back to article NZ unfurls proposed new flag

The days of New Zealand's flag bearing the Union Jack may be numbered after citizens voted in favour of a new design featuring the silver fern. The remodelled "black, white and blue" banner, by architect Kyle Lockwood, narrowly topped a poll offering five alternatives, according to the New Zealand Herald. The preliminary …

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Facepalm

Re: Yes please

Quote: "Next can we do something about all those near-indistinguishable European flags that are variations on red, white and blue stripes (or black/blue, yellow and red ones; or green, white and orange/red ones)."

Dont worry, I'm sure the Germans are working hard on replacing all those european flags with just the one again........

PS dont mention the war

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Re: Yes please

Yeah. If it's good enough for Hawaii...

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Re: Yes please

> Honouring your origins is not childish.

So something like this?

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Re: Yes please

Origins are fine, but let's ditch the symbols (and monarchy) of another nation.

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Re: Yes please

Looks like you need educating on your own flag matey.

Fair cop. But it still looks pants with a red x superimposed on a red +. And if we're letting the Scots take the high road, quietly making Wales a sovereign nation whether they like it or not, we'd have to let Ulster decide its own destiny.

So, back to the sub topic of a flag for England, how about this distinctive and appropriate design.

In heraldic terms: Black yellow and grey stripes, with a tenné roundle offset, and tenné zouche adjacent.

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Re: Yes please

>let's ditch the symbols (and monarchy) of another nation.

Isn't that your monarchy?

For my money, the top two look like a cereal packet trademark, the third looks like a semaphore flag, then debian and the last two are sadly colour-deficient.

I'd be a bit upset if those were the options.

The Maple leaf is a clear, clean design. The fern is a bit busy, as are dual-coloured stars.

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I'd quit now if I were you !

"And if we're letting the Scots take the high road, quietly making Wales a sovereign nation whether they like it or not, we'd have to let Ulster decide its own destiny."

Ulster is not part of the United Kingdom. Ulster is one of the 4 provinces of the whole Island of Ireland, along with Leinster, Munster and Connacht. Ulster contains 9 counties. 3 of those counties are part of the Republic of Ireland, whilst the other 6 form the country known as Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland is one of the 4 constituent countries of the United Kingdom.

I mean, come on.. time you learnt about your own sovereign state, then you can start pontificating on flags !

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Re: I'd quit now if I were you !

I mean, come on.. time you learnt about your own sovereign state, then you can start pontificating on flags !

Nope. I didn't come here for well informed debate, and in that respect I came full prepared myself.

"Ignorance shall be my shield, vitriol shall be my spear."

(The Book of Ledswinger, ch 14 vs 54).

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Trollface

You mean the People's Democratic Republic of West Scotland

The Principality of East Scotland will have it's own flag

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Paris Hilton

Re: Yes please

Why don't they have a Sandwich on their flag?

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Re: Yes please

nah ... Hawaii first!

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Thumb Up

I like it

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Anonymous Coward

I.......like.........pickles.

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In the final round of ranking, the winning flag scored 50.53% to 49.47% for it's stablemate, so it was damn close. More people liked the flag that came 2nd (and thus is no longer in the running).

The ~10% of "informal" votes (read: spoiled), give a clue as to how many people who bothered to vote didn't like any of the choices. Add those to the 50% who could even be bothered to mail back the envelope, and you start to realise that the old flag is probably going to be a keeper.

http://electionresults.govt.nz/2015_flag_referendum1/results-by-count-report.html

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I notice that the three top ones all retain some Red-White-and-blue element which suggests some fondness for Blighty yet (unlike a certain very large island in the same geographical region)

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I lived in NZ for a while in the late nineties, and the idea of replacing the flag was up for discussion back then too.

Basing a new design on the silver fern was a popular choice, though there was some opposition, chiefly because it was already a sporting emblem and there were many who thought that a nation's identity should not simply ride on the coat-tails of its national sport.

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"Basing a new design on the silver fern was a popular choice, though there was some opposition, chiefly

because it was already a sporting emblem "

That and because it's heavily trademarked by various entities....

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Is it any flappier than its predecessor?

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Anonymous Coward

Can you burn it without fuss and bother.

America - I'm looking at you...

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@ AC

Can you burn it without fuss and bother.

I think that there are many here who would burn it regardless of the "fuss and bother". (Not me, my urine is not sufficiently flammable for such a task!)

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Anonymous Coward

Me no understand

Why didn't they just add the current flag to the list of options, and saved themselves a second vote if, having seen the alternatives, voters happened to like the old one better?

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Re: Me no understand

Or for a laugh, add the Aussie flag instead and see how many noticed

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Re: Me no understand

Because they're idiots who want to force their own agendas ahead of public opinion and realistic national debate. They want to present it as a fait accompli in the hope people don't realise they were voting in the pointless vote before the real one. This is why they spanked $20M- odd already.

I don't really care about the kiwi flag, much as I'm pretty indifferent to flags in general. People who get excited about them are usually extremist in their views, not realising it's a lump of cloth, not the actual ideologies and body of the country embodied. If more people want a new one than not, that's nice for them. Perhaps a fucking great QR code would be good, one that pointed to gov.nz, or to the All Blacks website.

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Re: Me no understand

Because the voters in favour of changing the flag would be split five ways, against one option for those in favour of the status quo.

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Money

Isn't it amazing how governments can spend millions on frippery while at the same time bemoaning they have no money for health care, housing and education...

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Missing the point.

The whole point of a flag is that you can identify the nation from a distance. That applies equally whether you're looking at the flag on a ship on the horizon, or trying to see your football team's flag in the corner of the pub TV on holiday.

