back to article The internet is 'a gift from God' says Pope Francis

Pope Francis has shared his thoughts about the Internet, declaring it a wonderful thing but also expressing worries that it impair human relationships and inflict a kind of commercial violence on users. Francis' thoughts are published here under the title “"Communication at the Service of an Authentic Culture of Encounter" - …

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  1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Mushroom

    It's like it's "The Industrial Revolution is the Devil's Work" again.

    Humans pull themselves out of universal utter shite a bit => It was God!! (this actually means, as member of God's Own Franchise, "pay me")

    Living standards improve => This is bad. You must put scare quotes around "better off". Believe in solidarity and communitarian lifestyle instead!! Repent!!!

    It's like having an economist professsor tell you that your lifestyle is rotten, too affluent and somehow undeserved (why are you putting tail fins on your car?) - definitely not socialistic enough - and that you better get on with the War On Poverty. Yeah John Kenneth Galbraith, I'm looking at you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's like it's "The Industrial Revolution is the Devil's Work" again.

      Define "living standards improve".

      For a lot of people in sub-Saharan Africa living standards have gone backwards since the 1950s. The downside of our improved living standards in the West is that some of the improvement has come off the backs of poor people in the Southern Hemisphere.

      And; "living standards improve". Some things are vastly better; modern medicine has better outcomes than it did in, say, the 1970s. Roads are safer. Life expectancy is a bit longer. The smoking ban has been wonderful for asthma sufferers. But...

      Houses and gardens are smaller and more expensive. Traffic is heavier. Social stratification is more rigid and inequality is a lot more visible. I know I'm an old fart, but my grandchildren live in a society which has in some ways regressed relative to the 60s, when I grew up. Sure, they go to State schools, but they go to highly desirable State schools in an area where the house price premium is probably around half a million pounds. The parents are going to be expected to fund their degrees, instead of a grateful State paying me to go to university and relying on me to pay more tax later on. Meanwhile, that housing bubble means that my taxes are going to the Duke of Westminster et al in housing benefit, and the people priced out of the market are blamed for this as if house price hyperinflation was something they caused.

      Economics professors have tried to value intangibles, and it isn't easy. But simple minded capitalist progressivism isn't, in my view over a 50 year timescale, an adequate philosophy.

      1. Tex Arcana

        Re: It's like it's "The Industrial Revolution is the Devil's Work" again.

        "Economics professors have tried to value intangibles, and it isn't easy. But simple minded capitalist progressivism isn't, in my view over a 50 year timescale, an adequate philosophy."

        Economics is like "political science": both utterly worthless fields based upon questionable "science", using illogical and broken "math" to prove spurious "theories" that just dupe the ignorant into thinking they know what they're talking about, enabling them to separate the rubes from their money.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't remember the bible telling us anything about the Internet - plenty about looking after animals and slaves though - but guess that was more important for a book written by man 2k years ago. Perhaps we need Bible 2.0 or for the whole thing to be understood for what it really is.

    1. cyborg
      Alien

      We've got a couple of those in the form of the Muslim and Mormon Holy texts.

      Hmm... maybe Dianetics as well.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        ... and people still fall for it. Yes I'd have a lot of faith in religious book written by a sci-fi writer - right. It would probably make a decent read if people treated it as sci-fi and not religion.

        Maybe Jedi really should be a religion on that basis and George Lucas could pay no tax on his huge wealth??

        Maybe Vodafone should rebrand as Godafone - call itself a religion and pay no tax - oh they don't pay much anyway ;-)

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          If religions had to pay tax (as they should) do you think they would 'relocate' to Vatican City or some tax haven?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Mormon Holy texts"

        I defy anybody with a functioning brain to read the Book of Mormon without the feeling that their brain is dissolving into grey goo and seeping out of their ears. If anybody wonders how the sacred writings of the Jews retained credibility for so long, read the Book of Mormon, reflect that there are Mormons, including apparently highly intelligent ones like Mitt Romney, and note that parts of the Bible really are very well written.

        No, we do have Bible 2.0, but it's in the form of psychology, economics and sociology textbooks. In a hundred years or so when the dust has cleared on research in these rather young subjects, perhaps there will be a canon.

        Though, given the way that the Adam Smith Institute doesn't ever seem to have read the works of the said Adam Smith, just as most Christians seem to have missed out most of the New Testament in their reading, perhaps we shouldn't hope for too much.

