back to article UK PM Cameron says Internet must not 'be an ungoverned space'

UK prime minister David Cameron has called for “extremist material” to be taken offline by governments, with help from network operators. Speaking in Australia's Parliament on a trip that will also see him attend the G20 leaders' summit, Cameron spoke of Australia and Britain's long shared history, common belief in freedom and …

Anonymous Coward

Re: “extremist material” "hatred"

"I hope they do ban the UKIP website, it might actually wake the sleeping masses. I find it hard to credit how dense some people can be sometimes."

Such as voting for the same colour every time for 60 years, because your dad and granddad always did... sort of like North Korea you mean?

Or perhaps a vote that splits the main parties and maybe something different will happen. Good or bad it's change and the fewer lazy safe seated politicians with their heads in the trough the better.

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Re: “extremist material” "hatred"

Every time any one matching your criteria offers not to vote, we have to listen to amazing lectures about how that means we now have to give up all the rights we enjoy in the country in which we live. It seems no one other than those of us who so choose (and yourself apparently) can see that its actually a very responsible choice.

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Look, Cameron: rack-off you silver-spoon-gumming, coat-tail-wearing, elitist public schoolboy.

We take orders from the Queen of Australia. Who the hell are you to spurt your rubbish over here*?

And anyway - do you really think our politicians need any encouragement?

* - I am pretty sure the power doesn't extend down your line.

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"We take orders from the Queen of Australia"

So what are Dame Edna's views on the Qur'anic justification for jihad and the establishment of the Worldwide Caliphate?

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Re: "We take orders from the Queen of Australia"

I imagine it would be something both humorous and cutting at the same time but I dare not put words in her mouth.

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Anonymous Coward

Does "the removal of extremist material” include

allegations of criminal activity by politicians?

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Annoyed by Politicians

So the Freshly Wanked Cock does it again...showing quite clearly that when he says public discourse he means the unquestioned output from his "Cobra" meetings with the rest of the dickswinging autocrats who had their last proper technology interaction whacking off to pron on a dodgy version of Win95me.

We obviously are not allowed to be part of any discourse beyond the usual pedo under the bed scare.

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An ungoverned space ?

Wot, like the unregulated market in rented housing that is toppling into unaffordable anarchy ?

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Re: An ungoverned space ?

@Fihart

Apples and oranges mate. The free market allows - nay promotes - everyone to achieve maximum happiness. The free exchange of ideas, on the other hand, only serves to promote heinous and unwelcome anarchy.

Irony.

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Anonymous Coward

Extremist views,

Mr Prime Minister!

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Big Brother

Free and Open

As long as it's our brand of free and open.

And no, I don't mean Russell "lets revolt, parklife" Brand

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Re: Free and Open

"And no, I don't mean Russell "lets revolt, parklife" Brand"

Someone recebtly told me that he's a comedian. Honest.

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Don't waste your breath, David

"Cameron said [PDF] poverty and foreign policy are not the source of terror. “The root cause of the challenge we face is the extremist narrative,” he said,"

Lemme see, David - so you think that if offered, you would find a proposition to go to some godforesaken desert and live in shit without running water and electricity and proper food, all for the chance of getting your arse shot off from under you and possibly, just possibly, get a number of women to play with *after* you die - irresistively attractive? You would instantly drop your nice lifestyle - houses, cars, chauffers, golf, whatever, just for a chance of strapping on your suicide belt (and a pack of condoms?) and fulfill your destiny?

Would you say - "I suffered all my life going through private education, fine dining, shagging, occasional pot smoking, trying to get that lousy PM job and you never told me that I could just happily die in shit, trying to cut off some schmuck infidel's head while under American drone fire instead??? WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME BEFORE???"

No, I thought so, you wouldn't...

C'mon, David, YOU know very well that "terrorist narrative" will not work without there being poverty and discontent in the first place. YOU only want to lay your hands on our Internets, that's all.

Oh, and we know it too, so don't waste your time feeding us your counter-terrorist narrative...

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Coat

Re: Don't waste your breath, David

you would find a proposition to go to some godforesaken desert and live in shit without running water and electricity and proper food, all for the chance of getting your arse shot off from under you and possibly, just possibly, get a number of women to play with *after* you die - irresistively attractive?

I'm sure I've seen that on TV, something about celebrities?

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Flame

Law of (probably) intended consequences

“A new and pressing challenge is getting extremist material taken down from the internet."

2014. Extremist material = Islamist propaganda

2020. Extremist material = Anything the current collection of fuckwits in charge don't like.

Slippery slope etc, etc.

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IIRC

Wasn't one of our famous RAF war poets a foreigner shot down whilst illegally fighting for freedom in WW2?

And that was before the RN gave them Top Gun. (Probably why he was KIA.)

