back to article Windows 10 Edge: Standards kinda suck yet better than Chrome?

Weary old web warhorse Internet Explorer (known to thousands of Reg readers' spouses and parents up and down the land simply as "the internet") is destined soon for the dustbin of tech history. After decades of dominance through proprietary lock-in and anti-trust-busted software bundling, the monster lurking in web developer …

  1. sabroni Silver badge

    Re: Forking ridiculous

    Without multiple rendering engines the html5 standards would just become "what webkit does". Multiple engines following the same standards should keep the standards clear and sensible.

    I'm not too keen on Google taking over where IE6 left off....

  2. phil dude
    Paris Hilton

    Strange advert....

    This is a strange advert that proclaims "our new browser will be brilliant compared to our old browser, but to use it you will have to buy into our crufty, malware desktop environment".

    It is not opensource, so it cannot be trusted. It doesn't run on other platforms so why would anyone *choose* this browser unless they had no choice?

    Oh yeah. Free market. right....

    P.

  3. dogged

    Re: Strange advert....

    > It is not opensource, so it cannot be trusted.

    Neither is most of Android. Your point?

  4. phil dude
    Linux

    Re: Strange advert....

    @dogged: *most* of android...?

    Citation please.

    You will get no argument from me about Android's creepy "blobs".

    But surely an open-source browser is the absolute minimum for a sane world?

    P.

  5. dogged

    Re: Strange advert....

    Google Play. Functionality has been shifted away from "Android" and into Google Play continuously since Gingerbread. It's almost as if Google have decided that open source was a bad idea.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Strange advert....

    Hmm, you said most. Take a custom rom or AOSP and run it on the phone and you'd be hard pressed to notice any significant differences at first. SUre you won't find Google services but you can still download and run apps and the core functionality is still there, definitely not "most".

  7. RoninRodent

    Re: Strange advert....

    That is (according to them) an effort to push security fixes when phone carriers can't be bothered to deploy android updates and suggest you buy a new phone to get the latest.

    Admittedly I have not checked but it does make sense.

  8. DougS Silver badge

    Re: Strange advert....

    They claim that, but the real reason is quite different. By stripping Android proper of more and more functionality, it is harder for a phone OEM to go Google-free and take just Android. Google doesn't want that because they obviously don't make money giving away Android, but rake it in invading your privacy and delivering ads to you.

    They make parts of it open source, but stuff like Maps and everything related to ad delivery is closed source. Pretty sure Chrome is open source, but that's mostly irrelevant - every Android user is running closed source code written by Google that does who knows what. The fact you have source to a lot of other stuff is no more relevant than the fact that significant parts of iOS (the BSD Mach layer, not the GUI obviously) and WebKit from the browser are open source. Open source is all or nothing, once you are running a mixture you may as well be running all closed source.

  9. mmeier

    Given that 15+ year old bugs have recently been found in some much used Open Source has

    I doubt that it really matters. The "Million Eye Army" is, for a number of reasons, a myth.

    Reading other peoples code is difficult enough if the work in the same company and use the same naming/coding/documentation rules that you use. Reading other peoples code, even worse from multiple sources and standards, is something most people simply do not do.

    There is a reason most long term stable OS software is backed by a single "big player" that sets the rules and does the major contribution. And another why "we rewrote much of it" is more common in OS projects as well.

  10. DougS Silver badge

    Re: Given that 15+ year old bugs have recently been found in some much used Open Source has

    You don't need to have everyone read the code, only a few people. There will always be enough people looking at the open source parts of Android, simply due to its importance. That doesn't guarantee they find all security issues of course, but it guarantees Google can't hide anything nasty within it. It is open source software with much smaller userbases that are more of a problem, because there may not be anyone motivated to examine the code.

  11. mmeier

    Worked fine with a totally unimportant thing named X Window System

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/10/x_window_system_bugs/

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's the same Trident crap

    Nothing to see here, move long. Download a better browser. In fact, the new browser called Vivaldi seems quite excellent despite still being in technical preview. You should check it out.

    Edge, like IE, has only one purpose: to be used to download another browser.

    I'm not impressed with the bundled Microsoft stuff e.g. Bing, Onedrive, and I sure am not impressed with the 'feature' to scribble on web pages in Edge. Microsoft always has a penchant for these exotic, non-mainstream stuff it likes to call 'innovation'. Remember Web Slices from IE7 or IE8? What was that about?

  13. mmeier

    Re: It's the same Trident crap

    OneDrive is nice. Better integrated than DropBox and easier in sharing pictures than Amazon. And with MS you are still the customer, not the trade good.

