back to article Sit back down, Julian Assange™, you're not going anywhere just yet

Head WikiLeaker Julian Assange™'s latest bid to move off Ecuador's couch and back into normal digs has failed: a Swedish court has upheld the arrest warrant against him on allegations of sexual assault. Assange's lawyers filed a petition to withdraw the warrant on Tuesday, in hopes that the WikiLeaks founder could avoid …

Re: Er, timing? @ mmeier

Depends on wether there is a little extra coming in like "Having unprotected sex while carrying an STD". THAT does carry a much heavier punishment in many countries. The whole "blood/DNA sample refusal" makes ME wonder about it. Not to mention that some of his character traits and the Syph match nicely...

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Facepalm

Re: Er, timing?

"But did't he breach bail to avoid deportation"

Erm, yes, and his bail bond was set in order that he could appeal the extradition order. He did that, and lost, and so threw his toys out of the pram. Who's using circular reasoning?? He was bailed pending the outcome of the court hearing - that's been heard, he lost.

"Extradition without charge is incredibly uncommon"

In Sweden, he can't be charged without being arrested.

" I he goes to Sweden and is not charged, he can be deported to the US right away."

Yet again, he can be extradited from here to the US if so desired. He also can't be deported to the US "right away". For the Swedes to extradite him onwards to the US, they must first get the same permissions from the UK as if he were here, so again the question, why on earth would "they" need to do it via Sweden when all the same legal hurdles are in place plus Sweden's?

The New Statesman sums it up rather well if you feel like reading the debunking in full:

http://www.newstatesman.com/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition

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Re: Er, timing?

An extradition from Sweden would *not* require permission from the UK at all.

The reason is that there exists no extradition request (from the US) currently.

The UK cannot limit the terms of the request with hypothetical cases.

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Re: Er, timing?

"For the Swedes to extradite him onwards to the US, they must first get the same permissions from the UK as if he were here, so again the question, why on earth would "they" need to do it via Sweden when all the same legal hurdles are in place plus Sweden's?"

To deport him from the UK you'd need Australia's permission. He's a Commonwealth citizen, you see.

From Sweden you just need the UK (good lapdog) and Sweden of course (the very country that serves as a NSA foothold for EU surveillance... what are the chances of them saying no?).

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Re: Er, timing?

The UK has "next right of trial" on St. Julian for skiping bail. So once the Swedes are done with him he goes back to the UK for that and possible some civil law trials from the persons putting up the money for the bond.

AFTER that whoever else wants him can have the bodyparts.

Hmmm - I have heard that "screwing the PoWs wive" still carries "hanged, drawn and quartered" in the UK. Any chance we could get Assange to do that?

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Re: Er, timing?

"From Sweden you just need the UK (good lapdog) and Sweden of course (the very country that serves as a NSA foothold for EU surveillance... what are the chances of them saying no?)."

From Sweden, you just need the UK plus any original conditions they would have to meet including Australia.

But all of this is moot, given Assange has already stated that even if Sweden drop the warrant, he wouldn't leave the embassy. So he (and the faithful followers who believe he can do no wrong and even it he did wrong shouldn't have to face it) is arguing over something that he's already said wouldn't matter.

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Re: Er, timing?

"Hmmm - I have heard that "screwing the PoWs wive" still carries "hanged, drawn and quartered" in the UK. Any chance we could get Assange to do that?"

No crime in the UK carries a death sentence. Removal of such statutes is a requirement for EU membership.

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Re: Er, timing?

>The UK has "next right of trial" on St. Julian for skiping bail. So once the Swedes are done with him he goes back to the UK for that

Word of the street is, the US has a sealed injunction waiting that far predates the bail-jumping. If that's true, IANAL but I think it has precedence as the charges would be both pre-dating the bail-jumping AND more serious. Otherwise the bail-jump may have been a clever tactic from the white-haired one to be prosecuted for something -anything- outside of the US... but again, given the possibility of the sealed injunction, that's a pretty huge chance to take.

> civil law trials from the persons putting up the money for the bond

Yeah, I would not count on that. Anyway that would not prevent extradition. Chronology.

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Re: Er, timing?

"From Sweden, you just need the UK plus any original conditions they would have to meet including Australia."

Sweden is not bound by Commonwealth rules, and the UK would not be the extraditing party, so no. That is not recursive. Sweden would not be asking "do you agree with extradition" but "Is there anything you want with him before we send him away", which are very different questions.

