back to article Windows 7 outstrips Windows 8.x with small November growth

Windows 7 beat Windows 8.x in trench-war battle for growing market share in November. Netmarketshare stats for the month found Windows 7 had increased its share of desktops from 46.42 to 46.64 per cent of machines. This meant it outpaced the Windows 8.x family, which gained just 0.05 per cent. Windows 8 fell from 7.53 per …

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      1. Bootman

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        "And the biggest problem group are the FUD-boys from sector Penguin and the flat out liars from the Gnuliban movement that never tried but throw around "knowledge""

        So is the Linux community a small declining number of people not worth bothering with who will never bust out of the 0.5% or 1% or 2% or whatever it is on the desktop, or is it this huge vocal racketeering mafia influencing potential Windows 8 users into avoiding the product, and pushing Linux like a drug on them instead? If Linux users really do have that sort of sway, then Microsoft are screwed. Or could it be a complete red herring and what people want is the tradtional Windows user interface, and it's easier to blame "Linux" as though it is one entity, rather than Microsoft for the mess they have made of it all.

        As for "Real IT Professionals" who view the OS as a tool to be deployed rather than OS wars and dogma, then that explains clearly why Windows 7 usage is growing at a faster rate than Windows 8. A large percentage of users on this site are indeed "Real IT Professionals". And it appears from the majority view of them on here is that both Windows 7 and Linux are in the main damn fine tools to be used in suituations where they are appropriate, and that Windows 8 generally causes more issues than it solves.

      2. Chemist

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        "And the biggest problem group are the FUD-boys from sector Penguin and the flat out liars from the Gnuliban movement that never tried but throw around "knowledge""

        I think you are wrong. In the main there are 2 problems for Win8 :

        1) Microsoft and its totally unreasonable attitude to users and their feedback

        2) Tablets. If half the market is now tablets and that trend continues it doesn't even matter too much if Win8 does increase its overall share of the desktop market.

        BTW I think if you research The Reg. forums that most of the criticism is from long-time Windows users.

        You do know what FUD means by the way ?

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. mmeier

          Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

          My tablet pc runs just fine under Win8. Well, he did almost as good under Win 7 but I am a pen user and touch is "useless shit / crap causing shiny screens" for me. So does the mobile workstation/convertible I use at the company.

          Customers are quite happy with their Dell and Lenovo units (Lat10/TPT2) since they simply run the existing software without a rewrite. Ever tried running a Swing application on an iToy or Fragmentdroid?

    1. Darryl

      Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

      Skip over 8.0, install 8.1, set the user's preferences to boot to the desktop and set the start button to go to the app list instead of the Start screen, and continue using desktop apps. You're not forced to use Metro apps and they did back off on forcing the start screen down your throat.

    2. Michael Habel

      Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

      Once Win8.1 becomes popular in the home environment - self 'consumer' training, and people are used to it, it will be an easier process in the corporate environment.

      >Implying that Windows Hate will EVER become popular...

      Hell Windows Me was (AND, IS!), more popular then this train wreck.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        >Implying that Windows Hate will EVER become popular...

        Ha saw that Hate instead of 8, brilliant you did miss windoze though so only 5/10

        1. Bootman
          Trollface

          Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

          > Ha saw that Hate instead of 8, brilliant you did miss windoze though so only 5/10

          Yes! Why not regale us with more thrilling tales of "Osama Bin Stallman", the "Gnuliban", "LinSucks", "PinguCrapOS". Or how about getting really creative. "Liar-nus Torvaldes", "Red Shat", "OpenPooSE", "Uc**tu". Such jolly japes and merriment, I must reach for my hip flask and calm down with a game of whist after all this excitement!

  1. buggane
    Thumb Up

    are friends electric?

    Windows 8.x is the Gary Numan of operating systems. You think you don't like it, but if you actually tried it you'd find out that it was pretty good.

    1. Vortex

      Re: are friends electric?

      Chaps with eyeliner trouble me.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: are friends electric?