New Zealand's complex new flag fails this test miserably. Mind you, their old flag was just as bad, and far too easily confused with Australia's.

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Linux

I Like the Swirly One

I like the swirly one. Too bad they didn't pick it. I think it would be fabulous to have a flag based on the Debian logo.

Penguin because well, Debian logo flag, and New Zealand has real penguins.

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Re: I Like the Swirly One

Swirly = Debian logo = coffee stain of quality:

http://dilbert.com/strip/1996-06-11

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Boffin

In This Thread?

Fun With Flags!

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Point to note: None of the five options presented for the poll was the existing flag, i.e. the question "do you wish to keep the present flag" was not asked; also none of the five options presented contained a union jack as any component of the proposed new flags.

This is the answer to a a nonsense poll.

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(Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

That's one of the opponents' objections. They could actually have asked if any flag change at all was wanted right from the off, and then asked for new designs if the people said yes.

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That's one of the opponents' objections.

But the people behind this will be a small, noisey political elite with a pre-judged conclusion, probably that the existing flag has to go. If they'd started off asking "do you want a new flag?", they know the debate would have been closed off forever because nobody would have bothered to vote, and any outcome would have had no legitimacy. By doing it this way round, they create the debate with a prospective winner.

Of itself, as a Brit I don't have a problem with them changing their flag, and the "winning" design is pleasantly distinctive. But if I were a Kiwi I wouldn't like the manipulative way it has been done. But then again, what can we expect from the lying, thieving, self interested turds that are our political classes?

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"the people behind this will be a small, noisy political elite with a pre-judged conclusion"

As a Canadian who was around at the time we got the red maple leaf, I think this more accurately describes those who wanted to keep the original.

My father always complained about being given a passport that described him as a "British Subject."

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News cycle

Since when has this had ANYTHING to do with being practical and sensible?

It's a massive (and rather pricey) distraction so Key and Co and continue looting the national silver. Which apparently all OK, as long as mom and pop get to buy a little of it too.

Try and get a referendum about an actual issue, that'll get buggered about like no-ones business. Want to distract everyone? Lets all discuss what flag we want, then have a shortlist, then have a campaign to get stuff added to the shortlist, then a referendum to choose the choice, then an actual vote on the flag, and then no doubt an appeal (legal or public) if things don't go the way someone wants.....

And all this time the actual governing of the country, the Nats being huger than usual shits, just gets ignored.

Goddamn distraction politics and USA style divide-and-rule works wonders in MMP.

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Well thats the primary school competition done

I'd be interested to see how it looks when someone who has some design experience beyond those postcards you find in telephone boxes gets to work on it.

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Re: Well thats the primary school competition done

The "postcards" in the few phone boxes that still exist round my way were most definitely NOT designed by children.

They'd certainly make for a more interesting national flag though...

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Wow - flag nerd fest

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Wait until Sheldon joins the debate ...

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WTF?

This looks like some sort of plot out of Mordor.

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Bah!

Bloody ingrate antipodean mutinous dogs! How dare they flaunt their childish throwing off of the guiding hand of Benevolent British Rule?

Time to show them the Iron Fist in the Iron Glove!

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(Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

Time to show them the Iron Fist in the Iron Glove!

With a titanium knuckleduster, methinks.

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Anonymous Coward

Low for a constitutional issue

Well I damned well wanted to vote on this, but I'm not allowed to because I must first prove my identity as part of the online process which apparently requires visiting a post office in New Zealand, FFS.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Low for a constitutional issue

If you choose not to live there then what right do you have to vote there?

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Bad Example

I'm saddened to hear that New Zealand is being tempted to follow the bad example of my own country, Canada, which changed its flag to one without the Union Jack under Pearson, back in 1965. However, Canada did this without a referendum; had one been held, likely the change would not have passed, as it was widely viewed as a sop to the feelings of the French minority in Quebec.

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Re: Good Bad Example

"... as it was widely viewed as a sop to the feelings of the French minority in Quebec."

And look how well that sop soaked up the vinaigre! Not at all. The problem with acceding to the somewhat random current demands of "change is needed!" groups, where the only constant is they want to stay on the podium forever, and so there are always new 'changes' needed following thereafter.

I rather like the idea of presidents/etc. having only one term of office, perhaps at 1.5 the length of the old shorter terms. Can we also wish that the 'change' people were also limited to one movement per decade say?

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If anyone needs a new flag, its Poland

Poland's flag is exactly the same as Indonesia's or a flipped over version of Monaco's.

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Re: If anyone needs a new flag, its Poland

And Ireland's flag and that of Cote d'Ivoire are pretty much the same.

Which caused some concern during the last soccer world cup.

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/linfield-shop-sign-tricolour-is-ivory-coast-not-republic-of-ireland-flag-30357592.html

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Re: If anyone needs a new flag, its Poland

Russia, France and the Netherlands suffer a similar problem.

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Go

Any New Zealand flag without a sheep on it is just not representative of the country!!

Or maybe hobbits, those guys seem to come from New Zealand.

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Re: Any New Zealand flag without a sheep on it is just not representative of the country!!

"Or maybe hobbits, those guys seem to come from New Zealand."

Yes, you wouldn't even need the whole hobbit. A flag with just a couple of big hairy feet on it would suffice - and it would look great going round the track at the opening ceremony of the Olympics.

Re those black and white versions - don't they look vaguely piratical? Maybe have Cap'n Jack Sparrow as the flag bearer at the Olympics if they choose one of those.

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