Ah yes, the gateway to education is not suitably controlled enough, if we can still find out things.

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... being more proactive in taking down this harmful material

Perhaps he should set his own house in order first, by having a word with whoever looks after UK government internet security. A trivial Google search with [site:gov.uk paypal viagra}, for example, brings up a slew of hacked sites advertising all manner of stuff. There seem to be quite a few hacks of NHS sites too.

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Anonymous Coward

All the same

Whether you vote Tory, Labour, LibDem, Green or UKIP, they all propose to do much the same thing in the same way that most western governments do. There really is very little to choose between them - fringe differences.

They are all self serving. The State is good, you will obey, and you will hand over a big chunk of everything you earn or we'll put you in prison. We'll take as much of your money as we can without causing a revolution, and we'll spend it on making things more and more complicated to keep more and more people dependant upon the State.

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Re: All the same

There will never be a revolution, because those who rise up will be called terrorists. And then shot.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: All the same

We are told that without government we would have anarchy, where those with the guns make the rules. Instead we have a government, who just so happens to have all the guns and makes all the rules.

We're told how a lack of government would lead to anarchy - and it would. But anarchy is a world without rulers, not a world without rules.

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Anonymous Coward

Lost me...

"Cameron spoke of Australia and Britain's long shared history, common belief in freedom and openness..."

Fine, I'm just off to watch two consenting adults partake in a sex session where one is dressed as a SS Officer while the other is whipped and has their genitals nailed to a table?

What do you mean I can't? They are both consenting grown ups!

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My diagnosis...

An acute, hopefully terminal case of Canute Syndrome.

There IS no little British internet for British people, DC. Attempting to exert some degree of 'government' on the internet with national laws is utter foolishness.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My diagnosis...

Don't you get it? This is the start of the great firewall of Earth rather than China, gradually Governments and Corporations are waking up to the fact there is a method of expression out there that is unregulated and *gasp* free, in dribs and drabs they are starting to snoop and block bits of it off from casual viewing, first they go for unregulated porn sites and "extremist porn" then they go for religious sites until we end up with a situation where we're going to be tracked and stamped and restricted,

Not going to happen quickly, and there will be workarounds (thank fuck) but for the non-techy guy on the street they'll be fed a diet of pure shit from on high and told anyone who doesn't subscribe is a lunatic.

And fuck... I sound like a paranoid conspira-loon, I'm more like my dad than I expected to be 20 years ago.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My diagnosis...

Yes, he's a Cnut.

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Re: Mz Diaganosis...

You mean we are not supposed to be living in a dystopia where the stupid, wax skinned, fat arsed ponces say silly things?

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Re: My diagnosis...

Yeah nah... actually it's going in the reverse direction... the internet will default free speech to the American settings - which are very strongly protected indeed by the 1st amendment.

My point was the futility of trying to swim against that tide.

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Unhappy

Re: My diagnosis...

"""Not going to happen quickly, and there will be workarounds (thank fuck) but for the non-techy guy on the street they'll be fed a diet of pure shit from on high and told anyone who doesn't subscribe is a lunatic."""

90% of the BBC 's content anyone? :-(

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An excellent idea

"UK prime minister David Cameron has called for “extremist material” to be taken offline by governments"

Absolutely! Get the Daily Mail offline right now!

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So that's

BNP,

EDL,

Ingurlund Furzt,

Westboro Baptist Church

plenty to pick Dave-- where will you start?

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When is a spade not a spade? Whenever it is shovel not knowing when to stop digging.

Will someone please tell that numptie Cameron and his ilk that the internet is not an ungoverned space and place for pathetic non-leadership.

What an embarrassment it is for it to be thought so and for old methods and bit players to be thought relevant to its future progress and expanding well-being.

Is not the likes of the Palace and GCHQ and whatever else would be passing itself off as an intelligence source worthy of succour and listening to, not duty and honour bound to provide political muppets a competent and believable script that can be accepted as gospel and followed without punters realising that they have nothing valuable to offer and be a global laughing stock.

FFS ...... get your APT ACT together, Blighty, and quit messing around with fools who be useless tools.

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Media Influence

Look at the X-factor, that has managed to make hundreds of thousands of people believe that that can sing and actually make money out of their (lack of) talent. Maybe, David is right after all. The Government through it's industry puppets should decide what we are allowed/not allowed to see, like they do in Syria, North Korea, Iran. I already get lovely messages from my ISP that say "...this search content has be removed to protect....someone or something". Trouble is, I have no idea what was removed and why I shouldn't see it as they provide no URL or sample content.

Sorry about the rant, but censorship to protect the innocent, vulnerable and easily influenced often ends with censorship that subverts: free speech, constructive criticism and disillusion.