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Re: Er, timing?

> I have heard that "screwing the PoWs wive" still carries "hanged, drawn and quartered" in the UK. Any chance we could get Assange to do that?

She probably wishes! But death penalty doesn't exist in the UK anymore. Civilized country, all that.

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Re: Er, timing?

>No crime in the UK carries a death sentence. Removal of such statutes is a requirement for EU >membership.

It may be now but it wasn't in the past. France is a founding member of the EU but only abolished the death penalty in 1981. GB became a member in 1973 but the final abolishment of the death penalty was 1998 (for cases of treason and piracy)

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Anonymous Coward

Just wait 30 years

and then go senile and they will drop the charges, like other alleged individuals.

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Going nowhere

This scumbag individual is going nowhere. Ecuador are highly unlikely to give him up now. UK police are not going in after him. He's unlikely to leave the building because at some point he will have to touch UK soil and then plod will have him. Ecuador can't currently make him a diplomat, because he's not Ecuadoran. He can't come out in a diplomatic bag because he's not a document.

There will have to be some fundamental change in the law, or someone will have to back down and eat some mahoosive humble pie before this toerag goes anywhere.

(Useful, if slightly old, background here.)

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Re: Going nowhere

"Ecuador can't currently make him a diplomat"

More crucially and relevantly, they can't make him a diplomat because the UK is not required to accept every diplomat's credentials. Diplomats have to be accepted by a host nation. You can't just hand Mad Jack Killer of Thousands a diplomatic passport and send him off as an ambassador to a host nation who don't want him there.

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Re: He can't come out in a diplomatic bag

Sure he can. That's a time tested method of smuggling someone out of a country. Admittedly it's usually a box not a bag, but it's been done and it is still covered as a document.

No, the reason the Ecuadorians haven't smuggled him out is very, very simple, and something the Assanhats can't comprehend about St. Julian: no other sane person wants this POS in their country.

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Re: He can't come out in a diplomatic bag

"Sure he can. That's a time tested method of smuggling someone out of a country. Admittedly it's usually a box not a bag, but it's been done and it is still covered as a document."

No it's not. It's a breach of the Vienna Convention to do so. Granted, breaking diplomatic seals on person-shaped boxes is still seen as naughty, but if the hunch was correct and the box contains a bunch of people, a pile of charlie and a box of SAMs, then it's the nation sending the bag that's disgraced.

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Mad

Have I understood this correctly? The UK has spent £6 million preventing Assange from escaping because a Swedish prosecutor cannot be arsed to get onto an aeroplane to London? The English should stick their fingers up to the stuck-up Swede and give her until the end of next week to shift her arse over here and then let Assange leave. If she can't be arsed to come here then she clearly does not consider the case against Assange to be that serious.

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Re: Mad

And why the ^%$^ should the prosecutor let the suspect dictate the conditions? That's a seriously slippery slope you're suggesting, but it seems people can't think straight when it comes to their beloved hero Assange.

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Re: Mad

"a seriously slippery slope "

Why? However much of an arse he is, his rights and fears shouldn't be subjugated to the comfort of the state. He has voiced a fear that he would be extradited to the US should he return to Sweden. Sweden seems to have done nothing to allay those fears. They could interview him in London, or issue an assurance that he wouldn't be extradited after being interviewed in Sweden. Surely that's not such a big deal. And then it would fall to Assange to show how much honour he has.

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Re: Mad

"The UK has spent £6 million preventing Assange from escaping"

Actually, now it's because he skipped bail to carry on his media circus from an embassy and pretend he's more important than he is.

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Re: Mad

"his rights and fears shouldn't be subjugated to the comfort of the state."

Neither should they be pandered to because he has gone to extreme lengths to avoid extradition (to Sweden).

As for the US wanting him, that's a very tired old argument considering if they wanted him they would have just asked their best bumchums in the UK government to sort it out long ago. [Speculation] In fact if the US wanted to pump him for info they'll probably just infiltrate his online circle of friends (if they haven't already).

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Re: Mad

"The UK has spent £6 million preventing Assange from escaping because a Swedish prosecutor cannot be arsed to get onto an aeroplane to London?"

No, the UK has spent £6 because Assange is a fugitive bail jumper.

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@acacacac

Well in this case, no charges have been filed, that is the problem, surely no extradition should be granted unless a charge has been filed.. and really, the actual charges are a bit odd from my perspective, but then again all I know of it is from the media..... but I can't see how he can get an impartial trial now with all this media attention most people will have a biased opinion for or against him...

