back to article Windows 10 is FORCING ITSELF onto domain happy Windows 7 PCs

Windows 7 PCs are being force fed a diet of Windows 10, breaking a promise made by Microsoft. The problem is affecting domain-attached Windows 7 PCs not signed up to Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) for patches and updates, but looking for a Microsoft update instead. The upshot is PCs, ranging from 10s to hundreds at a …

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    1. Hellcat

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Zero sympathy here either. People doing half a job on the cheap causing issues for themselves, or the poor sod who takes over in in the future.

      Putting computers and users into a managed domain then leaving the updates to esentially the consumer arm of Microsoft? If you can't afford to do it properly in the MS model don't do it. Use any of the cheaper or free methods.Use linux. Use local accounts. Same for people losing the last (and only) DC in their AD forest - Let me show you my symapthetic face.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: blaming slack admins for this one

        If you can't afford to do it properly in the MS model don't do it.

        Woah. Adding insult to injury.

        Is this the MS-customer version of "she had it coming"?

      2. justausername

        Re: blaming slack admins for this one

        What about the small business that installs Windows Server Essentials... Guess what they are forced into having a domain that they didn't want. Get a life you troll.

    2. Alistair Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Please don't blame the Slack admins, Patrick V has bugger all to do with MS's crap.

    3. Stephen 11
      Stop

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      WSUS is free... This is not completely true.

      WSUS is "free" IF the client devices you want to connect to the WSUS server are already covered by CALs.

      CALs are required to each device that connects to the WSUS server. If you don't have the required CALS, suddenly WSUS is not so free after all.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Given that WSUS is free, easy to set up and takes up very little space / resources then I kind of have no sympathy for admins who aren't running it.

      Bullshit! It requires a 20+GB disk, RAM and CPU dedicated to run a Windows 2008 server on, the license for which is NOT free.

      If it were a tarball that I could download, roll into a .deb package and install on the Linux server here, then I'd agree with you, however, it isn't, which means we'd need to procure hardware and software for a server dedicated to the task of providing this service.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      I think "Free" belongs in scare quotes, as it requires running a current version of Windows Server. Which is, in fact, the opposite of Free.

      I agree that sites with a on-site sysadmin should deploy WSUS if they are already running the excellent Server 2012, for just the cost of a few hours work and some disk space. People stuck on older server platforms, or without windows servers, or supporting offsite workers, (or how many other scenarios) may have legitimate reasons for their decision to hold off.

      This stings even more as they promised that domain connected windows clients wouldn't auto update to 10. If Windows 10 is launching on time but half-baked, perhaps it would be a smarter marketing strategy to hold off on the "Long March" upgrade push untill they fix a few things?

    6. Halfmad Silver badge

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Then again it could be argued that if they don't have the money for a reasonable (free) infrastructure) then they're getting a more secure OS free.

      I'm struggling to see why so many are up in arms about an upgrade that you have to opt in to get to begin with which is free, more secure, doesn't require retraining (despite what the linux/mac fanboys say).

      It's just the usual el'reg MS flame, nothing new just a slightly different topic, last time it was Windows 8.. now it's windows 10.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder....

    ...how "automatically" blocked they are? Is it blocked UNLESS the user decides to go off and "sign up" to the install, i.e. tick the box saying they want it?

  2. Roland6 Silver badge
    Pint

    "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

    A song for MS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDc_5zpBj7s

    (Lyric's here for those without sound or on low speed connections: http://www.directlyrics.com/meghan-trainor-lips-are-moving-lyrics.html)

    1. VinceH

      Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

      Well that's annoyingly catchy. I even let it play all the way through. I take it that's what 'the kids' are listening to these days?

      (As an aside, it's nice to see the singer isn't a skinny little wretch leading her fans to go on pointless diets)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

        So overweight is a better role model than underweight?

        I'd rather have a healthy-weighted active person as the role model myself...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

          I don't have any problem with her weight.

          I do, however, have a problem with autotune.

          If you can't sing, choose a different career.

          1. keithpeter
            Childcatcher

            Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

            "I do, however, have a problem with autotune."

            It has become used as an *effect* deliberately I gather from younger people I speak to. Like vo-coders in the 80s.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Toastan Buttar

            Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

            Meghan Traynor has a fantastic natural voice. If she ever uses Autotune, it would only be for an obvious effect.