        1. Tex Arcana

          Re: "Mormon Holy texts"

          "No, we do have Bible 2.0, but it's in the form of psychology, economics and sociology textbooks. In a hundred years or so when the dust has cleared on research in these rather young subjects, perhaps there will be a canon."

          Science has no "canon": it's all theory that is open to disproof and change. Only religions and corporations have canon and do GM 's and will execute you for questioning them.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    Pish and tosh!

    Everybody knows that the internet is the work fo Herr Albert Gore and no one else.

  4. Cream_DJ
    Angel

    Is the Pope saying...

    That Tim Berners-Lee is God? All hail TBL :)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is the Pope saying...

      yes, let us bow down to his godliness....

      He is certainly more deserving of reverence than the pope or the Catholic church...

  5. AndrueC Silver badge

    This is something truly good, a gift from God

    No, it isn't. It was invented by human beings.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But God was made in our image!

      (I understand Noah told God not to eat so may of the sugar-free Gummi Bears but the invisible fucker never listens)

    2. Tom 38

      This is something truly good, a gift from God

      No, it isn't. It was invented by human beings.

      Are you talking about God or the internet?

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Well, both were, but I meant the latter.

  6. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    FAIL

    Whenever communication is primarily aimed at <...> manipulating others,

    we are dealing with a form of violent aggression

    And once a week the local vicar stands in his shoes for the sermon, with the purpose of what exactly? Obviously not manipulating others, since that would be a form of violent aggression.

    Oh, wait.

    Ah yes, I remember. We're speaking of religion here. Think as I tell you to or I will kill you. Suffer in life that you may have paradise after your death. Accept as sensible that half the human race is inferior by definition, and that the other half also have to do as they're told, on pain of eternal damnation.

    Crawl back under the stone age rock you came from, Religion.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Whenever communication is primarily aimed at <...> manipulating others,

        A clergyman agnostic to god - sounds a bit of a hypocrite - I mean I'd prefer that to a delusional person who cherry picks or mis-represents passages from the bible (perhaps they should read some of the stuff about slavery, genocide / killing in the name of god etc.) for their congregation but people certainly do not need to be religious to do good things.

        The problem is time, effort and benefit is wasted with the addition of proselytising. Then in places like in Africa when they may provide help for aids victims while at same time telling them that condoms are a 'plot' and actually give you aids or make you sterile or similar. Secular organisations also provide this help and genuine advice but without the bible bashing.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All that negative comment

    I'm at best an agnostic, but it gets me that Francis seems to have a better handle on the pros and cons of the Internet than any politician I've ever listened to. He has a nuanced view, and his remarks about the way it has been taken over by commercial interests are to the point. He is no Luddite. He isn't perfect, some of his views are pretty out of date, but with what, getting on for a billion Catholics in the world, whatever you think of organised religion it's better to have someone at the top that has a clue about the modern world than someone who doesn't.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All that negative comment

      "getting on for a billion Catholics in the world"

      If 1BN catholics can get it wrong, 1BN fakebook users are also wrong!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: All that negative comment

        So if we have a billion catholics how many are other christians and are they 'wrong' - then let's see the worlds population is about 7bn so what about the other 2/3rds are they 'wrong' - or are they all wrong? ;-)

  8. Forget It

    BTW, He could be right if

    it helps you know know

    "who is my neighbour?"

  9. Winkypop Silver badge
    FAIL

    Religion

    Nothing but special pleading all the way down.

  10. Grease Monkey Silver badge

    “This is something truly good, a gift from God.”

    Sums up so much religious thinking doesn't it? If it's good it must be a gift from God. That being the case mankind might as well stop trying to innovate because the good stuff obviously just happens becasue God wants it to.

    Bad stuff? Well if you can't blame the devil most of it is down to the free will of man isn't it? How come good stuff never seems to be explained by the free will of man, only the bad stuff?

  11. Stefing

    If God invented the internet...

    then Tim Berners-Lee is God!

    1. Miek
      Coat

      Re: If God invented the internet...

      He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!!!

    2. TRT Silver badge

      Re: If God invented the internet...

      Many spiritual texts agree that there are seven levels of enlightenment through which a soul must pass before communion with the divine. A little like the OSI model.

  12. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

    In other words

    Pr0n is good, ads are bad - you hear that, Google?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't know my neighbour

    but thanks to the internet I know all about them (nethouseprices, linkedin, facebook, zoopla, 192.com)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't know my neighbour

      My mum's neighbour was stoopid enough to have an open Wi-fi connection. Very Christian of them indeed.

