back to article Windows 10 is due in one month: Will it be ready?

The release of Windows 10 is set for 29 July, just one month from now. It will be a significant moment, marking the first Windows 10 release in a wave that will eventually include Windows Mobile and Xbox, and is critically important to Microsoft following the poor reception for Windows 8. This time, Microsoft is not following …

Anonymous Coward

Re: How much control/flexibility over the free W10 download?

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/16/how-windows-10-achieves-its-compact-footprint/

TL;DR: This "compact footprint" means that Windows is now only 7.8GB of *compressed* filesystem, i.e. 12 CDs of compressed data. This makes it "lightweight and highly mobile"

Come off it Microsoft. Don't install all the crap. There's this thing called The Internet that users could download optional extensions through - if and when they need them.

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Re: How much control/flexibility over the free W10 download?

> Win 10 isn't available as an installable download that computer is well and truly stuffed

No, you can just download a repair/recovery disk from here..... http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php <G>

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FAIL

Re: There's this thing called The Internet...

Actually, no, there isn't.

If the installation media doesn't contain drivers that run your motherboard, graphics adapter, USB (multiple filesystems), SATA, PCI-E Flash, CD/DVD drive, NIC/WiFi, keyboard, mouse, touchscreen, as well as a browser, then you cannot go to the Internet and get it.

The core installation media has to support every single one of the above that Microsoft have ever heard of, as well as every combination thereof.

I've been sat with a Windows machine that didn't support its network card, and boy are you stuffed at that point if you don't have another computer and some way of transferring files.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's this thing called The Internet...

A 650MB Linux install CD manages to ship with drivers for pretty much anything. And if there's any special driver needed, you typically put it on a USB key and insert it during the installation (e.g. Debian works this way for the "non-free" drivers and firmware)

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Linux

I see

" We think of Windows as a Service..."

Well you might, but I would see it more as a rolling release distro.

Although a beta release at best.

See Gnu/Linux can teach others a thing or two.

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Windows

Re: I see

If home Windows is like Arch (a Linux rolling distro) then I suspect there will need to be a Manjaro available soon (Arch with a month or so delay on updated packages and a nice installer) to keep support costs sane.

I might just restore Windows 7 on the refurbished Dell laptop and see what happens. I'm behind on the newer Micrsoft things.

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Re: I see

"If home Windows is like Arch..."

Not really, I see it more like PCLinuxOS. A rolling release distro with a lot of easy to use tools.

Arch and Gentoo are for the hard-core enthusiasts, they take no prisoners and expect users to know what they are doing. PCLOS on the other hand is a bit more forgiving and Win 10 must be the same or I foresee tears before bedtime.

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Re: I see

Actually, that appears to be the plan... "as a service".. When the "supported lifetime" (6 months? 6 years?) ends, they'll roll out the new one and for only $XX per month, your PC will work. I'm seeing quite a bit of software moving into that business model and I'll be damned if I like it.

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Anonymous Coward

Will it be ready? Maybe, but ...

Meeting Microsoft's own development plan is one thing, and it's possible to form an opinion on whether or not they have the time to fix all the known flaws.

The big unknown to me is whether or not the end result will be acceptable, by which I mean whether or not those who comment loudly on new OSs (such as us here) think it's OK. If they don't think it's OK, then Microsoft are going to have trouble selling this thing.

Issues that bother me, and that I see no sign of Microsoft rectifying include:

# Loss of control of updates and the clear aim to use home users as beta testers forever.

# The fact that privacy and data-sharing settings default during installation to "Come and get me, baby".

# The need for a Microsoft Account for many features to work.

# Perceived poor functionality and performance of many of the apps.

I will say this - its better than Windows 8.1 from the outer view, but what's going on behind the scenes does worry me a little.

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Re: Will it be ready? Maybe, but ...

I've only just started playing with Windows 10, but that's pretty much my initial reaction.

Microsoft seems to have finally, after several false starts, totally abandoned any pretence that Windows is primarily a platform on which to run applications and turned it into a digital lifestyle cocoon. Apart from not wanting all of my data synced to OneDrive or sent to Microsoft for my convenience or "security", having got the start menu back, I don't really want half of its screen estate filled with stuff scraped from the internet every few minutes on the assumption that I have no attention sp.. Whoah! Taylor Swift!

Even the default titles for the tile groups in the start menu (like "play and explore") seem to be culled from kindergarten activities. Yes, I know you can change all of this, but it's wearisome when you have constantly to fight against been patronised or mugged for your data.

It's also alarmingly inconsistent. Right click on a start menu item and you get an apparently random selection of options (which don't include deleting the item), but drag it to the desktop and right-clicking the same icon gives you different options still (which do include deleting the item).

