back to article Facebook pays $19bn for WhatsApp. Yep. $45 for YOUR phone book

Putting a man on the Moon cost less than what Facebook paid for WhatsApp, a generic chat app. So why is Facebook paying $45 per user to gain functionality it already has? The silly numbers look even sillier when you consider Facebook's own Messenger only lags narrowly behind WhatsApp in terms of usage. Facebook Messenger …

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    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: Looks like

      New WonderApp -- Ex-WonderApp now reduced to villain.

      And so it goes . . .

      (anyone still use Habbo Hotel?)

    2. vagabondo

      Re: Looks like

      But does deleting her account remove the data she has already given to them from their servers?

    3. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Looks like

      That should have read Threema has jumped from nowhere to 4th place in the paid apps chart...

    4. csumpi
      Devil

      Re: Looks like

      "people are leaving WhatsApp in droves"

      Apparently, too little, too late. Since WhatsApp already has what they wanted and sold it to the Zuck for $45 a pop.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Communication, Communication, Communication

    1. Social networking dominated - Check

    2. Instant messaging dominated - Check (SMS on downturn, text over IP on upturn)

    3. Voice sewn up - on the todo list (add VoIP to WhatsApp with 450m telephone numbers).

    4. Telco's crapping in their pants - Check (who's gonna buy minutes and texts now?)

    5. Monopolies & Mergers Commission (or US equivalent) circumvented - Check

    4 out of 5 not bad for $16bn

    Who shall we buy next, Yahoo & Flickr?

    1. PaulR79

      Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

      Telcos crapping in their pants? I highly doubt it. To get any of these you still need a data plan of some sort or permanent access to WiFi and you have to be sure that the person you want to talk to has the same. The majority still charge outrageous amounts for data and unless (until?) something like WhatsCrap and data plans are part of every single phone sold they will never replace the utility of SMS.

      SMS - they may be short, they may be relatively useless for expressing yourself but they're still part of practically every mobile phone sold on the planet. Suddenly 310 million users doesn't seem that many.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: charge outrageous amounts for data

        Actually no, Mobile Data is too cheap compared to Broadband Data. Voice and SMS subsidise it as they are GROSSLY over priced.

        About £20 of voice is about 135 M byte (depending on Codec and Country). Incoming termination charges about equal outgoing call costs. If the call isn't on their own network. SMS costs them nearly nothing.

        Almost all data is I/O from the Mobile Network and ALL of it, both directions is paid for to other parties per Mbyte transferred, not by time.

        1. Mark .

          Re: charge outrageous amounts for data

          For anyone on contract, it's hard to separate the costs to the user, but it's common these days to have unlimited texts, and I have more minutes than I ever would use, but it's data that is the most limiting.

          Even on PAYG, SMSs can be cheaper to the user if you only send a few per day, if you're not using Internet (but if you are using Internet, then sending extra messages through the Internet is much cheaper).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

        WiFi at home - included in broadband subscription

        WiFI at work - free

        WiFi in shopping malls - free

        WiFI in bars and restaurants - free

        WiFi hotspot access - many telcos include them in the bundle

        The only time these days I have needed to pay for WiFi is on board a flight or a rail service.

        Cheap/free WiFi more available than you might think. I think telcos will be keeping an eye on such developments.

        1. Mark .

          Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

          I'm not sure Wifi at work is commonplace, even in offices, plus people may prefer to use their own mobile for privacy reasons (the same way that some people will now check Facebook on their phone at work, even though they could just use the work Internet-connected PC).

          Malls/bars/restaurants - a large number of these are those annoying ones you have to sign up and log in. It's easier to use my mobile data. Plus the faff of finding it out - if I'm in a shopping centre and want to send a text or look something up on the Internet, I don't want to have to faff finding out whether there is free "Mall Wifi", and if I can find its password. That's assuming I'm in a "mall", most shops in the UK aren't. Then it's not uncommon that Wifi connection is poor quality, and I'm better off staying with mobile.

          I have BT hotspots included in my contract, though the rare times I remember to look for it, there are none nearby. Plus you're contradicting yourself here - you're arguing that Telcos have nothing to sell anymore, because people can instead use a service sold by the Telco?

          I'm still going to want mobile data in order to cover all the places where Wifi isn't available, which for me is most places outside of home, and since I've got mobile data, it's usually easier to keep using that rather than faff with seeing if I can find Wifi at any random point.

    2. Daemon-Byte

      Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

      Norway's telcos have already seen the writing on the wall and responded. All but the cheapest package now offers unlimited calls and texts across all the telcos. So from £20 you can have unlimited everything except data. Now you pay through the nose for that. £20 plan = 1gb £30 plan = 3gb. No such think as an unlimited data phone plan anymore. Suddenly all the apps are more expensive than using the phone as a phone.

      1. TwistUrCapBack

        Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

        quote " No such think as an unlimited data phone plan anymore. "

        I have a 3 PAYG sim ..

        £15 a month gets me 300 mins, 3000 texts, and all you can eat data.

        Thank you very much

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

      "Who shall we buy next, Yahoo & Flickr?"

