back to article 'Burning platform' Elop: I'd SLASH and BURN stuff at Microsoft, TOO

What kind of company would Microsoft be under Stephen Elop, we asked. We have an answer... of sorts. Elop would kill Bing and Xbox as a Microsoft chief executive and go "all business" by developing Office for as many non-Windows devices as possible. Nokia’s CEO is reported by Bloomberg be considering the strategy should he …

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          1. Vociferous

            Re: Why not...

            > In my experience, nothing gets done in business of any worth by committee or by concensus. --- So for the really good stuff you're always looking for a single smart visionary person

            I'd say your experience is extremely limited. Even blinkered.

    1. James 51

      Re: Why not...

      I use sigil for most of my word processing now. Makes structuring text pretty simple (as long as you've got a working knowledge of html and css).

    2. cambsukguy

      Re: Why not...

      I regularly read on here how many alternatives there are to Office apps. I doubt most corporations would force someone to use a particular app to edit some document with so many BYODs around. Since they are 'real' alternatives, no-one should notice the difference.

      So why don't you just vote with your feet and stop using Office and use one of the many alternatives? - even Apple have one now apparently.

      If it is anything like what happened when I installed OOO (or OoO or ooo?) for someone, all I got was desperate request to 'at least put real PowerPoint back' because (apparently, at least that time), the 'alternative' didn't even let you write 'games' in PowerPoint which amounts to neat things happening when the mouse goes to certain points.

      But maybe it will work for you, if not, ask someone to add the feature/fix the code.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Where's the roadmap?

    Not entirely stupid. Selling off those divisions would net them a bit of money. I'm sure some idiot would be prepared to pay for them.

    But it's clear Microsoft have run out of ideas, or at least are too scared of changing Office to ever implement any. (To be fair, the amount of whinging they got when they added the ribbon probably deterred them - but then I'm one of the four people who actually likes it, so I would say that...) From now on, it's subscriptions not selling software, holding your data hostage on their servers, and giving up on anything ever coming to make Office better. Oh, and handing your data to the NSA. They know they have no improvements to Office in the pipeline anyone would pay to upgrade to.

    It's not fit for business users, but I'm excited about Apple making iWork free, with no uploading your data to Apple's servers. If anything could make Microsoft realise that they need to make Office easier to use and more predictable, it's that.

    1. Michael Habel

      Re: Where's the roadmap?

      To be fair, the amount of whinging they got when they added the ribbon probably deterred them.

      Apparently not enough to stop them from birthing that monstrosity otherwise known as TIFKAM!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Where's the roadmap?

        Yes, but the Ribbon was an attempt to make the UI better.

        Metro was a desperate attempt to create a touchscreen UI that wasn't just a ripoff of iOS, and then backport it to Windows to make all Microsoft products look like a family. In other words, a creation of blind panic.

        1. Chika
          Devil

          Re: Where's the roadmap?

          It's a bit like the whole Google+ on YouTube business or the impeding Windows XP support end. They have taken an unpopular step and dumbed down the interface because the people behind it just don't have the smarts to do a proper job, then the marketing types dress it all up as "marvellous", "exciting" and so forth so that you are made to feel out of it if you resist. Then you kill the alternative functionality or, if you can't do that, you scare the users with whatever horror stories you can think up.

          One consideration that was often made when I was still programming was that the programmer was often the worst person to make design decisions because they often frigged about with the application, adding bits that they thought were a good idea, until you get something that is almost completely unusable. That's what I see in the ribbon and in Metro.

          A good bit of programming does what the user wants it to, mostly because they know what they want to do, and at least partly because a good programmer listens to what the user wants to do before they even start designing the application, let alone coding.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Xbox is a dead end

    It's never made them any money when you factor in development and warranty costs. Each time they believe it will be OK next time. Xbox one is third time lucky, and now that's all turning to crap too, with specs that put it only a bit better than current gen and a truckload of features that aren't ready or aren't available outside of the us.

