back to article Sexism isn't getting better in Silicon Valley, it's getting worse

In the technology field, many people like to think that they are at the forefront of human development, but it is becoming clear that the industry is failing when it comes to dealing with sexism against women. In January, a survey from Stanford University of women who'd spent at least ten years in the tech industry found that …

Yag

Re: "The rule from the Feds is you can ask once, but not twice."

Yeah...

As most of the ladies would just brush off the first attempt with a uncommiting sentence like "Sorry, I am too busy with the current project", the second attempt once the project is over will be a dice roll. With a critical fumble chart.

2
0

Law vs. real life

If you ask women out when you know they are not interested and find it annoying, that's harassment. Continuing to ask after the second clear "no" for example would generally count. Once, you are probably legally in the clear.

But in real life, you are expected to know whether a woman is interested before you ask her.

This is a social convention to prevent women having to bat away a hundred foolish questions every day. You should be able to pick this up from body language and facial expressions. However if you are poor at body language or you are still not sure, ask mutual friends their opinion before asking her.

If you get a lot of "no" answers, you should learn from that you are poor at interpreting facial expressions and body language, and stick to asking mutual friends first.

1
1
Silver badge

Dr Sue Black

"Our society is vaguely misogynistic…" WTF is that supposed to mean? Sounds like something from The Day Today. Then again Sue Black would organise <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G07sWzYObnk>excellent jam festivals</a>, I think.

I was at a corporate client's HQ yesterday. Roses were being handed out to women at the canteen because it was international women's day. Can someone help explain how this helps break down stereotypes because I fucking can't. Just more bloody tokenism. And ironic when you consider where, and under what conditions, roses are grown so they can be handed out in early March in Europe.

21
0
Silver badge
Trollface

Re: Dr Sue Black

@ Charlie Clark

"Can someone help explain how this helps break down stereotypes because I fucking can't."

It helps by singling out the selected group and making them very visible with the patronising meaning of 'your not weak, honest'. Because who doesnt want a spotlight on them announcing a negative stereotype they may or may not resemble.

6
0
Silver badge

Re: Dr Sue Black

Can I give you my $0.02.

A society where you cannot give women flowers just because you feel like that without implying a sexual or sexist context because of f**** political correctness is not f**** worth living in.

Some people seriously need to get a life.

10
2
Silver badge

Re: Dr Sue Black

So how would you react if a bloke gave you flowers?

1
1
Silver badge

Re: Dr Sue Black

@ John G Imrie

"So how would you react if a bloke gave you flowers?"

Same as anyone else handing me flowers- 'damn, now I need to find somewhere to put this. Or maybe I can give them to someone else!'

7
0
Silver badge
Happy

@codejunky

4
0
Silver badge

Re: Dr Sue Black

So how would you react if a bloke gave you flowers?

A better analogy would be coming to work and finding a bottle of my fav booze next to the keyboard. Or a fresh coffee in the morning. Though I do not mind flowers too and I have had flowers left on my desk in the morning (with booze and chocs) - a few jobs back after going at 3am to fix the servers so our colleagues in a different TZ can work.

I know, I am supposed to be a demented, politically correct idiot and assume that this is an "unwanted advance" which I should immediately report to HR and my wife. How about an alternative explanation?

TOKEN OF APPRECIATION. Ever heard this one? Oh, I forgot - that explanation requires treating your colleagues like humans. Not like corporate drones. Yeah, tall order - I know. Goes to confirm my hypothesis that the "wrong" with the industry is not misoginism and sexism. It is sociopathy (regardless of the sexual aspect).

4
1
Anonymous Coward

Maybe the problem with the whole sexism argument isn't sexism but the stereotypes that are repeated over and over again. If you show one gender from an early age that they cook, clean, hoover up or are a sexual object on the TV don't be surprised when they don't go to work and aspire to get to the top. Likewise if you show one gender as being competitive in most sports then don't be surprised when they are competitive in the workplace. That's the problem and going on about how it is will never change it till the source of the problem is dealt with. I note that some channels are being more gender non-specific and cleaning up their acts, if that carries on and is taken up by everyone else then the problem will solve itself. That's just my opinion.

6
3

This post has been deleted by its author

Silver badge

International men's day.

19th November, or didn't read the article.

2
0
Yag
Facepalm

Re: International men's day.

My reaction to International Women's day : sigh.

My reaction to International Men's day : SIGH!

3
0
Anonymous Coward

"a survey from Stanford University of women" - Well that's not going to be biased in any way... A lot of these types of sexist surveys have a poor number of respondents which always skew an already cherry picked figure. Just have to look at the "1 in 4 women" statistics.

"Prominent women in technology now routinely get blasted by rape threats, sexist abuse, and doxing promises by those hiding behind the coward's cloak of anonymity" - Prominent women obviously don't understand the internet, there are a lot of trolls out there and they will attack you regardless of your ethnicity or gender.

"Getting more women into management is, however, going to be crucial to solve the problems of in-company sexism." - Not really. This attitude will just create a gender imbalance, giving preferential treatment in favour of women and then shift the problem onto the other end of the scale.

