back to article Space Commanders rebel as Elite:Dangerous kills offline mode

Elite:Dangerous, the revival of classic eight-bit space trading game Elite, won't have a single-player offline mode and space commanders are mad as hell. Frontier Developments, the game's developer, revealed the demise of offline mode in a recent newsletter in which it argues “A fully offline experience would be unacceptably …

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  1. Shadow Systems

    Cue the mass demands for refunds.

    "You promised an OffLine mode. I spent money to reserve my copy based on that claim. You are now saying there will be no OffLine Mode. Thus it is no longer what I pre-ordered. I want my refund now."

    And if the developers refuse to give it, a quick call to the CreditCard Company to claim Fraud, the charges get reversed, and KickStart/the Developers get to deal with the fall out from howevermany folks decide they've been scammed.

    Nice going, way to shoot yourselves in the head.

    1. David Given

      Re: Cue the mass demands for refunds.

      Except Kickstarter isn't a shop. When you fund something on it, you're not buying anything; you're just giving them money, in the hope that you'll get something in return. There is no guarantee that the something will actually turn up, and the T&Cs you signed up to are totally clear on this.

      I don't think you're going to find your credit card company very sympathetic.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. DavCrav

        Re: Cue the mass demands for refunds.

        "Except Kickstarter isn't a shop. When you fund something on it, you're not buying anything; you're just giving them money, in the hope that you'll get something in return. There is no guarantee that the something will actually turn up, and the T&Cs you signed up to are totally clear on this.

        I don't think you're going to find your credit card company very sympathetic."

        But it's not just Kickstarter where they are selling it, and have been for some time before this announcement. If you pre-order something, not on Kickstarter, with an offline mode, and it comes without one, back it goes under the Sale of Goods Act, at least in the UK.

      3. Laurent

        Re: Cue the mass demands for refunds.

        Yup, the T&C are indeed clear on this, they have to refund if an offline mode was a reward they promised:

        * Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.

        * Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

        https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012

        1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

          Re: Cue the mass demands for refunds.

          * Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.

          * Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

          Interesting, as quite a lot of people stumped up for a reward that includes a copy of the game. Wonder if the lack of offline mode would qualify as inability and unwillingness to fulfill the reward...

          what did you expect, it's an English project; as a rule of life I don't trust these. Perfide Albion and all that ;-)

          Anyway, I didn't back the project: my machines have enough trouble running Oolite already and I suspect the reboot will be substancially heavier.

          1. MrXavia

            Re: Cue the mass demands for refunds.

            Physical DRM free copy was one of the rewards, since always online = a form of DRM, I expect anyone who wants a kick starter refund should be able to get one, at least if they paid up for a physical copy like I did.

            I will wait and see, they listened to the community on the 'rooms in space' micro jumping and introduced SC, they back stepped on some of the FA-Off changes, I expect they will end up listening to the customers and introducing something at some point for offline play....

    2. Cari

      Re: Cue the mass demands for refunds.

      This happened recently with Mighty No. 9. I guess the Elite: Dangerous devs didn't hear about that...

  2. janimal
    FAIL

    Oh FFS

    I was really looking forward to this, but only for offline. Glad I didn't stump up for the kickstarter. There must be many more like me who only really wanted it for the offline experience. :/

    1. janimal

      Re: Oh FFS

      Having read some of the rage thread linked in the article. It appears that solo play is still possible, but it still requires a connection to the servers.

      In which case, for me at least, that's not so bad (until the game company folds of course).

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: Oh FFS

        I too will probably be quite happy in solo mode as I currently live somewhere with a great internet connection.

        However, I've lived places with a crap internet connection before, and I have a strong sympathy for people in that situation. There's nothing worse than sitting down to play a particular game, only to find that as your internet has decided to have a little lie down, you're stuck without.

      2. ElReg!comments!Pierre

        Solo play not good enough

        I understand that offline play would require an extra "static" universe and some transfer control to avoid an invasion of locally buffed-up Commanders (Diablo memories...).

