Re: Virtual Machines? Pirates?
People need to pirate XP?
I reckon anyone in the IT industry the past decade have lost more XP licences than they have purposely bought.
It's the first Monday of the month, so time for us to have a look at desktop operating system market share again! Keen Reg readers may recall that last month it looked like peak Windows 7 was behind us. This month's data supports that hypothesis: Statcounter has Windows 7 dipping a little to 54.13 per cent and Netmarketshare …
People need to pirate XP?
I reckon anyone in the IT industry the past decade have lost more XP licences than they have purposely bought.
Microsoft should learn from Samsung and Apple and just rename W10 to Windows XP 2 plus.:)
Of the 12 working, fast, computers in my house, two run 8.1 and one 7. The rest are XP, are not ideal for upgrade and won't be scrapped. For doing content creation, XP is actually preferred because the (many) bugs are well understood, it's fastest, and it doesn't tend to lock you out of your own stuff. All of them dual-boot Linux 'just in case' but that's a bridge too far if you want to do something quick and familiar. 10 looks good (if they can stop 'Bing' auto-searches) but evidently only three of ours will get it. So those will be the 3:9 proportions we contribute.
Just to add to your stats.
I have a mere five computers: 3 on XP, 2 on Win7.
Apart from my 'main' Win7 machine, the others sometimes run Linux or more exotic systems.
> Microsoft should learn from Samsung and Apple and just rename W10 to Windows XP 2 plus.:)
Or name Windows 10 as "Funky Gibbon" (Ubuntu-type animal alliteration and curved corners avoided to bypass litigation).
Prosecutors have currently documented and indicted some very high-placed officials for bribery in connection to the Government Microsoft licensing contracts from 2009 for Windows XP and Office.
The bribe totals alone reach more than 50 million euros according to some and damages caused look to be more than 500 million euros. (yes.. "500 million" is not a typo).
Since the corruption scandal is rampaging, nobody is willing to risk a new licensing contract to replace the Windows XP licenses... as i see it the Government will move to Linux instead of the new windows versions. All the needed functionality is there, it's much cheaper, and the CYA (Cover Your Ass) factor is a major factor in the decision making these days.
Tut tut tutitty tut.
Any copy of XP out there still using the internet has not been patched for a while now.
IE6 is dead dead dead thanks to Poodle.
I would question any business which relys on getting business from XP users as you cant trust, its more likely Malware browsing your site than the user.
the EPOS variant of XP is still being patched . There is a registry hack (allegedly) that allows your version of XP to identify as the EPOS variant. It would seem likely that its only patching libriares strictly needed for EPOS
IE6 and Poodle aren't really a problem.
Lock down IE6 to access via your internal proxy.
Add FF/Chrome to the desktop and kill access by IE6 at your external proxy which also does malware scanning.
Carry on using your cheap OS on a zillion government desktops.
Well I BOUGHT my copy of XP Pro so I will use it, PC is the proverbial Triggger broom.
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
So I still have support.
That said someone said I was stealing by doing this, and they use a hooky copy of Win 7!
False sense of security. It's a reduced version of XP for POS, there's plenty in XP Pro that won't be patched.
But I think it is good enough.
I have firewalls, a hub which blocks stuff, I use HOSTS to keep out most stuff and all important data is backed up elsewhere. We are sensible where we surf.
Until I can get everything else running under Mint I am stuck with XP, I was offered a pirate version of 7, but that doesn't run everything XP does
XP is a POS by default - you can't turn it off.
I bought mine too, but I don't consider that investment cost from 13 years ago to be worth continuing to try to get value from VS the risk of what I may or may not be exposed to by continuing to run XP Pro. For me, it seems a daft gamble to take and I'd sooner take the supported path that (at least in principle) steers me away from as much of the nasty stuff as possible.
Guess it depends on your perception of value, doesn't it? Is that buy-in cost from so long ago worth the myriad hassles from the box getting owned? You might think so and that's fine, but it wouldn't be my choice. Consequences mean different things to different people, I suppose. I've a friend who continues to use it and accepts the risks purely because she 'doesn't like change'. And that's OK - she's made a risk assessment that works for her and the idea of learning some slightly new stuff is so abhorrent to her that she'd rather suck up the insecurity and not think about it. Not good, but it's fundamentally her decision.
For home use, it comes down to how much of a risk you are willing to take. I'm not the type of person that likes to take risks and so I saw moving on as a mitigation thing. For me, the work involved now in patching XP (to a limited extent I must add) using the EPOS fiddle, drivers for new hardware, finding apps that still work and will *continue* to be supported (vital continuity for me)...nah.
Stick it in a VM and isolate it from the Internet then.
If a VM doesn't work then it's probably ancient SCADA software that was last updated towards the end of the 18th Century. It always is.