I find a lot of these agendas are pushed by feminists and they don't actually want gender equality. They rather play the victim to get preferential treatment. They call for more women in STEM while at the same time shouting how unfair, sexist and misogynistic it is. This actually has an adverse effect as they are unjustly scaring women from STEM.

11
5
Silver badge

I find a lot of these agendas are pushed by feminists and they don't actually want gender equality.

Not so sure about that. Depends upon your definition of feminist, I guess.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that there is now an industry of "victim culture". It's not actually interested solutions just in talking shops and junkets for its members.

8
2
Happy

Three wheels on my...

Get back in the wagon, woman!

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Which ones?

" twice as likely to suffer sexual harassment as some other industries"

Which industries? Can't seem to find a list in the report. Teaching? Where there are far more women than men and so less likely to be sexual harassment? Healthcare? Same reason.

The most annoying thing with all of these type of reports are the sloppy unqualified numbers.

7
0
Silver badge
Joke

"Make me a sandwhich"...?

Come on, everybody knows how wrong that is. The proper way to do that is "sudo make me a sandwich"...

8
0
Joke

Re: "Make me a sandwhich"...?

Didn't work

make: *** No rule to make target 'me'. Stop.

5
0
Coat

Re: "Make me a sandwich"...?

Not war?

*

0
0

Yes there is an international mens day...

"Incidentally, there is also an International Men's Day, on November 19 each year. No one seems to complain about this, however."

Sigh.. yes, there is an international mens day, and yes there is a lot of complaining about the fact that it exists (19th of November last year the guardian ran exactly 1 article highlighting that it was in fact international mens day, and questioning the need for it, as women obviously have it so much worse, and we need to solve all their problems before we can acknowledge that any other exist - to be fair it was an opinion piece, but that was the only piece they ran). The comment section didn't exactly cover the guardianistas in glory either.

Anyway, yesterday was international womens day, and like many others I took the time to read up on and consider issues that uniquely affect women and girls in our society. I managed this without mentioning international mens day once. Maybe next year you will manage to do the same.

3
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: Yes there is an international mens day...

Here here.

1
3

Re: Yes there is an international mens day...

@AC

There There

8
0

Re: Yes there is an international mens day...

@AC

Then Then

2
0
Anonymous Coward

A survey by a bunch of trick-cyclists...

Attitudes change, peoples ideas of what is or is not "sexual harrasment" or "sexist behaviour" changes.

People are becoming increasingly thin-skinned and what constitutes an insult today would barely raise an eyebrow a few years ago. Today, even when "friendly" with a female collegue you're afraid to complement her for fear of being accused of being sexist or "making a pass" at them.

Which make it's claims entirely subjective and meaningless.

5
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: A survey by a bunch of trick-cyclists...

I made some comment, then thought you know what, I'm going to eat a sandwich and drink a cup of tea.

I need to stop letting troll articles troll me, I suggest the rest of us do the same.

3
1

Re: A survey by a bunch of trick-cyclists...

It's not the article that is trolly.

It is the comment section.

Except they seem to mean most of it.

Best of luck to your daughters, gentlemen...

4
8

Re: A survey by a bunch of trick-cyclists...

All about the context...

1) A comment is not a comment...

I vary from shaggy beard, to tidy beard, when I am most hirsute due to my ethic heritage I get comments like this one from a Bulgarian colleague, 'mate, what happened?, you look like (insert dead bearded terrorist here )`s stunt double', this made me laugh but I could imagine someone else feeling very uncomfortable.

2) There is a fine line between being friendly and being a flirt.

As a natural flirt, epecially when tired (less restrained/more impulsive), I've just had to learn to keep my mouth shut at work. One of the board level people is a (female), b (seriously clued up) and c (an outrageous flirt), it's a lot of fun, trading banter over a beer, but that's just not going to fly with anyone who is not either a) a flirt) b) not remotely bothered what people think.

A lot of people are seriously worried what other people read into their actions (barmy IMO) but your colleague might seriously be more concerned with managing the perception of herself/himself, than genuinely offended by compliments.

3
0
Anonymous Coward

RE: All about the context...

Women can be an outrageous flirt and if a guy can't take it, then he's the one who is at fault - "What's the matter, can't take a joke? It's just a bit of fun" etc etc

If a guy is the one who does the flirting, then he gets accused of being a sexist, mysoginist pig etc.

4
1

Re: you look like (insert dead bearded terrorist here )`s stunt double'

I resemble that remark! Well at least during the winter when I grow one.

When I firs started I could have been Arafat's double, except without the grey. Thankfully it's been getting thicker over the years.

0
1
Joke

International Women's Day?

Because it was a leap year?

Jokingly I asked my partner if there was an international men's day. She said yes 365 of them.

5
1
Anonymous Coward

Mosf you are missing the point...

..about International Women's Day. It is not there to bring recognition of comparatively minor Western workplace issues (although it's no bad thing if they get addressed), it is there to highlight the achievements of successful women and contrast them with those areas of the world in which if you are a woman, to give some examples, you can be arrested and imprisoned for leaving the house without your husband's permission, where you are not allowed to wear trousers in public, where you are not allowed to drive yourself to work, where so-called "honour killing" of women is legal, or where women can have their genitals mutilated at a man's whim.

