five years (they predicted solid growth and totally missed the ~30% decline from the market peak) you should subtract at least 5% from their future estimates. So if they think the market will shrink by 0.5% annually over the next five years, substitute a 5.5% annual decline and you'll probably be closer to the truth.

PCs sold with Vista or later are perfectly adequate for today for 95% of PC users. If they want more speed, a SSD and more RAM will make it work better than most new ones you'd buy today (many of which are still sold with hard drives, or useless 'hybrid' drives) The main driver for new PC sales today are people who don't know it is possible to upgrade their PC and don't realize they could pay someone to do it for less, and corporates who are depreciating and replacing them on a set schedule.

A lot of people who only got a PC for email and web access have no need of one now, they do those things on their phone now.

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Re: Predictions of future PC sales

"PCs sold with Vista or later are perfectly adequate for today for 95% of PC users."

etc.

yes, since Moore's Law is no longer making next year's model 30% to 50% "better" than this year's model [with respect to user perception, not multi-core, RAM, or storage].

user perception is key here. yeah, made this point already, but putting into context with what you've said may make it clearer.

People are NOT buying new; they're 'upgrading old' (or just plain fixing it). If the OS cannot make the computer "appear faster" to end-users, they stick with what they have, PARTICULARLY if built-in features or the appearance of the "new" OS *IRRITATES* them. Like "Ape" and Win-10-nic.

Microsoft *FORGOT* what sold windows 3.0 back in the 90's. It was the *EYE* *CANDY*. 3.0 had a 3D skeumorphic appearance. 2.x did NOT [it looked more like "Ape" and Win-10-nic, actually].

So WHAT makes Microsoft think that going BACK to 2.x's appearance is *MODERN* ???

Really, they're just angering the customer base, and making people want to KEEP their 7 and even Vista machines.

So then, what YOU said happens:

"If they want more speed, a SSD and more RAM will make it work better than most new ones you'd buy today"

And Microsoft should pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION as to *WHY*. Or DIE. Their choice.

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Why buy a new PC?

I'm sitting here with a 6 year old PC that has a core i7 CPU, 24GB RAM, and dual SSDs. The memory and storage upgrades have made this system perform better than the day I bought it. It can handle Win10 and multiple apps with little effort.

I may upgrade to or build a new system this year, but if I'm honest about it, I really don't need to do that yet.

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