So I change OS
OK Win 7, I have to buy it and not run some stuff I currently can (why remove features?)
Mint. I can't run some stuff and have to replace some expensive software with shareware which may not be as easy to use (Video Editing in HD and BluRay burning)
XP does what I require, I do not run an OS for the OS sake but for the programmes.
UK Gov negotiated an additional year of support for NHS & UK Gov offices that still had a need for XP so 'Super Extended Extra Support' doesn't finish completely until the end of this month. A whole 29 days left to finish all of those upgrades to Win 7!
Is this because of POS and ATMS using XP?
I submitted a remote code exec vuln based on the network stack to MS. They responded that they won't fix it as XP is EOL.
I'm afraid to do a full public disclosure, as I don't want to be the one responsible for the damage skiddies will do with it.
"I submitted a remote code exec vuln based on the network stack to MS. They responded that they won't fix it as XP is EOL."
tell Google, they'll take care of it....
I wonder what would happen if you took your case to the government on the grounds that XP is not "fit for purpose" because of the flaw and that a company cannot "end of life" a product still in significant circulation (it should be up to the customers to determine if a thing is useless, not the seller).
Please DO publish it, especially if it affects the WinXP bits not patched by the POSReady hack edition fixes... As i see it, it's better for WinXP to suffer a swift short death than a prolonged slow death, plagued by stealth infections.
Most admins that i know are prepared to migrate WinXP company computers to either Win7 or Linux, but are stopped by crazy fiscal policies and crap management decisions involving risk-vs-cost analysis.
Any increase of the risk in using WinXP is useful in helping to trash it out together with some of the ANCIENT computers it's running on. We still have some systems over here that have 256 or 384 MB of RAM memory (SDRAM PC100) that run WinXP. I would looove to be able to get rid of these slow-as-molasses tin cans but management won't let me trash them, and i have to maintain them because they still technically work even if they are more than 10 years old.
@AC: I think "the government" would tell you that MS most certainly can "end of life" a product. In the UK, at least, certain parts of the government were amongst the big losers from that decision and there was nothing they could do about it. (Well, unless you count pulling their fingers out and implementing sane IT policies, but that's obviously ridiculous.)
Its a tricky one.
While you might feel guilty about revealing it, there is a good chance that someone else will (or has) found it and will exploit it. Until it is understood by AV companies (as we can assume MS knows now) there is nothing to protect those using XP from it.
Now MS told you its not going to be fixed as XP is EOL, but what of the embedded version that various systems use? Publishing might be the only way to force MS to fix that for those still expecting support until that version is finally EOL'd.
Finally, you might want to consider if the same underlying bug also impact on Win7/8.x as well. Disclosure would allow that to be investigated.
So really, it will come out one way or another, and probably best if done via an open forum than black-hat sales channels. MS know, so its their call about patching.
I'll think you find part of the discrepancy is due to people moving to tablets, giving up on them and reverting to something familiar
With Noscript, external firewall, Firefox, no non- web except up to date Flash in Browser (no PDF, Media player, VLC, no added toolbars, no Java) all non-essential services off (upnp, telnet, server, no sharing, remote desktop, remote registry, HTTPS & HTTP server, FTP, SSDP etc, no autorun on any media inc net drives) etc XP used by a knowledgeable user is safer than Win 7, Win 8.x or Win 10 used by average user with a false sense of security in AV products and the default configuration.
Thunderbird or other client with no remote content enabled for email.
Using Libre office (or Office 2003 with no macros or activeX).
The default Windows settings for services are madness and always have been.
An alternate view
I use silentrunners,org and gmer, often booting in safe mode to check out people's PCs / laptops
Also, if you run it on a Limited account or even Guest account, you're even safer. Really, security is just using the basic precautions that we all know. That being said, I've migrated to Win 8.1 and I'm beta testing Win 10.
MS should bring out a Windows Classic Edition.
Basically an XP SP4 with bugs that are STILL in Win7 and Win 8, (or stupidity) fixed. File copy in Explorer is crazy limited compared with xcopy and ordinary users don't realise that it copies or moves depending on if explorer thinks directories are on same drive letter. They don't know about holding cntrl or shift.
Also the explorer views are buggy.
The Classic Edition should have only safe network clients on by default. It should have 32 bit (faster for some things and needed for old cpus) with NT4 Enterprise PAE on as well as 64 bit. No need to resurrect the long dead XP 64 for Itanium.
Sadly I still use XP in a VM to remote connect into the company servers. The remote connection software we have to use will not work properly on Win7 without a heck of a lot of frigging around. Plus keeping an XP VirtualBox VM tucked away is tiny and I can take it and run it from any host system that can run VirtualBox which is Win,Linux and even OSX on my wife's Macbook when I'm away from home. Sorry MS XP is still very much a usable O/S!