    I can really see Xbox being let go. Hopefully a hardware company will pick it up and do a proper job with it, not the disaster that Microsoft made of it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Xbox is a dead end

      It would be nice to see Sega back in the game again.

      Their last console the Dreamcast supported many games which ran on Windows CE,

      When it was dropped, MS took their place and stepped in to the console wars as the 3rd competitor. The Xbox owed a lot to the Dreamcast, even the controller was similar.

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You Missed an important detail...

    This Gartner source was an anonymous source who has an "insight" into what Elop is thinking.

    Seeing as its the run up to a CEO selection this is definitely a story that needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. This source might just have read about Elop's tenure at Nokia, spoke to some ex-colleagues and decided that gave him/her enough "insight" into his way of thinking, it may be an ex-colleague at Microsoft or Nokia that has an axe to grind, it could be someone that favours one of the other CEOs trying to spread dirt or it could be someone trying to sell Elop to the shareholders.

    Bloomberg is read by stock analysts who in turn advise shareholders. Most shareholders are in it for the short term gain and quarterly profits are more important than long term sustainability. Having someone as CEO who would sell non-profitable segments would raise the quarterly returns and thusly raise the share price making the shareholders happy.

    There's also more to a products worth than its profitability. Google and Apple make losses on Android and iOS (R&D costs vs a zero sale price) yet if anyone even contemplated selling them off their arse would even hit the floor on the way out the door. The Xbox brand is still Microsoft's most loved brand and it pushes Microsoft product and services while also getting people adjusted to newer tech (its no coincidence the Xbox360 and XboxOne use a metro inspired UI) and not having a presence gives Valve, Google and Apple an opportunity to take that foothold. While Bing loses Microsoft money, they'd lose a lot more if they had to licence the service from Google or Yahoo, not just in money terms but in overall control of the Windows platform. Siri and Google Now are merely advanced search engines that run query commands for Android and iOS but are integral to how the platform works, without their own service Microsoft will fall further behind.

  5. wowfood

    IMHO

    I don't think XBox will last past this generation anyway. Not because it's not good (even though I am a sony fan personally) but because of the convergence. They're moving to combine their platforms, they've already moved to combine marketplaces and the hardware of the bone is already pretty much a PC rig. I personally believe that this generation is the gen where Microsoft are going to try to pull all their xbox fans to the PC market now that they've dug their hooks in. Steam are already launching the steambox, and with Microsoft making a foray into hardware I can see them following suit, releasing a new windows 9/10 (or whatever it's called by the time the new gen ends... lets say windows X) so yeah, releasing windows X, on a new rig called teh xBox which is a prebuilt PC running windows X.

    Only competition then would be the steam box,leaving the console space for sony and ninty, which would probably try to hold on to the glory days for one more generation. If either of them decided to join the PC console space I'd see it being Sony, attempting to release their own 'tweaked' version of the steambox with steam, and their own proprietory store as an extra hooked in .

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IMHO

      The Xbox as a traditional console might not survive but it might evolve. Microsoft could turn the Xbox into a platform like Valve is doing with Steam, modify the RT platform with a focus on gaming and set a high and strict core spec with flexibility outside of these specs and licence it out so you'll end up with a Samsung Xbox, an LG Xbox or even a Sky Xbox where they all can play games at the same level but one might support 3D movies, one could be smaller and without a Blu-Ray drive and the Sky model may have the TV receiver built in.

      Microsoft offloads the manufacturing and advertising costs, pushes its app store as apps and games will be based on the main Windows APIs which will in turn drive revenue from the 30% cut they take.

      1. wowfood

        Re: IMHO

        Probably wasn't that clear, but that's pretty much what I was getting at anyway. It does make sense at least, and I wonder if Steam didn't see the same thing on the horizon and have that as another spur that pushed them towards the steambox on linux, just in case Microsoft tried to pull an apple and block third party 'app stores' from Windows X.

    2. Chika

      Re: IMHO

      I agree with the idea of convergeance between the XBone and the PC but given that the PS4 is also mostly a custom PC rig, I'm thinking that the next generation is probably the going to be the last unless somebody, whoever it is, comes up with something amazing. Somehow I can't see Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo doing it right now.