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Silver badge

Re: Mad

However much of an arse he is, his rights and fears shouldn't be subjugated to the comfort of the state.

What a load of bollocks. You cannot ignore the law because of "fears". All that does is say that your personal inclination is more important than our laws.

<p>Sweden seems to have done nothing to allay those fears. They could interview him in London, or issue an assurance that he wouldn't be extradited after being interviewed in Sweden.</p>

He has been given those assurances, he "fears" that they are not being forthright and will extradite him anyway, despite it being against Swedish and EU law, so he is ignoring our laws.

And you're still apologizing and justifying his behaviour and actions..

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Re: Mad

"He has been given those assurances"

Really. I don't recall seeing that reported in The Register where they generally like to report on his arrogant behavior.

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Re: @acacacac

"Well in this case, no charges have been filed, that is the problem, surely no extradition should be granted unless a charge has been filed."

That's not how the laws work.

"but I can't see how he can get an impartial trial now"

An impartial trial for what? You appear labouring under the mistaken idea that trials in most of the rest of the world involve a jury of peers (Hint: Sweden uses the Roman System) or that straight out Contempt of Court for bail jumping is likely to be judged by a jury, rather than settled by a Judge.

No jury will be involved in either matter.

But don't let that stop you debating points of law.

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Re: Mad

"his rights and fears shouldn't be subjugated to the comfort of the state."

So if I'm afraid that people will beat me up in prison, I shouldn't have to go to prison?

Sounds legit.

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Silver badge
Stop

Why should the Swedes come here ?

Their legal system doesn't allow for interviews to be held outside Sweden, which is fair enough. I would wager the UK system is the same.

Why should *Assange* get to make the rules ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why should the Swedes come here ?

Their legal system doesn't allow for interviews to be held outside Sweden

Yes it does.

In a witness statement submitted in the extradition proceedings in London, dated 4 February 2011, she [Marianne Ny] admitted that it was possible for her to interview Assange in London within the framework of a system for legal co-operation called Mutual Legal Assistance. However, Ms. Ny claimed, that would not be ”an appropriate course” to take, because she considered it necessary to interrogate Assange ”in person”.

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Am I missing something here?

The Swedes can't interview him in London because, er... he's in the Ecuadorean embassy which, to all intents and purposes, is a little chunk of Ecuador. If Assange doesn't want to speak to the Swedes (and the fact that he fled Sweden when they asked him to talk to them implies that he doesn't) then they can't force him to speak to them, at the very least the Ecuadoreans will simply deny any Swedes access to their embassy or their house guest.

Assange won't leave the Embassy because the moment he steps outside he will be, quite rightly, arrested for breaching the UK bail conditions. I'm sure some of the Liberal numpties who put up his bail would also like to have him in civil court to attempt to get some of their money back so expect some civil supoenas to be processed immediately as well.

British police can't go in and get him, unless they order the closing of the Ecuadorean embassy, which they're not going to do, but they also can't just let the little twat walk out of the country, so have to maintain a vigil for the moment the white-haired muppet leaves the Embassy's 'protection' while enduring the continued presence of their fugitive on Russia Today! Fancy letting someone who shows that much respect to your country's laws, reputation and society waltz off to the rainforest - Nope, neither does any home secretary.

So it's nothing to do with lazy Swedes, or incompetent Met police, but everything to do with a self-righteous, self-important asshole who thinks that laws do not apply to him, and a country that is pissed off with the western world seeing an opportunity to willy-wave on the global stage versus the rest of the world (less the Guardian readership) saying 'No, you are NOT going to get away with this. This kind of behaviour is an attack on the very bedrock on which our societies are built'.

I suspect this will go on for a long time, and may well require a change of government in Ecuador to resolve the matter.

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Re: waltz off to the rainforest

Oh, I'd be perfectly willing to do that. There would however, be some additional conditions.

1. He will be delivered into the jungle by parachute air drop.

2. Except for the parachute he will be naked when he jumps.

3. He will take no additional supplies with him.

4. He will jump when told to do so by the police escorting him to the jungle.

The police will of course make best efforts to avoid alligator and piranha waters.

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Coat

Tin foil theory - he's not there anymore and hasn't been for a long time

He's already fled, having had visitors to perform some plastic surgery and then left under a false passport without anyone batting an eyelid. Classic misdirection. He's now sitting on his island protected by piranha and laser cannons...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tin foil theory - he's not there anymore and hasn't been for a long time

I doubt any amount of plastic surgery would be able to reduce that massive ego.

