back to article Apple boots Windows 7 out of Boot Camp

The Cupertino fruit factory has decided to boot old versions of Windows out of the camp, quietly not-announcing that only Windows 8 and 10 will run on the latest flavours of the dual-boot "Boot Camp" utility that ships with this year's new Macs. The new policy means that the recently-announced MacBook Air and 13” MacBook Pro …

Anonymous Coward

Re: An odd decision by Apple

I had a similar requirement for Mac development - so bought OSX Lion for £20 and duel booted my Windows PC.

Works fine and have since upgraded to Yosemite and latest XCode with no issues. I did make sure I had compatible motherboard, graphics cards etc first though.

I now spend more time in OSX than Win7. Might go over to the Apple side entirely and give VirtualBox a try for the Windows only software but I expect games will not be playable.

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Re: An odd decision by Apple

Snow Leopard is 6 years old.

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Gold badge

Re: An odd decision by Apple

"Snow Leopard is 6 years old."

Bought a MBP new in 2012 and it came with Snow Leopard. Bloody Apple ripped me off then? Selling me a 3 year old OS?

Lion came out shortly after in 2012 (or 2013?) and is OK. Mountain Lion never worked. The latest greatest also seems to have lots of problems amounts those I know who upgraded, not only that networking doesn't work!

The problem with Xcode is a bit unfair. I think that officially Lion is no longer available, but see if you can beg permission to buy an upgrade - it was only something like £10

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Silver badge

Re: An odd decision by Apple

Abandoning Snow Leopard is quite annoying. it is the last OS that can run Power PC programs, that keeps many people on it. 32 bit machines (that includes those with 64 bit processors, but 32 bit firmware) cannot upgrade to the new free OSes.

Most Mac users I know are using SL (or earlier, on PPCs.) I can't see any reason to move to Yosemite (it's fugly too) other than software support being dropped, (and even Tiger on PPC still has well maintained Firefox and Thunderbird ports).

You pay a premium for Macs, but that is usually reflected in the quality and longevity of the devices (except when they have design faults) Good ones are usually perfectly usable at 10 years old. (I am typing this on a G5, which is far quicker than a *cheap* new PC.) So it is a dirty trick trying to pull the plugs so soon.

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@Tim Almond - Re: An odd decision by Apple

You can still download Xcode for OSX 10.6 from Apple.

You don't get it through the Apple store though, you need to grab it from https://developer.apple.com.

Once you're signed in there (you'll need an id), the full download URL is:

http://adcdownload.apple.com/Developer_Tools/xcode_3.2.6_and_ios_sdk_4.3__final/xcode_3.2.6_and_ios_sdk_4.3.dmg

[hmmm, that address isn't showing above correctly. the href in it is fine though]

You can find the Xcode download in the list yourself once on the site, but it's a few pages in. ;)

Oh, and use Safari when you go to the developer.apple.com site. It seems to reliably load the page better, whereas Firefox / Opera / Chrome can be a bit hit and miss. (for me anyway)

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Silver badge

I imagine tricking the Boot Camp Assistant will still work

If you wanted Windows XP on Boot Camp you ran the assistant, unticked everything apart from 'Install Windows 7', continued put the Windows 7 install DVD in, when it rebooted you held Alt until the startup screen appears, swapped the DVD for a Windows XP one, and continued booting. You got an XP install unsupported by Apple which still worked in Boot Camp.

So I imagine that you will be able to do the same with a Windows 8 install DVD and a Windows 7 one, except for perhaps on the very latest machines which may have an EFI which doesn't support Windows 7.

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Not new

I couldn't officially install windows 7 on my 2013 mac pro. This is not new.

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I didn't think Boot Camp was really that widely used?

As per the title - I didn't think Boot Camp was that widely used; not when you have the likes of Parallels and VMware so you can run a different OS in a VM.

Can't say I've used Boot Camp in a very long time (but was using my Windows 10 VM only yesterday)..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I didn't think Boot Camp was really that widely used?

Really the only reason to use dual boot / bootcamp is a slight performance gain but I gave it up 2 years ago as the convenience and security of running it as a VM instead won over. Anyone buying a new Mac is unlikely to have too much of an issue running at least Windows 8.

Let's not forget Windows 7 is already going back to 2009 (almost 6 years) and no-one is saying you can't run it - I do - as a VM.

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Bronze badge

Re: I didn't think Boot Camp was really that widely used?

I only use it (on my 2013 iMac) to play Elite Dangerous. Hopefully the Mac client will be good and then I won't have to bother.

However, the entire Bootcamp thing can get a bit confusing. Until recently I had a 2008 MacPro, which all the blurb said could Bootcamp Windows 7. Unfortunately I was running MacOS 10.9 which had Bootcamp 5... which didn't support the creaky MacPro. So after a lot of reading/research/trial/error I gave up.

All that aside I've got Parallels to run various Win and Linux in case I ever need to dabble with something. Whilst it was possible to (just about) play Elite Dangerous in Parallels it did crash quite a bit!

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Horse and Cart stuff reigns supreme

Here the cart came before the horse.

You help my bottom line Apple and I'll help your bottom line Microsoft.

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Meanwhile in the Linux world (rEFInd) as usual you get choice !

More reason to stick with Linux.

Choice of what OS's you can boot with rEFInd (similar to boot camp but the user can actually control it), choice of desktops, choice of distros.

I could never imagine running Windows where I was forced to use 1 desktop, that's 'communism' eh Mr Ballmer ?

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Re: Meanwhile in the Linux world (rEFInd) as usual you get choice !