Microsoft seems to be struggling to find a place for Windows in an online world, or at least one that justifies its price tag, but I for one am not sold on data-slurping juvenilia for the Facebook generation.

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Re: Will it be ready? Maybe, but ...

My main opinion of Windows 10 is that it is really Windows 8.1 with even less respect for your privacy (Cortana does not work without surrendering your privacy and the search box searches with Bing first then your programs, settings, and files even if you turned of Bing universal search), a smaller version of the start screen, and multiple desktops. I realize there is a little more to that, but if I had to describe Win10 in a concise manner, that is what I would say.

The features people really want -- like a fully customizable start screen that was found in all other versions of Windows, the option to enable Aero, a proper backup program, the return of F8, and to stop calling programs "apps" -- are not there. Those are serious flaws.

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Re: Will it be ready? Maybe, but ...

> ...on the assumption that I have no attention sp.. Whoah! Taylor Swift!

Well, maybe "Amy Pond!!!!"

(although with what I'm watching right now it might be Misaka Mikoto instead).

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Come on peeps. You're missing the point. This is a strategic work generation program. If it was perfect there would be no need for puter mechanics and lots of IT bods would be out of a job.

You should be praising MS for releasing shit to keep food on your tables.

Personally I'm pleased I run no Windows boxen. Allows me to do something constructive with my life... :-)

ROFLMAO....

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"Personally I'm pleased I run no Windows boxen. Allows me to do something constructive with my life... :-)"

So you consider trolling Microsoft OS threads as something constructive ? Why would you even be remotely interested in reading a Windows 10 thread?

By the way, WTF is a "puter mechanic.."

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Trollface

A 'puter mechanic is the guy who does percussive maintenance on your PC box when the Internet is down (aka I can't Google anymore).

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Linuxers reading windows 10 threads...and commenting???

Personally I've used some distro or other of Linux 'almost' exclusively since 2000 (I say 'almost' as I was dual booting on occasion up until 2011 (and there's work, where I often have no choice).

I'm still interested in any new version of Windows enough to read most articles.

You never know, they might release something more compelling that what I'm currently using...

(and it's a better soap opera than anything currently on the telly)

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Gimp

" Why would you even be remotely interested in reading a Windows 10 thread?"

Apple aren't staging a 'queue round the block' release for their zombie crew at the moment.

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> So you consider trolling Microsoft OS threads as something constructive ? Why would you even be remotely interested in reading a Windows 10 thread?

Because you know as a professional and family computer tech you know you will end up having to support this train wreck?

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"for the supported lifetime of the device"

So roughly next September, then?

I'll stick with the Slackware distribution of Linux on the desktops, and BSD on the servers, thank you very much.

No muss, no fuss. It just works.

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Re: No muss, no fuss. It just works.

Linux on the Desktop "just works"? For you maybe. All you've really said there is "I understand the things I use all the time and thus can easily get them working to my satisfaction."

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Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

@Jake

@Jake

You managed to use "Slackware" and "No muss, no fuss. It just works." in the same comment..

Try proving that by giving a Slackware ISO to a newbie and allowing him to install by himself with "No muss, no fuss." Please make a video of his facial reactions after he inserts the ISO and reboots the PC...

Nothing nicer that the following for a newbie:

"If you need to pass extra parameters to the kernel"

"please select your Keymap"

"Partition the disk".

As a reminder Jake, the thread is about the upcoming Windows 10 release not about yet another example of why people hate Linux Beards for being prudish.

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Re: No muss, no fuss. It just works.

What you are saying is not much at all. What is it that you are struggling to do? (please confirm that you are able to do this on Windows as well as how to do it)

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Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

I thought all threads that mention Microsoft on theregister were where Windows people try to justify using their crapware and putting down anyone that uses Linux even though Linux is technically far better - "Beards", I mean come on... turn that round should you be called "prepubescent"?

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Windows

Re: Linux on the Desktop "just works"? .

"I understand the things I use all the time and thus can easily get them working to my satisfaction."

Not a Win 10 user, then?

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Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

Please don't use the word "Crapware" without first giving an indication of what you are talking about, please elaborate on the so called Crapware, do you have real world examples or smply those that you have heard about...

No-one is putting down "Linux Users", what is being put down is that attitude of Jake.... Jake does not represent "Linux Users" as a whole, case in point I use Linux on 4 of my home systems but my primary work machine remains a windows machine. ( not including a couple of RASPIs).

"Beards" is a relatively timid slant.. I am sure that most "Linux Users" are intelligent enought to simply brush their beards and forget the whimsical nature of the jest.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

"No muss, no fuss. It just works."