      I have tried it, and used it a fair bit now and I really don't like it. I don't like the way it tries to shoehorn you in to having a special Microsoft account which everything's tied in to, and I don't like the colours on the screen, and I don't like the poxy programs for travel and stock markets which appear by default, and I don't like the fact that it tries to force you to use touch and mouse is a secondary consideration. It JUST doesn't WORK on a desktop. It doesn't.

      I do like its ability to work with lots of devices and I do like its speed. But it is too much like Apple's OS for me, where you can use it any way you like so long as it's the way Apple like you to.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: are friends electric?

      Gary Numan,

      Also shit pilot - he crashed landed his plane in 1982.

      And no, the more I listened to Numan, the more he grated on me.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: are friends electric?

        He crashed a plane and is still alive? Sounds like a good pilot to me.

        Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. Any landing you can use the plane again is an excellent landing.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: are friends electric?

        An enforced landing is not the same as a crash landing. Bloody sensationalist daily mail wannabe journos...

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: are friends electric?

          "An enforced landing is not the same as a crash landing"

          Nor is it the same as a forced landing. These days enforced landings usually involve a couple of RAF Typhoons and an unplanned detour to a remote part of the tarmac at Stansted.

          1. kain preacher

            Re: are friends electric?

            Well what kind of forced landing ? the kind were they tell you to land now , or the kind were the pilot pulls a trigger ?

    4. Dave K

      Re: are friends electric?

      Sorry, I tried it, used it for a bit, and didn't like it. It has some nice features, but Metro was god-awful and the desktop just looked flat, lifeless and dull. Slapped Windows 7 back on and haven't looked back.

      Windows 8 does have real promise, but there's just a few irritating "gotchas" that hold it back. With the option of a Start Menu, a few nicer themes and the option to turn off Metro on a desktop PC, it'd be great. However at the moment it's sadly lacking these options.

    5. Jess

      Re: are friends electric?

      Windows 8.x partially good, partially incredibly annoying. A bit like having a splinter in your finger. But everything comes down to this: Metro. Remove that and perhaps it will be a dead son rising instead of lost.

      As it is windows 8 is just a hybrid. Pure annoyance.

      1. Shades
        Trollface

        Re: are friends electric?

        Jess wrote:

        "Windows 8.x partially good, partially incredibly annoying. A bit like having a splinter in your finger."
        A splinter in your finger is partially good?? Which OS is a paper cut then?

    6. Piro Silver badge

      Re: are friends electric?

      Sadly not, I tried it, I still don't see the point. At all.

  2. Zmodem

    if the security groups and pofiles worked in windows 7, all corporations would have updated from XP to windows 7, 2 years ago and sold millions more

    1. RonWheeler

      security groups and policies

      PICNIC

      1. Zmodem

        Re: security groups and policies

        its all so pathetic in windows 7, the security on sub files and directories wont inherit from its parent, especially when creating new files is the main thing that does`nt work

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2013/03/10/Zmodem_windows_7_fail/

        when they have fixed it all in a big sp2, there still 100 more options that group profile need, in application policies so you dont have to set the security on every single .exe file 1 by 1

        1. Zmodem

          Re: security groups and policies

          if you install all of your programs and deploy a single image to all PC`s, and have http servers etc running, and different account with different default shells..

          adding a user to a group and enforcing the applocker rule does`nt work either, and services will still start up if a user is not a member of the enforcement group

    2. Chika

      Not really. While security groups and profiles have provided a bit of a problem, the two main problems have been legacy hardware and legacy software, at least in my experience.

      I have had too many instances of W7 machines being installed only to find that the unusual ticket machines they use require a kernel mode driver which W7 doesn't do, or I have to start flicking through the compatibility fixes because some programmer in the dim and distant past didn't bother to consider problems arising from users not running in admin accounts.

      Taking that into consideration as well as the fact that not every organisation wants to go out and re-equip their PC install base every time Microsoft gets a bug up their rectum and releases yet another operating system, especially if what they have does the job that they want it to do, and this is what you get.

      In some ways, the fact that it has been so long since WXP came out could work in W7's favour since many of the machines that have already been changed were falling to bits anyway, but some WXP machines will still be in pretty good nick at this point, especially given the reluctance of companies to go to Vista, "downgrading" these boxes instead.