      Hopefully AOHell. Sink two boats with one torpedo.

      Or get Yahoo! and AOL to link up first. Make it a nice threesome.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

      Laughter turns to tears when Apple and Google decide to kiss and make up (or at least put the boot in together) and link their messaging services - then who really needs WhatsApp?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Communication, Communication, Communication

        Laughter turns to tears when Apple and Google decide to kiss and make up

        Luckily for Facebook/WhatsApp both Apple and Google desire what Facebook has, and wouldn't cooperate with anyone if the end result wasn't exclusive to them.

  2. Ted Treen
    Happy

    Speak for yourself...

    "...The biggest idiot today isn't Facebook. It's us..."

    Not if you never had, currently don't have, and never will have a Facebook account or presence.

    1. Captain Hogwash
      Facepalm

      Re: Speak for yourself...

      It's us for allowing politicians to give our data away. If we're going to let them pass it on to a third party they should at least do it, for our benefit, at a price that does more than cover administration costs. It's generally a good idea to look beyond the headline. Particularly of one of Andrew's articles.

    2. Ian Michael Gumby

      @Ted Treen ...Re: Speak for yourself...

      You may not use facebook.

      I may not use facebook.

      But I'll wager that you have family members that use facebook.

      They put up a family photo on their 'wall' and tag the images. Now your face is on facebook. They know who you are. With Whatsapp, they have your phone number, your email, and your relationship to your family members who are on facebook.

      You and I are idiots by association.

      The only way to escape is to become unplugged.

      You can go underground if you want to... but it means taking some steps that will reduce your exposure but doesn't remove it completely....

    3. Eddy Ito
      Thumb Up

      Re: Speak for yourself...

      You are aware the whole point of all this is so they can assemble your social network from the outside, aren't you? It's pretty trivial for them to make some assumptions when you show up on the contact lists of Julie, Frank and Tom and so does Jill, Joey and Kate it will be a fairly safe bet that you also know Jill, Joey and Kate especially when they reference Julie's pictures and one has the caption "A night out with Kate, Joe and Ted" and Frank's feed that say "My buddy Ted just got this new car and I was surprised how well the Tata Nano rides".

      You don't have to sell yourself out, others will happily do it for you. Thumbs up for trying, it's too late for me but I hope you succeed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Speak for yourself...

        re: Eddy Ito

        Oh, great. Most of the people who have my phone number are aging strippers.

        1. Jan 0 Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: Speak for yourself...

          Are you sure they're not ageing stripers?

    4. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Speak for yourself...

      What about your friends and/or relatives with your details? Are none of them on Facebook or Whatsapp etc?

    5. b0hem1us

      Re: Speak for yourself...

      Wrong! How many idiot friends with your phone number in the dialer who use this do you have?

    6. Chris 244

      Missed the point

      The article is written by a Brit on a British website commenting on the British populace being sold out by their elected leaders for a fraction of a fraction of the value of what is being sold.

      Facebook/WhatsApp is the setup, the HSCIC scheme is the punchline.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "And they're not the biggest mugs. We are"

    NO! *You* are. I'm not mug enough to use fakebook.

    An online directory of total mugs, said it for years but ignored. Suppose it suits it's users.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      At least the way I read it, the last sentence of the article refers to the HSCIC selling our medical data for next to nothing, not to individuals who use social networks (not that is any more valid, as others have pointed out, you don't need to use Facebook or WhatsApp for them to slurp data from you, you'd need to completely disassociate yourself from anyone who uses social networks in order to avoid this sort of slurping, and have done so quite a while ago).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I wouldn't be so smug just yet!

      I hope for your sake that everyone you've ever known or will ever know, never signs up. The second they sign up you are tagged by association!

      Why do you think Mr Zuck keeps buying all these companies? To plug gaps in his knowledge of the world where people like yourself are, those who refuse to get sucked in. You my friend are worth a shit load of money as you keep skirting the fringes, so they have to get ever more creative way to find you somehow. $16bn for a millions of phone numbers and even better a directory detailing how they're connected! Bloody hell, a gift from heaven for Zuck! All he has to do now is tie that back to his on modest warehouse of data and he's laughing all the way to the bank, he will beating the marketing firms off with a shitty stick 'cos they will be beating his door down to get in his good books and get a look at his priceless warehouse of data. Don't kid yourself you're not in there, we all are to greater or lesser extent.

      Now do you still feel safe because you personally never signed up, or are you now worried that one of your mates or family has signed up and sold you out to Zuck's dirty little empire?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The biggest idiot today isn't Facebook.

    It's the people who, after reading all the "nice" things Facebook does, still want to sign up

    and give them all their private data !

  5. Professor Clifton Shallot

    Uninstalled

    Removed WhatsApp this morning following the news.

    -

    As far as medical records go I suppose there's a possible universal benefit in having the data open to examination which does not obviously apply to address books.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Uninstalled

      But did you delete your WhatsApp account? You'll need to reinstall WhatsApp so you can delete it that if you didn't.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Uninstalled

      Removed WhatsApp this morning following the news.

      And what guarantee do you have that WhatsApp has actually deleted all the data it stole from you?