With the emphasis on "just" about ...

For 99% of users Windows is less hassle and a more sensible solution. What's the Linux desktop market share again? Oh, snap!

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Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

Windows is crapware. I do have real world examples comparing it with something much better:-

It is less scalable than Linux

It less secure than Linux

It is less performant than Linux

It is less stable than Liux

It has to be rebooted quite a lot

Closed source nature of Windows means that it is non portable

Bored now - the list goes on

Why use a slant "Beards" at all? I can think of other words that started as slants with reference to racial minorities (it is very small minded thinking!)....

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@Khaptain (was:Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device")

"Try proving that by giving a Slackware ISO to a newbie and allowing him to install by himself with "No muss, no fuss." Please make a video of his facial reactions after he inserts the ISO and reboots the PC..."

Mu.

Give any newbie a bootable disk image & a bare computer. Please make a video of his facial reactions after he inserts the bootable disk and reboots the PC...

After I re-installed software on my techno-phobe Mom & techno-cant Great Aunt's computers, support calls from them dropped from three or four a month to zero. None. Zilch.[0]

I switched them from Windows to a highly customized (for them) variation of Slackware. The installer was wetware, not so-called software ... it doesn't hurt if said installer understands the exact needs of the targeted users.

Expecting a bog-stock OS install to be all things to all people on all hardware is the root of most end user problems, and no number of bandaids will change that.

"As a reminder Jake"

That's "jake". "Jake" is a completely different commentard in this forum.

"the thread is about the upcoming Windows 10 release"

No. The actual question was "will it be ready". IMO, the answer is no. Not in my production systems, anyway. And yes, I'm up to date and modern when it comes to understanding Redmond products (and Cupertino, for that matter). Kinda in my job description.

"not about yet another example of why people hate Linux Beards for being prudish."

Despite well over a third of a century of un*x experience, I do not now, and never have had, a beard. I'm not being prudish, I'm being honest.

[0] To be fair, I had to go plug a new USB printer into Mom's computer five-ish years ago ... but I would have had to do that regardless of OS; she's afraid to plug anything into it.

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Anonymous Coward

Simple answer...

No.

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One month from release and it still has stability issues, games crash, it rebooted whilst watching a film (it was applying an update!!!!), and all this on a rock solid (five years plus), Win7 gaming machine.

Oh yea, everytime I shut down it throws up an error ms that I have to click to close - and, apart from the fast boot, I'm not sure what it offers, I still get more frames ps using DX9 and I prefer skeuomorphism to boring flat.

My opinion: Windows 7 is still the best. (Well - Ubuntu is No1, but work & gaming tie me to the MS ecosystem)

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Are you saying that you are surprised to finds bugs on Beta software ?

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Are you saying that you are surprised to finds bugs on Beta software ?

With currently less the a month to go, before Launch. You'd might incorrectly think that the Software was generally getting slowly fit for purpose now.

So What's the overall difference between us Plebs getting shafted with a rolling Beta, and the unwashed Windows Insiders rabble who aren't quite up to the standards of our polite sociality? Other then not actually being given... At least officially, an opt-out from all the data mining that MicroSoft can get away with?!

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I can only presume that Microsoft will release an RTM that probably has less features than the PGP (Pleb Guineau Pig) version..

ie you get to test the Enterprise Version and they get the cut down Home Version that doesn't have the advanced, difficult to debug, release on time applications...

Pure supposition on my behalf because otherwise I have no idea how they will manage to pull of a Ready for the Unwashed version in only one month.

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Anonymous Coward

Everything Redmond knows they've learned through...

...Reading in-flight magazines... Come in Microsoft, your time is up....

@ JustaKOS

"# Loss of control of updates and the clear aim to use home users as beta testers forever.

# The fact that privacy and data-sharing settings default during installation to "Come and get me, baby".

# The need for a Microsoft Account for many features to work."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Everything Redmond knows they've learned through...

Reading in-flight magazines on their iPhones.

Its called Apple Envy:

Adolescents experience anxiety upon realization that they do not have an Apple.

Seems to explain their cunning stunts over the last few years.

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a more pertinent question might be ...

Will we be ready for it?

Still, while ideally we'd like to go to release with the Windows we want, sometimes you just have to go with the Windows you have.

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Re: a more pertinent question might be ...

Will we be ready for it?

Still, while ideally we'd like to go to release with the Windows we want, sometimes you just have to go with the Windows you have.

Well thank the maker I can still use the Windows I need.... Windows 7!