        2. VinceH

          Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

          I'd guesstimate that she's around a size 11 or 12. Overweight? Perhaps, but if she is it's only mildly so - and as such, she's a far better role model than some skeleton with a bit of skin stretched over it.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They won't get in any trouble over this

    I bet MS won't get in any trouble over this.

    Unless it actually installs itself without any user interaction, they will just claim it's an optional update that you can choose not to install. If it downloads itself that's pretty bad as it's wasting bandwidth for people who don't want it. But unless it actually installs without the user knowing (impossible really) then they'll probably get away with it.

    If you follow the installation procedure, you're agreeing to install it, and knowingly doing so, as far as they're concerned.

  4. Frank N. Stein

    Looks like I may indeed end up having to support Windows 10 sooner, rather than later. Good thing I got the upgrade on launch day and am familiar with it. As for Microsoft breaking it's promise, that was to be expected. Most competent shops should be pointing all of their PC's to WSUS server and should've had this under control, but if this is happening to domain connected PC's that are pointed to internal WSUS server, then this is going to be a nightmare for Microsoft and anyone who has to support Windows Networks.

    1. Bob Dole (tm)

      >>Most competent shops should be pointing all of their PC's to WSUS server and should've had this under control...

      It has very little to do with competence on the part of the shops and a lot to do with resources. A large number of businesses are of the small variety. I'd wager to say that the vast majority of businesses out there are.

      Would you advocate that a small business who runs say less than 20 PCs should have a WSUS server sitting in the corner? My business doesn't have *any* server on site - and we're a development shop. Everything we do is hosted. Source control, documents, email, etc - all hosted. So I don't even have a spare machine to run some dank program whose only job would have been to stop this one update.

      On every single one of our machines we said No to the update. We uninstalled the KB that even asks for the update. Yet, every single one of our machines have downloaded windows 10 in the background and demanded to install itself.

      Not only do I not want Windows 10 ( 7 has been perfect ), but with it's insane privacy policies and the agreements we have with our customers I'm not 100% certain that we could continue to conduct business if we install it.

      This is a just complete BS and certainly makes me start to rethink our adherence to their platform.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        can you elaborate?

        "Not only do I not want Windows 10 ( 7 has been perfect ), but with it's insane privacy policies and the agreements we have with our customers I'm not 100% certain that we could continue to conduct business if we install it."

        I raised that issue with my boss, and while he said he turned all of the (known) reporting settings off, he doesn't think its an issue for our relationships with our clients...

        1. Bob Dole (tm)

          Re: can you elaborate?

          Our agreements with our clients forbid us from ever letting their information out of our direct control.

          So, let's say one of my support people pulls some customer data out of the app to a local excel file in order to work through issues. MS claims that with Windows 10 they will pull even private files and push them up to their cloud for essentially whatever reason they want.

          At the point this occurs we're in breach because we've let that data go to a third party. Now I don't foresee people suing about this particular thing. However if a large contract ever gets to the point that lawyers need to be involved and the other side's attorneys are aware of what Windows 10 does under the covers then my company is screwed.

          Given how MS tried their best to hide those privacy settings, it would be trivial for a machine to be set up where the person doing the installation accidentally skipped it.

          Yeah, sorry, but we're not going to get on that bus with MS.

        2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: can you elaborate?

          The problem is not you clicked the settings once but whether MS will reset them (partially at least) in the future without your knowledge. If they disrespect business customer's needs now why should one expect their behavior to be better in the future.

  5. Calum Morrison

    They're sneaky even to WSUS users

    MS seem to keep "improving" the update kbs (for there are several) and re-releasing them; I've had to reject them several times now on my WSUS server. Anyone not paying attention could accidentally approve them.

    It's bad enough having my creatives whining every five minutes that Adobe have farted out an absolutely-must-have 300Gb update to CC ("because all the companies we share files with already upgraded last night and now we have compatibility issues!") without having the same from MS. Happy Friday everyone.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

      These KBs are just being downloaded time and time again...

      KB3035583 - GWX Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1

      KB2952664 - Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7

      KB2976978 - Compatibility update for Windows 8.1 and Windows 8

      KB3021917 - Update to Windows 7 SP1 for performance improvements

      KB3022345 - Telemetry [Replaced by KB3068708]

      KB3068708 - Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

      I suppose the way around for home users is to install WSUS on their own computer at home. Should this really be necessary?