  3. BigAndos

    One of my customers was in the middle of moving from XP to W8 earlier in the year. Whereas personally I would rather stick with W7 as long as possible, it actually seemed to be going fairly smoothly.

    Having said that, the organisation in question seemed to have hired an army of IT support contractors to floor walk wearing "ask me about Windows 8" t shirts (the lucky chaps and chapesses). When my own company moved to W7 all they needed to do was hand out a few flyers.

  4. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. mmeier

      Re: AutoDesk

      Define "support Win8" please. If you mean "write a Modern-UI app" - well why should they? The Win7 application will run fine on the desktop and the multi window model of the desktop is better suited for that type of application.

      I can understand the "one system to rule them all" approach, mixed environments can be a problem. That's why the family has been given the choice "take Win8 or support yourself" and they have choosen Win8.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: AutoDesk

        "take Win8 or support yourself"

        How Microsoftian.

        1. mmeier

          Re: AutoDesk

          Well, option 3 would have been "Pay me a typical freelancer fee". Between 70€/hour for Win7 and 140€/hour for Linux (20€ for support, 1000€ for the needed medication to dull the pain of touching PinguCrap OS). Sorry but in my own spare time I only support systems for free that I like and use myself. And Solaris on a client is not the prime choice for Joe Average enduser.

          It's like asking me to do a slightly more complex website that goes past mere HTML "for the team/club/other none paying entity". Sure as long as you accept your choice of language is JAVA, JAVA or JAVA. If you want PHP - hire me and pay me.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Alternatively, hire someone who knows what they are doing.

            It's usually cheaper in the long run.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: AutoDesk

      "They are only moving to 7 as software houses, like AutoDesk, have said they have no immediate plans to support 8 (although that may have changed...)"

      Software houses may be more willing to support 8.1 once they no longer have to support XP. For similar reasons (basically cost), they may also be unwilling to support 8.0 ever, simply because 8.1 is a free (and fairly minor) upgrade and why should they add 50% to their testing costs just to save you the download?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: AutoDesk

        "Software houses may be more willing to support 8.1 once they no longer have to support XP. "

        No, it does not make rational.business sense to support Win8 - now -regardless of XP's future. This article proves it, Win8 market share is simply not enough to validate a spund business decision to dedicate a large stake of a large program's development cost to. I'm sorry if that hurts the Win8 supporters, but those are the sale figures quoted right here in this very article.

        In the future? Maybe. Now? A very weak business decision - it is far more sound to develop for Win7 as Win8 can run it anyway.

    3. tempemeaty

      Re: AutoDesk

      As a person who uses 3D Graphic applications I gotta say, "amen brother". If not for Windows 7 on my main computer I'd be sunk.

      As a side note, my second computer, running Windows 8, so sent me into fits of rage with some of some of the Windows 8 idiotic crap getting in the way of my getting anything done that a member of my household thought I was gonna punch the thing. Praise God Almighty that my third computer is using Linux...

  5. lansalot

    it's a simple test...

    How many of your friends with non-touchscreen devices have asked you "how the hell do you get a normal start menu back???"?

    I'm currently standing at 8. Including myself, and I do this fecking job for a living. Classic Shell, for all !

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: it's a simple test...

      "How many of your friends with non-touchscreen devices have asked you "how the hell do you get a normal start menu back???"? "

      First huge tile is 'Desktop'?

    2. mmeier

      Re: it's a simple test...

      Out of 20 that switched to Win8 so far? None, not even my 70+ year old father who is not the most computer savy person. One person has asked for a very specific FEATURE of the menu and got a "oh, I do this over the file menu" from another

  6. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    I'll wait and see what Windows 9 looks like

    In the meantime, I'm treating my Win7 disk as if it was made of solid gold.

    If Win9 sports the same kind of half-baked stupid Microsoftian idea of a PC interface, then I guess I'll be royally screwed and will have to finally submit to the penguin gods.

    I'll like that no more than a new Windows TIFKAM, but at least I'll only have to do it once more, not on a schedule imposed by effing Redmond.

  7. RobHib
    Coat

    ...However, XP will never drop to zero.