Stop hiding behind accusations of "IWD is only political correctness" and "IWD is sexist" and stand behind this day which highlights the daily campaign to ensure that women the world over enjoy the same rights and privileges as those who happen to have a Y chromosome.

11
1

Re: Mosf you are missing the point...

@AC "Stop hiding behind..."

5
1
Silver badge

Re: Mosf you are missing the point...

I entirely agree.

The event is indeed demeaned and devalued by endless editorials about highly paid/successful/independent women being harassed by (uninvited) compliments and the existence of testosterone.

Perhaps we could pay more attention to the challenges of being a female sysadmin in Islamabad[1] if we weren't swamped with articles about the horrors of being asked out for a drink in San Francisco.

[1] I happen to know one.

14
0

Re: Mosf you are missing the point...

"It is not there to bring recognition of comparatively minor Western workplace issues..."

-It has a different focus in different areas of the world, and doesn't even mean the same to every person in the same country.. it was started off in the US by socialists specifically to acknowledge "western workplace issues" (a womens union strike if memory serves), was especially big in the soviet bloc and now has multiple meanings across the world (womens suffrage, general celebration of women (like mothers day), highlighting issues that affect women, in-equality, reproductive rights, etc).

There is no need to define what it is or isn't, I think that horse bolted a long time ago.

0
1

Re: Mosf you are missing the point...

No we're not. Worse can happen to you for other reasons in those countries, women aren't singled out. But for some reason we're expected to take in all the immigrants they can disgorge and we're expected to adapt to their culture not them to ours.

So yes, IWD is just another feminazi excuse to bash men. Which is precisely why El Reg is getting so much push back on an obvious clickbait article.

3
4
Thumb Up

Re: Mosf you are missing the point...

I up voted you, because you are indeed very right. And wrote that which I hadn't even thought about. Much respect. What you said is nothing to be AC about... Unless you are in a position which enforces such arcane rule sets.

0
1
Yag

Re: Mosf you are missing the point...

AT LAST! Had to get to the second page of comment to read this.

0
1

This post has been deleted by its author

I should really know better than to read the comments on these articles. FFS.

6
0
Silver badge
Unhappy

Indeed. I tend to read the comments here on El Reg because they tend to be witty and entertaining. This thread is mostly just fucking depressing. I say this as a person who is _very_ critical to what these days passes as feminism and furious about, for example, what happened to Tim Hunt.

Equal rights and equal treatment, what's wrong with that? And: "feminazi" in the very first message, WTF?

This posting has been approved by Mrs GrumpenKraut. Just kidding.

2
0
Silver badge
IT Angle

Yet more professional feminista victim waffle

Please don't give these professional feminista victims any more space on your website.

2
6
Silver badge

Lost revenue

Clearly, The Register should start requiring micro-payments for commenting on certain topics. Women and tech should be priciest, Linux v. Windows perhaps next, on through a gradual scale to free for topics so dull and technical that only the qualified with bother to comment.

4
2
Silver badge

Re: Lost revenue

Clearly El Reg should stop trolling its readers

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Cool!

Is this the thread where the boys mansplain to the girls why they don't really want to work in IT while complaining that really it's men who are being discriminated against?

Thought so.

4
5
Silver badge
Devil

Re: Cool!

@AC

mansplain- when you give your opinion on a topic which is not appreciated or agreed with by the listener. Oh and you must also be a man.

2
1

Re: Cool!

Funnily enough I haven't read any commentards suggesting that women shouldn't work in IT - except to say that by saying that it is a more mysognist field (the article saying) would have that effect.

Perhaps you'd like to peruse the comments before posting?

3
0
Silver badge

not an issue at my employer

In the bay area (san bruno, almost spitting distance from youtube). Recently had a company meeting where our female CEO said they are needing to hire more men. I'd guesstimate company wide probably 65%+ women. Inside of the tech departments themselves it's mostly men though.

I don't care either way except all the noise that is being made on the topic is long past annoying. Not quite as annoying as anything political, but getting close.

3
0

stupid feminist nonsense.

I never thought I would see the day when the Register started spewing the nonsensical feminist claptrap. This site used to have writers who actually understood issues and didn't simply puppet the politically-correct mantra.

There must be a tech news site that hasn't bent over. Goodbye El Reg, it was good while it lasted.

2
3

Re: stupid feminist nonsense.

You know, it doesn't bother me that The Register covers stuff like this. They're legitimate topics. What does rub me the wrong way that they are reported uncritically. Things like apparently conflating unwanted advances with sexual harassment, or the vague comparison to "other industries" need to be called out. Why can't stories like this be covered with even the same level of skepticism we see in the ones about how "company foo says product bar will be awesome", or the level of impartiality in an article discussing the merits of a new Linux distro? Heck, even the entertaining "Line Break" stories make some attempt to present both sides.

5
0

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Forums

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018