      But you never really know....

      1. wowfood

        Re: IMHO

        Like I said, my bet for sony atm is a steambox style add-on, y'know putting in their own 'custom store' to Steam, a store within a store... store-ception.

        BUT

        Another possibility is sonys HMZ 3d mounted headsets. Despite poor performance (relatively speaking) they keep pressing forward with it. They also have patents on all the brain wave reading crap that doesn't work yet, or doesn't work very well among other things. As doubtful as it is, I think come PS4 sony will start pushing the headset ,and come PS5 (10 years from now, give or take) they'll be trying to pack it all into the headset so you just lie back on your bed and play. No need for space etc, maybe shove on some kind of razor controller that tracks your hands in virtual space.

    3. Vociferous

      Re: IMHO

      Microsoft is desperate to GET OUT of the PC market, they're not intentionally going to drag anyone in.

  6. Ian 55

    I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

    It must be clear to them that the Wii U is a flop and the cost in money and time to bring a successor to the market must be substantial.

    1. Shrimpling

      Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

      The Japanese mentality wouldn't let Nintendo buy Xbox because that would be admitting their product was not suitable and they made a mistake.

      To be honest I think the Wii U is going to have better sales figures this Christmas than people expect. A lot of parents are going to look at the PS4 and Xbox One see the prices and buy their kid a Wii U.

    2. Chika
      Trollface

      Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

      If you think the Wii U is a flop, have you seen the Wii Mini yet?

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

        "have you seen the Wii Mini yet?"

        Ah yes, there's a piece of work!

        "The Wii U doesn't have enough over the Wii to convince people to buy it. What shall we do?"

        "Uh, make a Wii that does even less?"

        "BRILLIANT! Bonuses all around!"

        Feh.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox

      That would be a good home.

      Microsoft are pretty crappy at making console. They are good however at brainwashing a nation of gamers into believing it's good thou.

  7. Al_21

    Google will miss you Bing

    Surely Google will rather Bing still be around - else the EU folk will be more of a pain banging on about competition.

  8. Aoyagi Aichou

    OT

    That reminds me, is an article summarizing Ballmer's reign planned? (Or has one been released here and I missed it?)

  9. Matt_payne666

    I'm no manager and don't really see the ins and outs of big business, but to me this slash and burn seems a little OTT considering the position Microsoft currently hold, they done 'need' the money...

    Yes there is some restructuring to be done and some streamlining, but binning off a product that generates a lot of publicity (XBOX) seems a bit drastic, office on ios? Good idea, but then that is the final nail in RT's coffin... office is the selling point for surface.

    Bing - hmmm.... yes I can see the point of binning that off, Microsoft will have Nokia maps to fall back on for mapping, so hopefully enhance that product...

    Pruning branches makes a tree grow bigger, but cut too many and the whole lot wild just die... I think Elop could take a more cautious route....

    1. Davidoff
      Holmes

      Microsoft will have Nokia maps to fall back on for mapping

      Only if they pay. Nokia's map section is excluded from the deal, as it is Nokia's remaining major cash cow. Once MS owns the cell phone part then they probably have to pay for Nokia Here, as they probably already do for Bing (Bing Maps is powered by Nokia map data).

      On the positive side, this means we might see Nokia's navigation software on non-WP devices like Android, iOS and BB10.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You already do...sort of

        Amazon's Kindle uses Nokia's mapping service.

  10. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

    I can't see Elop being the right man for the job

    At Nokia Elop wimped out. They had all these competing products and projects, and rather than sort out the mess and go with something they had, he dumped the lot and went Windows. A perfectly rational decision, in my opinion, despite the conspiracy theories. However, could a better CEO have been able to bang some management heads together, sort out the tangle, and make use of all that lovely R&D Nokia had so far wasted?