        However, the original game did that in very little space using "on the fly" generation, and I do most of my gaming on the go these days. I really can't understand why the devs do not include a -minimal, if need be- local universe for offline play. Except if they are late with the developpment of the game, that would explain it. In any case it kinda suXX0rz: I won't buy a game that I can't play...

        1. janimal

          Re: Solo play not good enough

          Well the other problem is how long can a buy once business model support the required servers for? I think it is reasonable to infer that the business model will have to change to micro-transactions or subs at some point in the future? Both very negative points for me.

          1. Not That Andrew

            Re: Solo play not good enough

            They are already selling paint schemes, and on a ship by ship basis too.

        2. Cari

          Re: Solo play not good enough

          Who's pressuring them to get the game out on time though? Looking at the responses, I can imagine that people who wanted offline play would be more than happy for them to delay release so it can be properly implemented. Instead they're losing sales... it's puzzling.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Shame

    The evolving universe being talked about sounds like it will be a marvellous experience, and I can understand the difficulties it presented them when they considered how to engineer an off-line single-player mode.

    However, that's how it goes in software development. Difficulties in realising the original concept aren't a good excuse if you've made promises that you no longer want to keep, especially if you've taken money on the strength of those promises.

    What they seem to have forgotten is that the massive good will they've had right from the off has been fueled in large part by the old farts who were so enamoured of the single-player original. As someone pointed out in comment on the original article: Elite is a legendary single player game.

    I really was looking forward to this one, but no more.

    1. dan1980

      Re: Shame

      @JustaKOS

      "The evolving universe . . ."

      The thing is - I don't want an evolving universe. Or, at least, I don't want one that evolves without my input. In other words, I want to play for an hour on a Monday and then an hour the next Tuesday and see 2 hours of universe 'evolution', not 200 hours, of which I have only been around for 1%.

      Given the age of people who played the original elite, we've kind of got lives now.

    2. Blue_Skunk

      Re: Shame

      You can still play it single player and never meet another player EVER... it's called solo mode... you just need to be online for it

      1. MrXavia

        Re: Shame

        "You can still play it single player and never meet another player EVER... it's called solo mode... you just need to be online for it"

        Yeah but the issue is the universe still evolves when your not there, some people don't want that..

        1. Simon Westerby 1

          Re: Shame

          So you buy your 35 tons of "Computers" log off - and when you log back on next week ..... the market has crashed and your trade route is no longer profitable.. and your stuck with a worthless cargo...

          meh - was interested ... not so much anymore now..

      2. dan1980

        Re: Shame

        @Blue_Skunk

        There is not single player.

        A single player game is one where you are the only concious agent. There might be random events but otherwise anything that depends on actions depends on your actions alone. Nothing anyone does in their playthrough alters or affects your universe and thus you experience in any way, shape or form.

        That is a single player game.

        What they have here is the ability to play a multiplayer game without directly interacting with others and this is not the same thing at all.

        FURTHER, an offline game is static. The devs say this as though it is inherently a bad thing but it is not. Whatever randomness there may be, the universe isn't changed on a whim by anyone. There is no rebalancing - no tweaking laser output or increasing the cost of shield cells or changing a weapon so that it can only be equipped on larger ships or removing/reducing availability of a trade item from a given location to remove an overly-profitable trade run. No increasing shielding on enemies to counter certain popular load-outs and no increasing the risk of a trade route while simultaneously reducing the firepower of the heavy haulers to force cooperative play.

        An online 'solo' option is not even slightly the same thing as an offline single-player experience.

  4. Crisp

    "The game is still on track for a December 16 release"

    I think I'll wait for Space Citizen then...

    1. DropBear
      Mushroom

      Re: "The game is still on track for a December 16 release"

      I certainly hope they're closely paying attention, and ditch any online-only ideas they might have been secretly considering (as officially they're firmly supporting their single-player promise). Anyway, here's my mad_as_hell_KS_backers++...

  5. P. Lee

    My internet connection goes offline when it rains (thanks Telstra)

    Now I won't be able to play indoors either?

    Frequent updates for games in need of patches - there's an app for that (Steam).

    Or rsync - that works too.