  14. NotWorkAdmin

    A billion Catholics and yet

    Vatican's YouTube channel, 80000 subscribers. Comment's always disabled.

    DarkMatter2525's YouTube channel closing on a quarter of a million. Comments always welcome.

    Read from that what you will. I'm not so sure religon is keen on freedom of information.

    1. Joseph Haig

      Re: A billion Catholics and yet

      On Twitter:

      @Pontifex - 3.5 million followers

      @RichardDawkins - 0.8 million followers

      And your point is what, exactly?

      I took the trouble to look up the Vatican's YouTube channel. Yes, it only has 80,000 subscribers. No, most of the videos do not have comments disabled. Read from that what you will but please don't cherry-pick data to fit your opinions.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A billion Catholics and yet

        "On Twitter:

        @Pontifex - 3.5 million followers

        @RichardDawkins - 0.8 million followers

        And your point is what, exactly?"

        The point is, 3.5M people are easily fooled! Don't believe me? Fakebook has over 1BN "followers".

        Those figures ain't "cherry-picked".

        1. Joseph Haig

          Re: A billion Catholics and yet

          Those figures ain't "cherry-picked".

          I think you are missing the point.

          The comment I was replying to pointed out that "Comments always disabled" on the Vatican YouTube channel while on a randomly selected anti-religious channel "Comments always welcome", the implication being that the former wants to discourage discussion (and, by extension, so do all religions) while the latter encourages it. The "cherry-picking" is that the "fact" that this conclusion is based on is rubbish.

          Regarding the numbers of followers on Twitter or YouTube, both are equally meaningless with regards importance. Otherwise, charlieissocoollike should be considered a far greater authority than both the Vatican and DarkMatter2525.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A billion Catholics and yet

        @Pontifex - 3.5 million followers

        @RichardDawkins - 0.8 million followers

        Apples and oranges. Dawkins makes most atheists cringe. Comparing followers of Westbro Baptist Church to Dawkins would be fairer.

  15. Crisp

    It was a gift from Tim Berners Lee

    Although, I could see how you could confuse him with a god.

  16. codejunky Silver badge

    "Pope Francis has shared his thoughts about the Internet, declaring it a wonderful thing but also expressing worries that it impair human relationships and inflict a kind of commercial violence on users."

    Impair relationships like oppression of gays? Inflicting commercial violence on users as the church was famed for and is pretty wealthy.

    "The variety of opinions being aired can be seen as helpful, but it also enables people to barricade themselves behind sources of information which only confirm their own wishes and ideas, or political and economic interests"

    Such as there is a god, you are nothing but a servant or you will suffer eternal damnation, you must believe and everyone else is wrong?

    “Whenever communication is primarily aimed at promoting consumption or manipulating others, we are dealing with a form of violent aggression like that suffered by the man in the parable, who was beaten by robbers and left abandoned on the road.”

    So beware of manipulation because it is the devil trying to take you from god. Do as we say and we will save your souls. Honest :D

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WTF? This man needs sectioned!

    "The internet is 'a gift from God' says Pope Francis"

    Why does any one actually listen? Why has he not been sectioned into a mental hospital for the protection of society?

    Dangerous!

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: WTF? This man needs sectioned!

      And the floods of spam are God's punishment for allowing homosexuals online?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oi! Pope!

    Did god make the TCP/IP model or HTTP?

    Which part of the internet, and when did he make it? Back in the 60's or in the 80's?

    You need to clarify that synaptic misfire!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    People can *think* what they like, as long as it's in the privacy of their own home.

    Religion has no place in civilised society. Keep religion out of politics too.

    We need to help these poor deluded people to understand that a story is a story. No matter how good it is, and is not real.

    Pity.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Didn't the so called God gift humanity before?

    Some kind of apple wasn't it?

    How did that turn out again?

    1. TRT Silver badge

      That was all down to Eve not holding it the right way.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is that Facebook or the NSA he's referring to?

    I think it may be TESCO

  22. Peter Simpson 1
    Linux

    The Internet may be a gift from God...

    ...but Linux is from Linus. I know, I saw the email.

    All Hail Linus, giver of Linux!

  23. LaeMing
    Happy

    Silly Pontif!

    GORE invented the internet, not GOD. GORE!*

    ...

    * yes, I am well aware Gore only really claimed to have invented the expression "information superhighway".

  24. SteveK

    So will IPv6 be the second coming?

  25. Martin Maloney
    Coat

    Gifts can be rescinded

    If Pope Francis didn't like an email that you sent to him, would he then excommunicate you?

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