    From next April into the foreseeable future, we'll still be using raw XP-sp3 unpatched with no updates.

    For us, the issue's been over for ages. And figures suggest 30+% of the world concurs.

    Boring, next subject please.

    1. btrower

      Re: ...Boring?

      @RobHib:

      This is not going to be boring if the first part of your prediction pans out and there are literally hundreds of millions of XP Users out there.

      If we find ourselves this time next year with more than 100 million XP users then either Microsoft will swoop in with a $99 Windows 9 lite or somebody else will. There is at least 10 billion dollars on the table and that *will* get someone moving eventually.

      We will reach a point where XP just is not viable anymore. It will stop running and it will have to be replaced. Some of that hardware simply cannot run the resource hostile Win 7 or Win 8.

      1. RobHib
        Boffin

        @btrower -- Re: ...Boring?

        Every new version of Windows isn't truly an upgrade nor is it really a new operating system. When Microsoft brings out a new version it's concocted from a mash-up of previous version with some new code and features. The new code is added to entice users to upgrade.

        We pay all over again for the old code from the mash-ups and often this code isn't even touched or upgraded when it's already a source of contention with users. More often than not, it's this old code that users want upgraded and or fixed.

        New versions of Windows are deliberately designed to force users to upgrade. New equipment won't work on older mobos and such so we never have a smooth ride--it becomes an endless cycle of upgrades and patches.

        In an open letter to Microsoft I deal with these issues more explicitly:

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2013/11/07/ie11_for_windows_7_final/#c_2019479

        Sure we'll reach a point were XP isn't viable anymore but for some that will be a long time. I regularly see NT4 and Windows installations that are still running and NT4 is nearly a decade older than XP!

        The fact is there's essentially three classes of users:

        1. IT types, gamers, bleeding-edgers, many El Reg readers etc.-- they'll instantly buy anything new MS comes out with.

        2. Normal users whose most exciting application is MS Office - they'll only upgrade with a replacement machine which has a later O/S already installed.

        3. Industrial and certain commercial users for whom Windows is just another component - these people rarely upgrade components--"if it ain't broke, don't touch it". For them, Windows will get upgraded when the whole plant and equipment is upgraded. Such people talk in terms of 20-30 year cycles.

        I can only add that I know of many NT4, Windows 2000, XP and some Windows 95 and even OS/2 still in operation in the #3 class. Moreover, there are many 'industrial' mobos available deliberately designed to still work on these old OSes--but you won't see them advertised in popular computer mags (but you will at a machine tool or electronic component exhibitions).

        The reason why there is so much old junk in existence is hardly because of cheapskate users, rather it's primarily because of Microsoft's intransigence. If Microsoft paid attention to what users actually wanted and ensured a smooth transition from one version of Windows to the next, then most of the issues would go away.

        Unfortunately, at Microsoft, marketing dominates whereas engineering, user needs and common sense do not.

        QED.

        1. btrower

          Re: @btrower -- ...Boring?

          @RobHib

          Sorry for the necro-post. I just wanted to respond to what you posted.

          I like the fact that you don't mince words as to your displeasure with Microsoft. Although I would be inclined to be a bit less harsh (when able), I agree with much of what you say. MS has created a huge mess with their constant changes in the pursuit of mammon.

          Although I agree with what you say, I think it is tangential to the point I was trying to make. If there are going to be more than 100 million XP holdouts then that represents an enormous marketing opportunity for anyone able to do a replacement. Maybe they might not go for a $100 upgrade, but they surely would go for a $9 upgrade. That would still mean there is something in the neighborhood of $1 billion dollars there. A billion here or there might not be that compelling to Microsoft, but even for them it is worth looking at. More to the point, this represents a competitive threat. In the event that someone does get in there and swaps XP out for their own product, MS will not just have lost $1B, they will have allowed a competitor to gain $1B for a net difference of $2B. Worse, even marginal success of the XP substitute would threaten the entirety of the Windows franchise and since MS products only run on Windows for the most part it threatens the entire ecosystem and strikes at the very heart of the beast.