  14. dogged

    > In fact, the new browser called Vivaldi

    Is actually a fancy shell on an old browser called "WebKit" which uses hundreds of proprietary extensions and is the single biggest danger of browser monoculture.

    There, fixed that for you.

    Vivaldi is also shit and highly crashy. You forgot to mention that, AC.

  15. Aoyagi Aichou

    @dogged

    > Vivaldi is also shit

    How? It's already better than Chrome (which isn't exactly a high bar, but it's widely accepted as "pretty good")

  16. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Vivaldi is also shit and highly crashy

    Running so much of the UI in Javascript makes it a bit slow but the usability is coming along nicely. I haven't had it crash yet.

  17. tony2heads
    WTF?

    "IE fans"

    do such people exist?

  18. dogged

    Re: "IE fans"

    No.

    In general MS products do not have fans (XBox seems to be the exception). They're just things you use to do stuff with.

    This seems impossible to grasp for those who have declared affection for other tech manufacturers or advertising bureaux but it's true. MS doesn't have fans beyond some frankly rather embarrassing idiots on wpcentral. I know that frustrates them but it's true.

    Could be worse though, Satya. You could be universally despised (note - the Reg's comment boards do not count as "universal"). Like Oracle.

  19. mmeier

    Computers and OS are tools not bands

    One chooses a tool set that does the work efficiently with the least effort and the smallest amount of different tools necessary. That can be Solaris for reliable, long term stable servers, Oracle for handling large amounts of data and reliable data replication or Windows for a desktop that runs the business and privat software with no fuss, no third party tools, no extra configuration. Or something else for whatever reasons.

    Fan(atict)s are are problem and what they praise is best avoided

  20. Howard Hanek
    Meh

    Makes a Great Gift

    It's like getting that elaborately packaged gift with nothing inside.....except an IOU.

  21. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Windows

    Edge on Win 7?

    Possible?

  22. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

    Re: Edge on Win 7?

    I've been wondering about that too. I do know that Windows 8.1U1 is the end of the line here, myself. So far there's been zero uptake on the previews where I provide support. <Shrug>

  23. bobgameon

    Re: Edge on Win 7?

    I don't think so. Edge is a Universal App developed for both Phone and PC. Last I checked 7 doesn't have the UWP API's. And adding those APIs will require a major update.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    10 ain't done till Chrome won't run...

    It is very easy if you own the operating system to make sure your browser works faster than the opposition's browser...undocumented APIs that only your own browser can use.

    Just like the old days, in fact, "DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run"...for those with long memories.

    Now you may say that they could have speeded up IE long ago, but at that point, the main aim was to try to slow the wholesale migration of computing onto the web, leaving the PC little more than a thin client.

    Now that is irreversible, they don't mind speeding it up to keep control of the Internet entry point on PCs.

    But I'm just an old fogey, take no notice.

  25. Shane 4

    Stability and speed please

    All I care about is NOT seeing, "internet explorer has stopped working".

    Give me a stable browser that can have at least 10 tabs open without one of them crashing, And then causing the page or tab to not be able to close, Usually requiring a complete browser shutdown and restart. Damn that was annoying in IE.

    I like IE's easy layout, Firefox's functions and Chromes speed, Now merge them all into one browser. ;)

  26. Stephen Wilkinson

    Developer Tools

    Much as I hate to say it, IE's Developer Tools seem to be more useful than Chrome's these days

  27. Nick L

    Re: Developer Tools

    Interested in this - could you expand a little, please? (Not trolling, genuinely interested)

  28. Indolent Wretch

    Very early on the author says this:

    >> Developers who adhere to web standards can safely ignore Edge

    The only people who say that understand nothing about development, design, testing, customer support and almost everything else there is to know about web development.

    Given that's the case is the rest of the article even worth reading?

  29. Canadian Geek

    Wading in...

    I'm another of the old guys. My first machine was a Commodore Vic-20! (long before the interwebs creation. Yes Darpa-net etc were out there but regular people had BBS's or nothing. 1200baud baby!) I then went to a DOS PC and have followed that train for a long time. (yes I've played with UNIX and Linux too) I used Netscape before it was cool, and when it began to suck I moved on. I have bounced around the different browsers over the years and the basic truth has come to me. They are all the same. Any differences are subtle and almost unnoticeable. I uninstalled Firefox a few years ago as I tired of having to upgrade it all the time. I currently have IE and Chrome on my i7 laptop and frankly Chrome is much slower than IE on my system. Now I'm not a gamer so my browsing is on forums and university sites for the most part. So I'm definitely not a power browser (whatever in hell that would be) but frankly I don't understand all the anger heaped on a web browser! If you don't like it, cool. Move on. But bit&*ing and moaning about it all the time seems silly to me.

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