  6. returnmyjedi

    After the phew Rory caused by the latest sim city being online only at release I would have thought that Frontier would have realised this design choice would be as successful as Ed Miliband at a bacon sandwich eating contest.

  7. alann2

    I see the rage monkeys have appeared here as well, there is still a solo mode where you see no other human player. This mode just has to connect to the galaxy servers for environment updates, there is no need to interact with any other human, however if it means the game loses the petulant children then all the better for it.

    1. Ashton Black

      Indeed. Single Player mode, is still there. Offline mode isn't.

      Of course, the question, and it's one that I thought I wouldn't have to ask, is what happens when they run out of money to pay for the server hosting?

      Here's an article from Euro Gamer about EA closing down 50 of their games, at the end of June (this was posted in May). Don't get me wrong, some have had "good runs" as it were, but some are only a few years old.

      http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-12-50-ea-games-will-have-their-servers-shut-down

      1. janimal

        Yes server costs is a big issue. How are they going to fund the servers once all the potential players in a fairly niche market have bought the game?

        The only real ways I know to do so are through subs or micro-transactions, both great reasons for avoiding online only games.

        Expect the purchase model for the game to change at some point in the future possibly.

      2. Kerry Hoskin

        glad you cleared that up. I was a bit confused as to what was being suggested. So basically you can STILL play single player but you have to have a tinterweb connection to play The only hitch with this kind of thing is you WILL get times when the servers are down and you can't play. aka SimCity and Diablo III

    2. Michael Strorm Silver badge

      "I see the rage monkeys have appeared here as well"

      Don't see much of that stereotypical adolescent-minded fanboy "rage" you imply. Just (at most) some justified anger, disappointment and well-reasoned criticism at the abandonment of a promised core feature of the game.

      1. alann2

        it stopped being justified anger after three days of constant bleating. Its a game, many people should just get over it, get a refund, get on with life.

        1. dan1980

          @alann2

          Wrong. If it was a couple of people and a couple of posts, then it's not really an issue and the developers can say to themselves that they made the right decision.

          If it's pages and pages of upset customers, that sends the message that this is not just a few people and it's not a small thing. That means the devs might just take another look at it.

          We saw it - belatedly - with Sim City, where the developers assented to user pressure and released a patch that enabled offline play. I appreciate it might not be all that straight forward with Elite, depending on how far they've gone down that road (quite far I suspect), but Elite is also a rather different prospect, being a Kickstarter campaign which should be, at least in principle, more attuned to the wants of the players than a huge, EA-backed production.

          And yes, people could just accept it, request a refund and go learn macramé or (heaven forbid) go outside but why should they? An 'everyone wins' scenario involves the developers and the players having their say and, hopefully, producing an improved product that better matches customer expectations and is thus more successful.

        2. Oninoshiko

          "it stopped being justified anger after three days of constant bleating. Its a game, many people should just get over it, get a refund, get on with life."

          I would agree, except they are denying refunds. FD is being scummy with this whole deal.

    3. MrXavia

      " This mode just has to connect to the galaxy servers for environment updates"

      That is not the issue, the issue IS that you need to be connected to play, its not for environment updates its for anything such as ship purchases, cargo, upgrades, etc...

    4. Cari
      Facepalm

      "petulant children"?

      Good grief, I imagine the majority of posters here and over on the thread, are actually old enough to have children that are old enough to have children by now.

      It isn't about not wanting to play with other people, it's about having a modern update of a classic game without all the anti-consumer baggage modern games come with (like DRM in the form of always online play, or a game that is only playable for as long as the servers are running).

      I was there playing D3 near release and Blizzard still hadn't ironed out the kinks with the connections to their servers. There was no need for it to be always online for solo mode, but there was no way to actually play the game without logging in and connecting to the battle.net servers. And then there were the account compromise issues that followed, where people were having their characters items stolen - even if they only played solo.

      30 years on, and I can still play the original Elite on my beeb micro. Will I be saying the same of Elite: Dangerous in 30 years time?

  8. Morat

    The past is a different country....

    Storm in a teacup. The game is fantastic, the only problem with it is the ridiculously reactionary community on the forums. I do realise that a lot of the backers will be middle aged gamers who played the original Elite as kids. I'm one of them. I'm just saddened that so many of my generation seem to be socially retarded and scared rigid at the prospect of having people actually talk to them.

