back to article Grow up, judge tells EFF: You’re worse than a complaining child

A district judge last week denied two activist groups the chance to file a supporting motion in a copyright case. In a stinging and derisive rejoinder, he compared their complaints to those of a spoilt boy. His boy. It’s part of a court case that stateside ISPs and rights-holders are watching with keen interest. Cox …

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Hate-painting the EFF weakens one of the few remaining *active* defenders people have here.

There is a big, important DMCA safe harbour fight with nasty implications going on here, and every other journalist leads with that. It's not even mentioned here. The important thing is that the Judge hated something the author hates because Google (actually, seriously).

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Anonymous Coward

@Daggerchild

"There is a big, important DMCA safe harbour fight with nasty implications"

You mean, the Internet is Breaking?

But it isn't at all. Cox refuses to kick off Torrenters who breach T&Cs they have signed up to. Remember that clause that said you agreed that said you abide by the network rules?

Yeah. That one.

Your use name is "Daggerchild" - are you really a child with a dagger? The second part sounds right.

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Hello Anonymous Coward. No, the Internet isn't breaking. Have a nice day.

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Somebody better arrest me then

We have an app on our daughter's tablet which gives her a generous amount of time per day of unrestricted activity. When the time is up it restricts her to using only things like overdrive or kindle reading apps. Access to youtube netflix etc is blocked.

Is denying her access to AmyLee33 Minecraft vidoes REALLY a violation of her human rights?

REALLY?

I'm with the judge - stop whining.

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Re: Somebody better arrest me then

Comparing parental oversight and guidance to this situation isn't particularly sensible.

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Re: Somebody better arrest me then

If your daughter is a minor you are exercising your parental rights. It has nothing to do with matters of law. Stop whining.

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“Frankly, it sounded like my son complaining when I took his electronics away when he watched YouTube videos instead of doing homework. And it's completely hysterical.”

That's a bit harsh. Maybe his homework was not teaching him much of any general use about electronics so he got his soldering iron out and resorted to YouTube.

Bit of a crap move on his part but rather than taking his electronics away I might have been inclined to show him how to use the intertubes to do a bit of meaningful research... prior to going down the school and wasting a few teachers for not doing their job properly.

We could also chill out on the Pron thing.

.... Unless .SNR II is expecting .JNR III to enter the legal profession.

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No, Mr. Judge

It's not like taking your kids internet away because he watches youtube instead of doing homework.

It's like taking the internet away from your family of six because one kid watches youtube instead of doing his homework.

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Re: No, Mr. Judge

A common tactic used to stamp out individual bad behaviour within a group is to punish the group as a whole. The idea being that the group will then begin self-police to remove the bad behaviour.

It often works quite well.

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Re: No, Mr. Judge

"It often works quite well."

So long as it doesn't backfire and everybody act up on behalf of having been punished unfairly. There's a fine line.

[How I know? I went to boarding school where this was a favourite method of dealing with problems; and sometimes it went very wrong...]

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No, Mr. Judge

"A common tactic used to stamp out individual bad behaviour within a group is to punish the group as a whole. The idea being that the group will then begin self-police to remove the bad behaviour.

It often works quite well."

Maybe they should cut off the town completely, in theory this will work even better?

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Re: "punish the group as a whole"

You are aware that article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention specifically forbids collective punishment?

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Re: No, Mr. Judge

"A common tactic used to stamp out individual bad behaviour within a group is to punish the group as a whole. The idea being that the group will then begin self-police to remove the bad behaviour.

It often works quite well."

Please, the next you are having a problem with a co-worker, let your boss know that you approve of this method of punishment.

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Re: No, Mr. Judge

It can only be used on children, or those acting like one.

Internet a human right? My big, fat, sweaty, hairy arse it is.

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Coat

Re: No, Mr. Judge

I think the commentards here have missed the point: yugguy isn't advocating this approach, just pointing out that it can be used as an effective tactic. It is illegal for exactly the same reason (and that it's somewhat regressive to punish the weakest members of any group by giving them the alternatives of being outcasts or forced to comply with group norms).

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Pay as you use?

In the UK you can have your electricity and/or gas supply cut off. It's very unusual but it can happen. This would seem a more essential human right than internet access.

In fact what's more likely to happen is the utility will install a pre-pay meter:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/problems-with-your-energy-supply/if-youve-been-told-your-energy-supply-will-be-disconnected/

Perhaps the same measure could be applied to proven offenders. So a bit of light browsing, shopping, filling in forms, short calls, relatively inexpensive. Downloading/uploading gigabytes of pirated material becomes prohibitively expensive?

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Re: Pay as you use?

I inherited pre-pay Leckie and Gas meters from the previous tenant and can't afford to swap 'em out, so I'm left paying 20% more than I would do if I had your right to switch supplier.

Now if your proposed 'improval' was in place I'd likely be banned from having internet too. Draconian laws are never implemented sensibly, they are always implemented to squeeze the poor for the benefit of the corporates. The internet was a leveller, and you are Charles I.

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Re: Pay as you use?

Here in France it is not legal to disconnect an electricity supply for non payment. The solution is to replace the meter with one that trips out if the occupant draws more than a kilowatt. That tends to concentrate people on sorting out the problem. No coffee? No hot water? No coffee? No heating? No coffee? Argh!

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Anonymous Coward

Don't be a sheeple

People should investigate who the EFF is and who's interest they represent. Hint: They do not represent the best interest of the populace.

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You don't want to do that, you want to do this

"In just over a decade Randall Munroe has become firmly established and it’s safe to say adored as the author of xkcd."

And yet look how he did achieved that:

" This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License.

This means you're free to copy and share these comics (but not to sell them)."

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In reality, ISPs are deeply ambivalent about high volume torrenters. Privately, they will readily acknowledge that the hardcore torrenters rack up most of their costs, and cause most of the congestion on their networks.

I'm not sure that this is the case. As I understand it, ISP's pay for capacity (ie, an availability to shift a certain amount of data/second); not per-megabyte. The extra cost comes in when everyone's sucking hard on the pipes at the same time and you have to buy more capacity. I'd contend that Netflix -where it is essential that you not only serve the bytes; but have to serve them at a minimum rate- would cost ISPs more. Torrenters aren't so much of a problem because they can be throttled at peak times and let them go for it during slack periods with not too much in the way of squawking and at no extra cost. Steam and similar game outfits are also going to be shifting some serious data and there is, again, a minimum rate that's acceptable if you're playing multiplayer.

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Let me get this straight, Andrew. Do you think it's right to be deprived of anything "based on nothing more than unadjudicated, unverified, unreliable allegations of civil wrongdoing"?

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