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ISPs?

where do people sit on the obligations of ISPs on this? Always very quiet when it comes to finger pointing, should it not be they who should be given a bit more stick in the *propogation* of terrorist material?

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Re: ISPs?

What has it got to do with the ISP's? They haven't created the material, and they haven't 'propogated' it either, they have merely provided a set of wet strings along which we can communicate with one another.

The lines are probably a bit more blurred when it comes to search engines though.

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Re: ISPs?

Why the ISPs? They're not hosting the stuff.

It's like asking newsagents to spot dodgy newspapers when it should be the publishers, if anyone at all. If I get something I don't like in the post it's not the postman's job or responsiblity it's the sender/host.

And with web pages I find that, as a rule, if I go to a web page then I usually wish to go there in the first place. So I am hardly likely to report it, am I?

If these web pages are freely available to be stumbled upon via the likes of Google (or even Bing! on a good day) then there is more than an even's chance that GCHQ has been there already. So there would be no need for a Jihad Button.

If the web page is on the dark net and I am wanting to go there then the Cameron Jihad Ahoy button won't be pressed at all.

None of what he says makes any sense whatsoever. Then again, he is a politician.

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Anonymous Coward

the film wasn't paranoia

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Extremist material

such as: Cameron shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Yep, I'm an extremist.

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Mushroom

Fighting Fire with Petrol

I like that the root causes of violence (crime/terrorism/etc) of poverty and disenfranchisement don't have any play in terrorism.

The people who are susceptible to radicalization are typically poor, and feel that they have been abused and can not do anything to change the abuse via legitimate means (this may be true, or it may not, but that is the typical perception). So the way to reduce that is to squash what they can see or say as "Extremest Material", making them feel even more persecuted and powerless?

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Most "bad stuff" is hosted overseas

So, if the government of Kablobistan doesn't track down somebody's server and unplug it, Cameron will invade Kablobistan and track down the server and unplug it?

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Re: Most "bad stuff" is hosted overseas

He won't need to - he will simply call the Crazydent of the United States of Bomberica and they will get the server with drone.

Sorry.

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Devil

Re: Most "bad stuff" is hosted overseas

No, he's talking about breaking into your home and unplugging your computer.

You silly ;-)

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Re: Most "bad stuff" is hosted overseas

Yes, and liberate their oil too.

Just for safe keeping until they ask for it back at the end of school term

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This is the wrong battle to fight

There is no way to remove all of the bad content they will just upload more on different sites and send out the new URLs.

So what do we do?

The way to win this battle is to upload so much $hit content using the search terms that would find this horrific content that it becomes completely invisible on the internet. Then every time someone searches for ISIS or hate filled content or similar they will end up with an episode of peppa pig or teletubbies. That is how you fight a war of information

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Re: This is the wrong battle to fight

You mean they don't already?

The number of tomes I have googled a search term only to find myself in entirely unrelated areas of (complete non) interest.

All the pattern tells me is who is paying google.

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Facepalm

Re: This is the wrong battle to fight

Cameron like all the useless people in power has not heard of the Streisand Effect.

Well probably he's more worried in making it disappear so no one thinks about this, rather than really doing something about it.

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Mental gymnastics & cognitive dissonance?

> UK prime minister David Cameron has called for “extremist material” to be taken offline by governments, with help from network operators.

> Cameron spoke of Australia and Britain's long shared history, common belief in freedom and openness

Am I the only one who see's the hypocrisy in these two statements?

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Re: Mental gymnastics & cognitive dissonance?

I keep seeing the name Cameron so perhaps he is getting a message across.

I vote we start calling him arsebiscuit from now on. Unless someone takes up a suggestion and terminates the arsebiscuit.

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Anonymous Coward

Censorship

Censorship by another name. Those good ol' boys in the government (and I'm talking about ANY government here) just cannot wait to pass draconian laws limiting the internet in any way they see fit. However, I feel it may be a losing battle, as there always seems to be a way around any government shenanigans - take China, for example. They try soooooo hard to maintain control of the net and their citizens but it doesn't really work. Cameron should take note and maybe get some advisers in who actually know how the internet really works and tell him he's fighting a losing battle. Alleged extremist material (and who's to actually decide this criterion?) will always be out there. Distasteful it may be but Cameron's proposals look suspiciously like the thin end of a very large wedge to me.

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Anonymous Coward

Stupid rhetoric

The last stupid politician to say exactly the same and over CB radios was put into oblivion. That was Shirley someone or other (Williams?) she was then in Labour. What happened oh yes Labour got kicked out and she sank after trying to start another party. I object to fraud, and "bad " sites, but to scan the whole internet all the time in all languages is impossible, and therefore stupid. An indication of how little is understood in the real world.

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This post has been deleted by its author

Re: Extreme Government

Not sure I understand - how would a party of personal assistants help the democratic cause?

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