    ED needs to be released as soon as possible so that the community can expand and the original backers can understand that gaming is now a mainstream activity whether they like it or not. There has been far too much emphasis on the wishes of the basement dwellers.

    1. DavCrav

      Re: The past is a different country....

      "I do realise that a lot of the backers will be middle aged gamers who played the original Elite as kids. I'm one of them. I'm just saddened that so many of my generation seem to be socially retarded and scared rigid at the prospect of having people actually talk to them."

      Or, maybe they already live in a dynamically altering universe, 24 hours a day, and they play games as a form of entertainment, like reading a book or going to the cinema. In both of those experiences, people talking to you is annoying. I am not socially retarded, but if I am playing a game, I don't want a 13-year old calling me a n00b gay fag cunt, or whatever they call each other, because I occasionally play games to relax and haven't spent ten hours this week in their universe knowing everything about it.

      In summary, I might accept other people around if the servers are age restricted, so <18, 18-25, 25-40, 40+, that looks about right. The people in the 25-40 and 40+ servers will largely leave each other to get on with things. If you are 40+ and want to behave like a 15-year old fuckwit, then you can petition to be "immatured" down a few servers.

      1. Morat

        Re: The past is a different country....

        "Or, maybe they already live in a dynamically altering universe, 24 hours a day, and they play games as a form of entertainment, like reading a book or going to the cinema. In both of those experiences, people talking to you is annoying. I am not socially retarded, but if I am playing a game, I don't want a 13-year old calling me a n00b gay fag cunt, or whatever they call each other, because I occasionally play games to relax and haven't spent ten hours this week in their universe knowing everything about it."

        You do realise that you can still play in solo mode, don't you? In SOLO mode you won't see anyone at all. But even solo mode is an over-reaction to a non existent problem. IF you are insulted by one of the other players, which is highly unlikely since there are 400bn star systems and 50k players and the chat system is unbelievably primitive you can put them on block.

        As for the dynamic updates - what you're asking for is the ability to farm the same trade route over and over again. offline. For pretend cash. Do you really call that living?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Morat, re: Offline Mode.

          The original game is a single player, entirely offline experience.

          This reboot is now a massively multiplayer online only affair that also has a "Solo Mode" but still requires you to be online to play it at all.

          Are you really so dense you can't figure out why this might upset folks whom primarily backed the project BECAUSE it claimed to have an offline mode, yet now won't have one?

          "Solo Mode" that's ONLINE is not the same as a Solo Mode that is OFFLINE.

          The Online version requires an internet connection that might not exist (on the train, in a tunnel, on a plane, in an underground carpark, "no signal" on the Cell/WiFi, whatever) and thus makes the game unplayable.

          Where the offline version can be played anywhere, anytime, as long as the device has the resources required. So even if we're up in a plane with zero internet, we could still be playing a game we were led to believe would have an OFFLINE capability.

          Only now it won't. Solo Mode Online, yes; Solo Mode Offline, No.

          And by calling everyone whom may not want an entirely online game a retard is branding yourself as an asshole. Does that mean that all the original players of the game are retards for making the game so popular that the new developers decided to resort to crowdfunding to recreate the experience?

          Let's look at a game like MechWarrior for example. Normal play was a single player, offline form & fun as hell. You _could_ connect to a server & play against others, and if that was your thing, also fun as hell. If you never went to the server, your offline game still worked just fine, nothing stopped you from playing & enjoying the game.

          If you connected, then the computer & the servers synced versions, thus ensuring everyone was on the same page, nobody could cheat without _everyone_ being able to do it, and everyone played as per the rules of synchronized play.

          So if it were to be rebooted & brought up to 2014 standards, it should still have a single player, offline mode for those folks whom played it in the first place & made it worthy of a reboot at all. To tell all of them "tough shit, go online or go away" is seriously fucked up in more ways than I care to count.