    The reason I say this, is that Microsoft seems to be in the same mess. There are all these different management fiefdoms, and upper management don't ever seem to settle the bun-fights between them. Rather they seem to sit back, and see who wins. Which is usually nobody. The only recent exception seems to be Sinofsky, who half-managed to get Metro through the bureaucracy, on many different devices, although it wasn't as merged as he said/planned.

    The difference is that MS still don't have the same level of competition on their main money-spinners, Windows and Office. Although it's getting there. Whereas Nokia were already deep in the doodoo when they called Elop in.

    MS need a visionary as well as a manager though. They need someone to cut through the middle-management mess, but they also need to decide what they are. Are they a boring business services company, with server tools, Office and Windows for corporate desktops, or are they a consumer company too?

    There's nothing wrong with cutting all the consumer stuff, accepting that 50% annual growth is no longer possible - and just sticking to the corporate market. They could just sit in that market, with 90% of deskops hoovering up the cash, and keeping the customers happy. Then, by all means, dump XBox, Bing and the like. On the other hand, there's been a lot of corporate cash spent on getting control of the TV, and computing into the living room. MS have done pretty damned well here, with the XBox, and if they lose the consumer PC market, but win the smart TV market, they could still be happy bunnies. Although the smart TV market is probably DOA, given how much nicer it is to control a tablet than a telly. But the XBox is a direct route to consumer computing nirvana, if you've got a credit card and you're hooked up to teh telly, then you're set to sell movies, and who knows what else. Seems a shame to throw it away...

    In conclusion, they should give the job to me.

    1. revdjenk

      Re: I can't see Elop being the right man for the job

      Elop, instead of taking Nokia onto more of the mobile stage by using as many of the available OSes as possible, ditched all and chose one, WP. Some say it is too early to judge the outcome, but it appears to have been so-so, at best.

      So now, he would heave Office onto each and every OS available?

      He is not being consistent.

      Unless, it is to be consistently MS focused, and the tech is already re-calibrating its view of that dinosaur.

  11. dazzzler

    Is it just me.....

    ...... I quite like Bing!

    1. Davidoff

      Re: Is it just me.....

      I like Bing, too. I really like the Bing picture of the day, and more and more often I find that Bing actually delivers better results than Google (which more and more seems to focus on finding me shops to buy something and not necessarily what I'm looking for).

      Would be a shame if it dies.

      1. Tom Mason

        Re: Is it just me.....

        I think Bing's biggest problem is the name. I can't hear it without thinking of Chander Bing, said in that horrid whiny Janice voice.

    2. Vociferous

      Re: Is it just me.....

      I use it for porn searches. Bing's much better at porn than Google.

  12. Frances Banana
    Thumb Down

    Hey Mr. Elop...

    ...how about getting yourself to Finland, standing in the main square and telling all the people that your CEO bonus was for the great work of bringing Nokia's value down to the toilet level?

    (explanation: if after that you become a CEO of Microsoft - then I am sorry - for me it looks like a "reward". A scenario like this is very common - bring value down, buy cheap, suddenly it makes PORFITZ!)

  13. Michael Habel

    What I don't understand is...

    Why doesn't Microsoft start their own Microsoft+ Service you can use your Microsoft account to log-into the what would only be the BIGGEST Social Network of all time by simply installing Windows.

    I mean look at how successful Google have forked up YouTube recently by tying all your Comments, and Votes to your very own Google+ Account! I do believe that MicroSoft IMHO have really missed a trick here!

    And, as to Office on Android or iOS? WHY?!?! When 2/3'rds of the Screen is overran by the OSD Keyboard would you want to use a Program like Office on a Tablet? WHY! I'd rather silt my Wrists first.

    As to ditching the XBOX Brand. As some other minds have chimed in. The Day of the "Unique" Console seems to be over. The PS4 and the XBONE contain more or less the same Hardware in them. At least as far as the ATI APU goes. Given that pretty much anyone can buy these "Chips" from AMD, granted they are slightly different! It should make things like the Ouya or say Valves Steam Box more easier & affordable to build, and then compete with both MicroSoft, and S0NY on their level. When you start to see it from this angle it kinda starts to make more sense.

    1. Davidoff

      Re: What I don't understand is...