      As I ranted before, the fuckers have turned Windows Update into Coupon Monkey adware.

      1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

        @Dan 55, re: KBA list.

        Thank you for that list of KBA's to watch for. I'd already found most of them, clicked the "More Information" link, learned that they were MS attempting to shove Win10 up my arse, & disabled them with extreme prejudice. Then I went through the already installed updates Just To Be Sure & uninstalled the ones I'd missed.

        I was already wary of "upgrading" before MS irons out all the bugs & bullshit, so for them to keep pushing to get it installed just makes me resist even more. I've already configured WinUpDate to merely let me know that updates are available but NOT to download them (much less auto-apply them) so I can manually determine which updates (if any) get applied. I'm getting seriously Sick & Fekkin Tired of having to deny all the attempts to force an upgrade on me, and I wish there were a way to send a few trillion amps back through the network to zot the pricks that think this forced-upgrade-idea is a good idea.

        *Sigh*

      2. dkersten

        Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

        Those are all KB's for the reservation or prep files, but so far I haven't found a KB that is 3+ gigs in size, so which one is forcing the 3+ gig download? If you go to a computer that is downloading it, you can see the update icon in the tray and if you arrow over it you can see it is downloading, but you can't click it or change it. If you open windows updater it isn't there, and it acts like nothing else is going on at all. There is no installed KB for the download either, and since it doesn't show up at all in the list of updates available, there is no way to hide it or stop it.

        I know windows updater is downloading it because the icon and because I can do a net stop wuauserv and it will stop downloading, but as soon as updater is started again it starts downloading again.

        I have read hundreds of posts from people troubleshooting this but nobody has found the KB for the download yet. Perhaps you see more if you have WSUS installed and set up? You certainly can't do anything on the client side. Once it starts, you can either stop the updater completely or ride it out.

      3. Wensleydale Cheese

        Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

        "I suppose the way around for home users is to install WSUS on their own computer at home. Should this really be necessary?"

        There's also WSUS Offline

        I've used this in the past to update systems on slow broadband connections and it worked well for that, but I have no idea if it's up to the job of squashing the Win10 update related patches.

    2. Mpeler
      Pint

      Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

      "Adobe have farted out an absolutely-must-have 300Gb update to CC"....

      Have a beer (or a few). That made my day.

      Between "Flush", "Acrobat-ty" and "Creative Crud" I'm getting tired of all the updates and patches, and now it seems M$ want to do it behind my back as well. Oh, Joy.....

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    I thought Windows 10 in-built P2P network prevented gobbling of t'internet bandwidth as machines on the LAN shared out the MSFT goodness?

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Devil

      thought Windows 10 in-built P2P network prevented gobbling of t'internet

      After Win7 is wiped. This is running on Win7

      But probably that system has bugs anyway...

    2. dkersten

      the p2p thing stops updates from gobbling up MS's bandwidth, but shifts it to the consumers. Unless you disable it, your bandwidth (once using windows 10) is feeding updates to other consumers. As stated though, this download is not in windows 10, it is the files for windows 10 that MS is shoving down our throats, with no way to stop it once started and it is happening even to computers on domain controllers, even though it isn't supposed to.

  7. MrXavia

    And I have the evil windows 8.1 but it won't download and install windows 10...

    ironic that many get it who don't want it,but I want it but can't get it... (seriously windows 10 HAS to be better than 8.1)

    1. Hellcat

      Did you try downloading and running the update tool?

      http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

      1. MrXavia

        Not yet, I will be giving that a try shortly.....

        I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?"

          No, a logic Nazi who knows that the statement that W10 has to be better than W8 is hyperbolic - there is no physical law that requires iteration n+1 of any Microsoft (or indeed any) product to be better than iteration n. In fact Hutber's Law of Economics states "Improvement causes deterioration."

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?"

            Did you mean N+2?

            1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

              Re: "I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?"

              Did you mean N+2?

              No, the Windows version-numbering system is base-9.

        2. joed

          probably someone who thinks that the "cure" is worse than the disease.