          So please, get it through your head: we're not retarded for wanting a single player offline mode, we're rightly upset that a game billed as having that capability will no longer have the ENTIRE REASON WE WANTED TO PLAY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Now do you understand, or are you still too fucking stupid to qualify as human?

      2. alann2

        Re: The past is a different country....

        there is still the solo mode where you don't have to be associated with 13 year olds., online yes, other humans, no.

    2. DropBear

      Re: The past is a different country....

      If there needs to be a wire (symbolic or real) connected to my hardware in order for me to play that is not related to the transport of the required amount of electricity, they can take their game and shove it where the sun don't shine - simple as that. Nothing to do with "other players" - they're irrelevant for me.

    3. Ol' Grumpy

      Re: The past is a different country....

      There is nothing socially retarded about wanting to play a single player game but I do see both sides of this.

      I've played a couple of other online games, the experience of which can sometimes be ruined by the Internet connection not being there (frequent in these parts) or in my case as a casual gamer, getting to a point where I'm about to achieve something and then getting interrupted and blown away by someone who is simply much better than I am or has paid to get much better gear.

      I do also however appreciate the effort that would be required to take a game that designed for online play, offline.

  9. Trizo

    This issue is being blown out of proportion.

    Almost any gamer these days has a decent internet connection, the amount of people effected by this are minimal.

    The only thing you could blame them for is not realizing sooner that including 'offline mode' wasn't a feasible goal. So they made that mistake. They are just humans, surely they are allowed to make 1 little mistake.

    1. janimal

      So how are they going to fund the required servers after everyone has bought the game? Expect a Micro-transaction pay to win experience in the future to keep the servers online.

    2. Sixtysix

      Don't speak for those you don't know - you just expose your ignorance and predjudice.

      There are thousands of people who work in places where there is NO WAY to get INTERNET FOR MONTHS at a time. Seamen, offshore workers, and plenty of others working in remote locations where even work access is limited.

      My son does 6 months hitches at sea, and had ordered this as he'd finally be able to play a modern game. Not so much now.

      And please don't take about Steam and other distribution platforms - don't work without a heartbeat, so completely useless. Steams "offline mode" times out within a week locking ALL steam games whether on-line or offline: seriously irritating...

    3. Simon Westerby 1

      >> Almost any gamer these days has a decent internet connection, the amount of people effected by this are minimal.

      1 - not all "gamers" want to game online 24/7.

      2 - In X years time when the servers are gone and the game you spent X years playing and enjoying becomes utterly worthless - try fishing out that disc in 30 years and reliving those memories!!

      Why are the above so hard to understand for some people? I'm guessing this is the xbox360/PS3's gernation who never really new what offline gaming was all about.

      *sigh* ... I'm off to be abused by the above on WOT... i need some more nerd rage.

    4. dan1980

      @Trizo

      I know, right?

      Almost any games company these days has the money and resources to run servers in perpetuity.

      Hell, even if they can't maintain their servers for more than five years, it's not like the game will still be popular then - people will have moved on.

      Wait? What's that? Oh, people are still playing the original Elite and the game was crowd-funded without any concrete plans for ongoing revenue that would help to pay the running costs?

      Ah, well, that's different then . . .

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think it could have been communicated earlier but otherwise I don't have any problem with this decision. There are various ways to play as you want, just no unplugged option anymore.

    Surely that affects very few people nowadays?

    Seems to be a lot of trolling from Star Citizen community though, they're taking what plans have been made as gospel while criticising people for the same elsewhere... also lots of examples of "no offline mode, imma taking my $300 and spending it on a jpeg!!"

    1. jrc14

      The decision seriously affects only a few people who are forced by circumstances to spend time away from the always-connected world (military personnel, merchant navy and offshore workers, for instance). But a fair number of these people did back the game, explicitly because the off-line play feature was there, which meant that it was going to be a content-rich top tier game that was actually accessible to them. I can understand why they are disappointed at Frontier's decision, and angry at the shabby way that it was not-quite-announced.

      1. Simon Harris

        It seems to me that it's the difference between buying a house that you can live in forever, and renting a place where you're at the mercy of when the landlord decides you're not profitable any longer and throws you out, or forgets to pay his mortgage and gets repossessed.

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