      Some of my phone data is of very high end clients - I am required to read all the T&Cs of applications before I install them and WhatsApp never made the grade, not only because of its data slurping, but also because it does so as a US company, and is thus simply incapable of protecting end user data.

      Your privacy is like virginity: easy to lose, impossible to reclaim, but with less fun when it happens.

      1. Professor Clifton Shallot

        Re: Uninstalled

        And what guarantee do you have that WhatsApp has actually deleted all the data it stole from you?

        None, of course. Unlike you I have absolutely nothing of any real importance to worry about and I'll be honest that I am not too fussed about the whole data slurping thing on a personal level, I just wanted to do whatever is the equivalent in this scenario of voting with my feet.

    3. Number6

      Re: Uninstalled

      Yes, WhatsApp account deleted and app removed from phone here too. As mentioned by someone else, there's no way of checking that they have really deleted the information.

      I never had Facebook on my phone and I've never bothered giving them my phone number by other means (and most of what I have told them is not entirely accurate anyway...), so it'll be a bit irritating if they acquire it by this means.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Facebook Messenger maintains a lead in the USA" along with the largest iPhone user base, you can see why everyone else thinks their a country of mugs.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The biggest idiot today isn't Facebook. It's us.

    yessir, it's you, and all other users. So, what are you (idiots) going to do about it? Click a "thumb down" button? Ah, not invented / patented yet - "thumb down" to that! Well, twitter about it, let the world know about the best course of action and re-twitter it to the stars!

  8. sorry, what?
    Pint

    Personal massaging

    Turn on vibrate, discretely position your device and get a mate to send (14, 1, 2) to you over and over again

  9. HereWeGoAgain

    Known reveune stream for one thing

    After one year free it is one dollar a year. Paying users...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Known reveune stream for one thing

      And they only need about 1/3 of all the people earth to actually pay to get a return on their investment (in about 10 years).

  10. frank ly

    empty Contacts in my phone

    I don't use the Contacts functionality on my Android phone, since I know they will be sniffed and copied by Google and many other apps on there. Many apps need permission to access your contacts in order to work - god alone (and the developers) know why. I use ColorNote which has the ability to recognise a phone number in a Note and highlight it and push it into the dialer for you. Interestingly, Evernote used to have that capability, but it was removed with an update about a year ago.

    How do I know that Colornote won't sniff the phone numbers in my Notes? I don't, but at least it's only one organisation to trust, instead of many.

  11. JDX Gold badge

    If my phonebook is worth £25 and my medical data £100s...

    ... why don't you just offer me the money directly? I bet loads of people would voluntarily sell their information and would at least know they ARE selling it.

  12. Bury the Hammer

    or..

    OR, they're buying out the competition because they're afraid of them. Or afraid of a competitor nicking them. Y'know, like, the reason they bought out Instagram?

  13. Camilla Smythe
    Boffin

    Eh.. ?

    I thought El Reg forums were inhabited with intelligent commentards. Based on above comments along the lines [smug]'Meh. I don't use Facebook'[/smug] I really have to wonder if there is any electrical activity localised in the associated grey matter.

    Hint: If 'your mate' uses Facebook and he 'knows your number', other contact details, Facebook, et al, will know it as well. Are we feeling Smug now?

    1. Daniel B.
      Trollface

      Re: Eh.. ?

      There's only one commenter stating that smug thing … and it's right-winger troll Ted Treen. Don't worry too much about him, and what you stated has already been stated to him as well. :)

    2. mrjohn

      Re: Eh.. ?

      yeah, well I don't have any mates either

  14. itscoldhere

    They're not doing it to get access to your phonebook...

    they're doing it for self-preservation reasons. Google's recent (brushed-off) $1B offer for WhatsApp was in the same vein.

    1. Number6

      Re: They're not doing it to get access to your phonebook...

      Ironically I would have been less bothered by Google buying it. They already have my phone number because I opted to join the Android ecosystem rather than the iOS or one of the less popular options. I sort of assume they know everything I do with my phone anyway, even though I don't use GMail or any of their other services apart from maps and search.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I find it staggering that on a website frequented by supposedly technically competent people, so many believe that not personally having a Facebook account of their own means Facebook won't have access to a big lump of data about them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Exactly!, It would be nice if there was a way to see what is known about you on facebook, and then have a way to remove it though. Can you create an account, search, delete info, and then delete said account?

  16. Irongut

    they're not the biggest mugs. We are

    What do you mean we Tonto?

    FB may have paid $45 for your phone book but I am not on What'sApp, Facebook, Twitter or any other social network (apart from Steam if you count that) so they aren't getting anything on me.

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: they're not the biggest mugs. We are

      And nobody that you're friends with either right? And you only ever browse the web in incognito mode yeah? Because otherwise Facebook already know your email address and name because they've pulled in all of the address book of one of your friends or family, and now they've just got your phone number as well. They can also manage to drop cookies on your machine on some sites.

      They know all the people who are friends with you, and even what they say about you behind your back on facebook.

      Just because *you* don't have a facebook account doesn't mean they don't know quite a bit about you already.

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