          Either XP users move upwards along a pathway provided by Microsoft or they will end up jumping ship.

          Other things could happen, of course. Rather than staying on a PC platform users could just upgrade sideways to mobile devices or something. However, at least for a lot of individuals like me there is going to be a need for a local machine.

          For clients that need stability over decades, XP may well stay in place on dedicated devices separated from the network by an air gap. Nobody in their right mind would take an XP system actually doing a job and replace it for no reason. That is true not just of XP, though, and these cases are not under consideration.

  8. gregthecanuck

    Pops likes it

    Just picked up a new ASUS minitower for my dad to replace his old creaking XP box.

    Nice machine on sale for $369. 6GB memory, 1TB disk, zippy AMD A8-6500. Came with Windows 8. Upgraded it to 8.1, set dad up with an outlook.com account which gives him online email synced with Windows 8's mail application (replaces old Outlook Express).

    Automatically recognized his new Samsung laser printer no problem when plugged in first time. He likes the fact that printing works the same now in all Metro apps (from charms). Now does a nice print preview as well which is a nice touch.

    After about an hour dad had it all figured out and thought it was pretty cool. Big smile on his face. He likes the metro UI with the bigger icons and the single-click requirement. Yes he actually liked it, and liked it using a mouse. All the basic apps included such as weather, news and stocks aren't too bad at all, especially for a non-power-user.

    So based on my one-person conversion experience for a typical web-browsing and emailing use-case 8.1 seems to work quite well.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pops likes it

      But that's the problem right there - your dad liked it. "For typical web-browsing and emailing" "For a non-power user".

      Brilliant - big thumbs up for MS making a desktop that non-tech people can use. The problem is that Win 8 by default dumbs things down to a level that many experienced and tech savvy users find annoying. The MS mantra is one interface for everything in your life. But that is just a crock.... I DO NOT want the same interface on my phone, my tablet and my desktop. Different user environments need a different UI - not some one size fits all bodged job.

      1. mmeier

        Re: Pops likes it

        As a software developer (Java Enterprise) I get as close to the mythical "power user" as one will likely get. And I still find Win8 VERY useable. No matter what system from 10'' Atom-driven tablet pc to a dual monitor core-i7 tower. Eclipse and company run like they always did, Modern is a nice start menu replacement for me and the system is a bit smaller, faster and has some useable improvements.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pops likes it

      Sounds like my experience upgrading a relative from XP to Linux Mint.

      Except that I didn't replace the hardware....

  9. DrStrangeLug

    Hated hated hated

    Bought a new laptop recently and it came with 8 installed on it. A very quick instlall to 8.1 yet still it's rubbish.

    All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work, I actually paid £££ for a 3rd party app to get a proper start menu, and it looks and feels just slightly worse that windows 7.

    It's on borrowed time - one big screwup and it goes straight to linux.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: Hated hated hated

      "All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work, I actually paid £££ for a 3rd party app to get a proper start menu"

      I must be doing something wrong - not had any issues like that.

    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Hated hated hated

      All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work

      While I'm no fan of the Win8 shell (user interface) as it sucks balls on almost every level unless used on a touchscreen tablet, I have not noticed the lack of the old keyboard shortcuts as they work for me. I haven't yet wasted time on Microsoft's Office Metro applications, so maybe Microsoft decided to hack their applications in their usual non-standard manner (*) and removed the standard shortcuts, but for everything else I tried they worked ok.

      Win8.1 is a step in the right direction compared to Win8 but only because it's possible to mask some of the Metro ghastliness and user interface (UI/UX) failures.

      * It's always amazed me at Microsoft's stupidity in this regard - the Operating System should provide the look and feel of standard windowing elements however with Microsoft Office, they re-implement the latest look and feel of the latest Windows version in the application instead. While this means that Office 2007 looks near enough the same when running on Windows 7 as Windows XP, it defeats the entire rationale behind the operating system (technically, the shell, but MS have merged them on their mainstream OSes so it makes little difference). But given the awful bodge job hack-from-hell-that-draws-everything-twice that the Windows XP theme layer was on top of the standard windowing elements, I suppose it should be no surprise.

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