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Silver badge
Headmaster

"Although Assange maintains his innocence of the Swedish allegations – and no charges have been filed against him..."

Yes, that is why Police have powers of arrest - so they can investigate allegations and determine if charges are appropriate. They cannot charge him until they investigate fully, that would clearly be a breach of human rights or at the very least would jeopordise any potential trial as a technical failure.

The simple answer is that the Swedish offices come to Ecuador (UK) and interview Assange. They can then decide either to charge him, or remove the arrest warrant. That then only leaves the UK laws he's broken.

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Except that outside of Sweden the swedish court can not force a blood test / DNA sample from him. And THAT is a critical demand of them. One that St. Julian has refused before. As he did an offer to be interviewed in the Swedish embassy (That is - Swedish territory, see DNA sample)

Makes one wonder what he has to hide...

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Anonymous Coward

No doubth there's more to it but

arguing that an "arrest warrant should be thrown out because it cannot be enforced while Assange is holed up in the Ecuadoran embassy" seems a bit of of lawyer's trick ?

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Bit of a rubbish siege when they're still letting food and water in. This could go on for years, someone send a few smoke bombs in and pull the fire alarm.

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The police may not be allowed to do so, but nothing (much) to stop a member of the public from setting off the fire alarm. It will be quite a long time before I next visit London, so if someone else gets there first, it would be much appreciated by lots of people...

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Anonymous Coward

The police may not be allowed to do so, but nothing (much) to stop a member of the public from setting off the fire alarm.

Let me get this straight, people are complaining about £6M spent on what law enforcement quite simply has to do, but have no problem advocating an approach that will:

- cost a lot of money in emergency services use

- creates risk by having said emergency vehicles speed through traffic - and not be available for other, *real* emergencies

- create a diplomatic incident

- possibly land them in jail?

He really isn't worth that. Personally, I'd leave him where he is. It's very simply Ecuador's problem, and I'm pretty sure whoever allowed him in is already very, very sorry about that. If I were running this embassy I'd force that person to share Assenge's room, but that would truly be a Human Rights violation..

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You can get an awful lot of fire engines to turn up before you have spent anything like £6m

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FAIL

Twisted logic : Fail

"Assange's lawyers argued that the Swedish arrest warrant should be thrown out because it cannot be enforced while Assange is holed up in the Ecuadoran embassy"

It can't be enforced becuase the guy is on the lamb.

How can any lawer keep a stright face when putting forward this faulty twisted logic?

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Re: How can any lawer keep a stright face

As long as the money keeps rolling in to pay his fees. But outside of the public eye they'll tell you "Of course the mofo is guilty as hell!"

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Silver badge

Re: How can any lawer keep a stright face

"Of course the mofo is guilty as hell!"

Absolutely! He's guilty of skipping bail.

Cannot be disputed.

Clear as day.

Guilty as charged, everyone, even Assange, knows that.

And he hasn't been charged with anything else.

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Re: How can any lawer keep a stright face

Because under swedish law the normal way is a final hearing and THEN a charge!

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Devil

Re: Twisted logic : Fail

"It can't be enforced becuase the guy is on the lamb."

He's in the Ecuadorian embassy, not New Zealand's.

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Silver badge

Simple solution

All Mr. Assange has to do is become an MP and declare himself (privately) to have a penchant for young choir boys.

He'll then enjoy the complete protection of the British establishment as one of their own.

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Operation Winkle

I'm surprised some emergency hasn't happened that needed the embassy (a.k.a. flat) to be evacuated due to safety reasons, e.g fire, flood, gas leak in one of the other flats etc. Once Assange was outside and safely on the pavement he could be nicked as he'd be back on UK Territory.

I don't think people are trying hard enough.

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Silver badge

Re: Operation Winkle

He'd not leave until the flames were tickling his arse.

He's clearly not too bright, but even Assange isn't going to be tricked into leaving the building.

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Trollface

Re: but even Assange isn't going to be tricked into leaving

So you're saying we need to actually set fire to the building? Seems a bit extreme to me, but if you say so, OK.

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Silver badge
Coat

Re: Operation Winkle

"He'd not leave until the flames were tickling his arse."

And this presents a problem, why, exactly?

My can of chlorine trifluoride is in my other coat...

<note: please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride and then run away very quickly>

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