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mix

early adopters beware

As an excited geek of many years, I really want to download it as soon as it is released and as a savvy techy of many years, everything is screaming at me not to do so. Deity$ knows what the average consumer will think when they get the pop up.

I hereby volunteer to be a gamma-tester for the "service pack 1" types. ;)

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Trollface

Question

M$ says .. Once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device.

So if W10 has life cycle of 15 years, but I keep the same hardwrae running for 20 years (humour me), will M$ be liable to provide updates or come up with a loop hole?

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Devil

Re: Question

No, as soon as you change any little piece of hardware it will tell you "this is a new device" and will stop working....

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Re: Question

"

So if W10 has life cycle of 15 years, but I keep the same hardwrae running for 20 years (humour me), will M$ be liable to provide updates or come up with a loop hole?

"

Microsoft say it will keep you running for the *supported* lifetime of your hardware. What percentage of computer hardware do you have that has received support for 20 years? Try complaining that the driver for a 1995 graphics card doesn't work properly with the latest video game and see if the manufacturer is interested in providing a fix, for example.

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Go

Supported lifetime? Experiment in progress ....

I'm going to scrape together some spare components and build myself a test PC. I will load a legitimate copy of Win 7, and let it "auto update" to Win 10. By all accounts, this ought to get me on to the "free for life Win 10 as a service" package. I'm then going to start messing about by adding a second HD, changing memory, graphics cards, software etc.. and see just how long it lasts before it borks.

My guess is not very long at all, and that the "supported device" that MS have in mind is the one that came with Win 10 pre-installed - perhaps ideally a Surface where you can't change anything anyway, or even repair it when it breaks. My fear is that Win 10 will recognise the device on which it is first installed, but not the "new" device created by changing or upgrading hardware.

If I am right, and upgraded devices become unsupported fairly quickly, then users will have to go out and buy a new one, with a distinctly un-free copy of Win 10. Shock - horror - surprise!

Let's wait and see. In the meantime, my working environment will continue to be Linux, and I really cannot see anything coming out of MS that would ever make me want to go back.

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"With Windows 10, the experience will evolve"

We know.

At installation, it will race along and we will find it marvelous (those that have drunk the Cool-Aid, anyway). Over time, it will get slower, bloated and unstable. Patches will get bigger and bigger, and we'll need a terabyte disk just for the Windows folder.

We know Windows, Nadella. We've been using it since the 90's, and you've been polishing the same turd since.

But yeah, Win7/64 is the best version by far. And it's MINE. It does what I WANT. And YOU can't keep me from using it.

You can keep your "service". I will not be your cash cow.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: YOU can't keep me from using it.

I wonder for how long that statement will remain true... especially if its connected to the internet.

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Windows 10 CRS-7 Edition (RTM) got its view first preview yesterday (28/06/15) by all accounts.

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Windows 10 CRS-7 Edition (RTM) got its view first preview yesterday (28/06/15) by all accounts.

So is this clever way of saying it bombed?!

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Anonymous Coward

The biggest problem is creaky old Windows Update which has to be just about the worst update mechanism of any OS. I would not like to do a new OS install on W10 in three years time if the current state of WU is anything to go by, it would take an eternity to patch the system.

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Had the fun (not) updating a cheap Win8.1 with Bing box last weekend. Took a couple of hours before I received *any* progress feedback from update. Then far too long when it started actually installing. And another huge delay when I asked it to clean up after the install.

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The biggest problem is creaky old Windows Update which has to be just about the worst update mechanism of any OS. I would not like to do a new OS install on W10 in three years time if the current state of WU is anything to go by, it would take an eternity to patch the system.

>Implying this isn't the case for XP SP2 to SP3... Or just getting up-to-date on a fresh Windows 7 install.

While I agree sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, Windows is not! It is the best we currently have, and I'm sure plenty of Plebs rely on reading about on a Thursday, or Friday Morning as to which "updates" are then best avoided!

With Windows OSX we don't really have that choice it seems now. So if MicroSoft wants to install some nagware UPDATE TO WINDOWS TODAY! ZM0G! (al-la Like a recent nagware update that they made available to both Windows 7, & 8.x or something more insidious like XPs useless (to anyone who isn't MicroSoft), WGA Call Home Update, which they had the cheek to brand as CRITICAL!

I wouldn't trust Microsoft's updates as far as I could spit a lightly fried stoat in a bun.... I however accept 'em for what they are at face vale.

On the same hand I'm probably just as wrong to assume that Linux Updates are much better, if only that they're mostly peer reviewed before going up.

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Thumb Up

QOTW right here!

"I wouldn't trust Microsoft's updates as far as I could spit a lightly fried stoat in a bun..."

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