(subject says it all)
Since the 16th episode of the seventh season of The Simpsons, entitled "Lisa the Iconoclast".
It's the same episode that gives us "cromulent".
It was used in the Simpson's something, something embiggens the smallest man?
There are 15 references to the word on the wiki site one dating back to 1884?
It doesn't look like XP because these supposed 'designers' can't bring themselves to understand that people actually liked the friendly look XP had. Oh no, it's got to be all modern and swishy - and completely unfamiliar. Fecking eedjuts.
Everything has to look like smartphones and tablets now.
Because reasons, I guess.
Nope, I'm pretty sure they liked XP because they could run it with the Win 2000 theme. MS never managed to improve on that, although Windows 7 with Flip 3D that I came to find useful came a close second.
What I want to know is why Microsoft don't make Win 10 operate just like Sinclair BASIC. Forget using the mouse. I want to go back to cursor keys. I certainly don't want preemptive multitasking, I just need preemptive Keywords. No more modern and swishy and certainly familiar.
Isn't that what they pretty much did with windows 8?
All the apps jumping full screen, so almost single tasking. And typing commands is the only reasonable way to do things on a desktop or laptop.
(OK realistically it has the feel of Windows 3.0, so only 2/3 as old, really)
Two home PCs running XP and one Win 7. I only went to 7 because I bought a PC with more RAM than XP to handle.
Of the two versions, I prefer XP.
got a windows 8.1 laptop to replace the ancient and nearly dead laptop we use around the factory
I've had to use it for 30 mins (in 2 shorter stints) trying to configure it to run the DNC comms package we use to talk to the machines
And after the 2nd stint I dearly wanted to rip out its hard drive and nuke it in the microwave to hopefully get rid of the abomination that is windows 8.
Even the jumps from XP to vista to win7 are'nt as bad, and to be perfectly honest, I'm experimenting with CentOS 6 on a laptop running Xp in a VM with access to the USB ports for the USB to serial converter we use as a better solution.
Plus the CAD/CAM package we use wont run on windows 8 and I cant face the propect of trying to find setting buried deeply in the OS that may or may not allow the programs to run.
Oh and if win10 is anything like win 8, we're going Linux throughout.
"Oh and if win10 is anything like win 8, we're going Linux throughout."
Win8.1 is a free upgrade from Win8.0 and well worth trying if the 8.0 interface drives you nuts. (It isn't massively better, but at least you get a sort-of Start menu (perversely via right-click) and you can stay on the desktop and pretend that Metro never happened.)
Win10 Tech Preview is *a lot* like Win8.1. The Start menu (left-click this time) is quite astonishingly ugly and uses a scrolling alphabetical list rather than a cascading menu, but is just about functional. My impression so far is that the free upgrade is a no-brainer for anyone on 8.x.
I installed a clean Win7 the other day. There were over two hundred patches (over and above the "latest" service pack). It's now out of mainstream support and vanishingly unlikely that MS will ever issue a service pack to roll-up that lot. Increasingly you will find that hardware vendors won't have a Win7 driver. MS aren't going to retro-fit SHA-256 support for kernel-mode drivers and so after 2016 it will actually get quite hard to properly sign a Win7 driver.
Win7 users ought to be considering their options at this stage and Win10 is a free upgrade that will probably run all their existing code.
The 'new' Start menu isn't so much fugly as crippled by design.
Without hierarchical menus it's reliant on search on well populated systems and the users perfect memory of app names.
It wastes a large chunk of space on the tile interface - even if you remove ALL the tiles.
The actual menu part seems to totally lack any configurability - haven't found a way to add shortcuts to it yet and that's part of what I want a start menu for because many of my tools don't show up without it. Sure, you can do some rearranging of the tiled area but we said no to the start screen, sneaking it back in as the only working bit is not acceptable.
Microsoft need to give up playing bait&switch with this, just promise never to disable Classic Start Menu and stop wasting time on anti features.
As an upgrade, I doubt there'll be any advantage sticking with 8.1, if there is expect MS to update 8.1 till its removed! Win10 isn't very different to 8.1, a better backend with a different fugly, impoverished UI pasted on. Equally as in need of 3rd party UI fixes. 8.0 is already abandoned.
The cockroach of operating systems.
Which is more a statement that computers don't do anything materially better or different than 10 or 12 years ago. The rest of cosmetics.
For real trends, you need to add Win 8 and 8.1 together. They are essentially the same OS.
I've been running XP the whole time.
In lieu of better stats, two bean counters both see a small uptick in the use of XP on the internet. Well, never mind the statistical significance of the uptick. The real story here is that Windows XP is not going away, despite every attempt by Microsoft to kill it dead. I had a couple of people ask to buy XP systems last month, so I sold them. Why not? It remains wildly popular.
where did you get the licence keys Ben? Or were they second hand machines.......??
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