          8.1 may be far from perfect but has much fewer privacy tradeoffs compared to 10. Myself (on 8 and 8.1) I'm not planning to move (and keep fighting the nag). Good start menu replacement (if needed) is actually better from what 10 has to offer

      2. dmacleo

        I forced that on on domain joined wsus controlled win7 pro machine and am on win 10 now.

        and the win7 pro license was a technet license too.

        seems when on domain the install choices don't just default to the express installs and updates are not blindly applied either.

        so somewhat good news I guess.

        if acronis 2015 with parallels access installed need to uninstall parallels to get classic shell to work.

        been using it for 3-4 days 14-18 hours a day and I a fairly ambivalent about it.

        do need to take a few moments to run a query on the wsus machine to make it so win10 machines stop listing as vista installed, however even with that wsus is rolling out the correct win10 updates to it.

        biggest complaint I have so far is no rsat for win 10 yet and forcing versions that worked on the previews does not work.

        so as it stands I guess I would not have issue with clients being on win 10 but I would not waste time trying to force them to win10.

        but I am small domain here, 6 clients here and 9 at the church I volunteer at.

  8. The Alphabet

    So the only way to absolutely guarantee to not get forced to Windows 10 (or even have the option to be prompted to it, blocked or not) is to downgrade to Vista?

    1. Hellcat

      That won't guarantee anything.

      You must return your PC equipment to the place of purchase, sell all your wordly goods, give away the money to charity and move to a uninhabited island in a remote location. Scotland for example.

      1. PNGuinn
        Linux

        That won't guarantee anything. @Hellcat

        Or install Mint. Or Debian or...

        The way this is unfolding I wonder how many small and not so small shops will begin to ask serious questions about how much they really need microsoft.

        1. Wensleydale Cheese

          Re: That won't guarantee anything. @Hellcat

          "The way this is unfolding I wonder how many small and not so small shops will begin to ask serious questions about how much they really need microsoft."

          At the end of the day it boils down to risk control and being able to manage that risk yourselves.

          Microsoft have clearly demonstrated here that they don't really give a monkeys how they might disrupt your business, at which point I am forced to look elsewhere so that I can continue to manage risk.

        2. John Tserkezis

          Re: That won't guarantee anything. @Hellcat

          "The way this is unfolding I wonder how many small and not so small shops will begin to ask serious questions about how much they really need microsoft."

          Unfortunately, the smaller the shop, the less likely they're going to be aware of *nix options, irregardless if it works out for the better.

    2. Col_Panek

      You can upgrade to Linux instead.

      1. dkersten

        "You can upgrade to Linux instead."

        And who pays to train my 135 employees who have to call in and ask for their password because they didn't know what caps lock was for? You actually think throwing a whole different OS at them is going to help anyone other than the administrators? It's a great theory, right up until you think about actually applying it.

        The irony is the same thing goes for windows 10.. MS thinks it's a great idea to reinvent the GUI every couple years, but when you have 10, 100, 1,000 or more employees who aren't technologically capable to begin with, what company would spend the money to retrain and support the changes that often? I still know of a lot of companies on windows XP simply because the cost to train and reprogram custom apps is ten times the cost of upgrading the OS/hardware. I *might" make the change to windows 10 before the window for the free upgrade is up, but at this point I have no resources or time for a major change like that.

        1. nematoad Silver badge

          Wot.

          " You actually think throwing a whole different OS at them is going to help anyone other than the administrators?"

          Oh you mean like Windows 8 for example?

          1. dkersten

            Re: Wot.

            "" You actually think throwing a whole different OS at them is going to help anyone other than the administrators?""

            "Oh you mean like Windows 8 for example?"

            That's exactly what I mean. Windows 8, 8.1, 10... I spent 3 years transitioning from XP to Win 7, and that wasn't too terrible because the interfaces are nearly identical with only some minor graphics changes to the start button. I wish it still said "start" because every single day someone calls in and I say "OK, click the start button and..." and get interrupted with "What's the start button?" "Oh, I mean the start orb." "The what?" "That blue button on the bottom left of your computer screen."

            If I could just get employees who understand the button on the bottom left is the 'start' button (and have them understand the difference between right and left clicks) I would eliminate 50% of the time spent on trouble calls.

            Every few weeks I scour eBay looking for license keys for Office 2010 because I am NOT going to retrain people to use 2013 (or deal with all the bugs it has), and I sure as hell am not going to rent Office from MS for 3x what it costs to own it for 4 years.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

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