Please, tell me more about this year being the "Year of the Linux Desktop". Again.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Meanwhile in the Linux world (rEFInd) as usual you get choice !

'Please, tell me more about this year being the "Year of the Linux Desktop". Again.'

But this time I *feelz* it in the water. No, wait, just a blow-off in the bath

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Anonymous Coward

Let's face it - some people (and IT Departments) can be lazy - they would still run Windows XP if they could get away with it and Windows 7 is 6 years old this year.

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Anonymous Coward

Lazy? Uh, no, this is called 'IT' not 'the Apple shop'

'lazy'?

If it's mature, supported by the vendor, has a feature set that meets needs and you've got apps / systems that work on it....that's not laziness, it's professional prudence.

Alright, XP's not supported now but that's not the point I'm making. Yes, if XP were still supported then a huge number of businesses might continue to use it. Of course they would! They wouldn't arbitrarily change just because - OH NOES - it's more than six years old.

Apple have done much to drive upgrade fetishism - and the feeling that things need replacing purely on the basis of version numbers and age.

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Holmes

the LOGAN'S RUN of the IT world...

...in which you are deemed positively ancient at an unreasonable age.

Off to the Carousel with you, crispy operating system.

Remember, fruity ones:

No sanctuary.

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WTF?

Why --

would anyone want to buy a new Apple computer to run an old version of Windows?

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Silver badge
Joke

Well, it makes some sort of sense.

You can no longer buy Windows 7, so of course when you get your new Mac, you can't get a brand new, shiny, shrink wrapped Windows 7 license anyway, can you.

Of course, they've overlooked the fact that you may already own a transferable Windows 7 license, but nobody would put a 'used' version of Windows on their shiny shiny, would they. That's just so dirty.

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Anonymous Coward

Anti-trust

This is the sort of thing that makes me wonder about the relationship between Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft needs Apple to counter allegations of de facto monopoly. Apple needs Microsoft to differentiate itself and create its elitist image by way of contrast. I wonder if they ever talk to one another? Off the record, of course.

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Silver badge

Re: Anti-trust

You think newer Macs not supporting Windows 7 via Boot Camp, while they still work fine via VM, is the result of an evil and illegal collusion between Apple and Microsoft? I think you need to come out of your basement and get some sun.

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Devil

Re: Anti-trust

This seems to be a collision of two different brands that have different approaches to legacy support. One lives and breathes legacy support while the other one despises it. One brand drop kicks their own customers in the balls when it comes to legacy support. Never mind people that use a rival OS.

This is a beautiful collision of world views. No conscious illegal intent is required.

This is just what happens when the ultimate legacy support brand meets the "ooh shiny shiny" brand.

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Silver badge

I bootcamp

I've said it here before but for me, my late 2011 MBP is the best Windows laptop I've ever owned to date. For clarity though, I did max out the RAM at 16GB and put in first a 512MB and more recently a 1TB SSD + 1TB spinner in the superdrive bay.

I tend to be quite hard on computers which includes lots of travelling and the usual bangs and knocks.

I also occasionally like to play the odd game such as (for example) Left4Dead 2 which I can't imagine would work so well in a virtual machine.

Whereas my friend, who has the same model, never boots to bootcamp - he's totally OSX and uses virtualisation for anything Windows.

The things that do hack me off more about it though: it's all but impossible to install an OS from USB/USB attached DVD so my Win 7 - 8.1 upgrade had to be just that: an in place upgrade and because Apple hide the embedded Intel GPU from bootcamp it has much poorer battery life and runs MUCH hotter than when booted into OSX.

Now having mostly extolled its virtues I cannot imagine buying a newer one...soldered RAM. Custom SSD (also soldered?), battery that's epoxied in...no thanks!

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The best Windows PC I've ever owned...

... is my 2013 Mac Pro. It ran OSX just long enough for Bootcamp to spin-up, and has been booting to Win8.1 ever since.

Quad-core hyperthread CPUs, twin D500 graphics, 16GB RAM, totally silent, tiny footprint, giant T'bolt screen - yep, that's my Windows dev. and gaming rig sorted for the next 5 years tyvm.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The best Windows PC I've ever owned...

"yep, that's my Windows dev. and gaming rig sorted for the next 5 years tyvm."

Meh, you could have got yourself a proper hard-core Alienware rig for that money, which would be better for gaming out of the box will be easier to upgrade in the future.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The best Windows PC I've ever owned...

Alienware?

Seriously... no. They're not well made any more. Way better off going back to building your own.

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The drivers come from Intel, not apple. Apple will qualify the drivers and might release some branded version of the driver, but it is Intel that writes the drivers - not Apple. There are a bunch of models from Dell, ASUS etc running on these new Y series of Intel M chips and none of them support Windows 7. There are no Windows 7 drivers for the Dell Venue 11 HD (new 3940 model with Intel M 5Y10 chip) for instance which is similar hardware (guts-wise) to this macbook.

So even putting Windows on the device, without bootcamp, will be a struggle - because there are no windows 8 drivers for this chipset.

Windows 7 x64 can run on EFI, 32bit Windows 7 cannot. Apple's implementation of EFI is non-standard and is not designed with easy boot-ability of Windows OS in mind.

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Saving money

Just another way for Apple to save money. Toss out support for Windows 7 - the most popular OS - and they are left to support Windows 8.1 [since I'm sure they won't actually support Windows 10 until the retail release (not the RTM date)].

Really dumb for Apple since some Apple buyers will hold off on buying a new model because they do need Boot Camp with Windows 7, unless they want to use a third party product.

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