      "Why doesn't Microsoft start their own Microsoft+ Service you can use your Microsoft account to log-into the what would only be the BIGGEST Social Network of all time by simply installing Windows."

      Probably because it already didn't work so well for Google who quite literally has to drag users by their feet to use Google+. Most people just hate G+.

    2. Davidoff

      Re: As to ditching the XBOX Brand

      "As some other minds have chimed in. The Day of the "Unique" Console seems to be over. The PS4 and the XBONE contain more or less the same Hardware in them. At least as far as the ATI APU goes. Given that pretty much anyone can buy these "Chips" from AMD, granted they are slightly different! It should make things like the Ouya or say Valves Steam Box more easier & affordable to build, and then compete with both MicroSoft, and S0NY on their level."

      The hardware is irrelevant, what counts is the software. Just because you can buy the AMD chipset doesn't make you able to compete with MS and Sony who already have the necessary infrastructure which the large game publishers want and which makes their consoles attractive to the masses.

      And Valve is a good example how irrelevant the hardware side is to be successful in this market.

      Ouya is more or less a crappy toy, it's cheap to manufacture but simply doesn't have the software titles to make it attractive outside a small fan niche, and certainly won't ever have it at a level enough to compete in the console market, and certainly not on a same level as MS and Sony.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Ouya is on a losing bet as well

        Ever since Vita TV was announced for similar money.

        Sony keep going by owning some good game studios

  14. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Business leadership for the 21st Century:

    Making things work is hard. Selling chunks of the business to achieve short-term profit is easy. Sell, baby, sell!

    FFS, near-on 30% market share for Bing, and XBox number 1 in the market, and he can't be arsed to try and make them profitable? The man's an idiot.

    GJC

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Business leadership for the 21st Century:

      To be fair, it's sometimes good management to get out of markets that you don't think are important to the company. Or areas you have no management experience of.

      Especially if there's someone out there who really wants to be in that market, because they think it would be a good fit with their business, in which case you may get a better price for selling that division than you could make in profit from running it.

      On t'other hand, MS are just buying a consumer devices company, with manufacturing and distribution, and all that jazz. So it would seem a shame to dump XBox, when you've just bought in some of the expertise to manage it - and when so many other companies are desperate to get space on that TV. Although I think the future of living room computing is here, and it ain't the telly, it's the phone and tablet. Smart TVs are so horrible to use, that people would prefer to sit on the sofa using a laptop...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft can't ignore a billion Android devices

    They need Android to survive, it's the new Windows.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Burning platform.

    in the case of Xbox, it literally is.

    I hear event the new one got so hot, they had to move the powersupply outside the box to a 2002 style power brick.

  17. Bob Terwilliger

    Burning Platforms Everywhere!

    This guy seems to go from disaster to disaster.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's Microsoft Always Done Best? Monopoly!

    So let's really hit this Office thing like we never hit it before!

    Err.. Right. Maybe. But that's old Microsoft, isn't it? Doing something that it certainly won with in the past, but times change, and isn't the whole point that MS should be changing?

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Madness

    It would be madness to port Office to Android.

    I remember thinking years ago, when java first came out, that Java would not conquer the desktop, but it would mean that people who didn't like MS could migrate their apps AWAY from Sun onto Linux. That's what happened and look what happened to Sun.

    If Office moves to Android, the only reason I and millions of others buy MS disappears. A particularly dumb business strategy. No wonder Nokia went down the proverbial.

  20. GrumpyMiddleAgedGuy

    It would be madness to port Office to Android.

    I remember thinking years ago, when java first came out, that Java would not conquer the desktop, but it would mean that people who didn't like MS could migrate their apps AWAY from Sun onto Linux. That's what happened and look what happened to Sun.

    If Office moves to Android, the only reason I and millions of others buy MS disappears. A particularly dumb business strategy. No wonder Nokia went down the proverbial.

  21. Mikel

    Oh great

    Now when Microsoft makes him the CEO they are going to have to block Monster.com and LinkedIn at the firewall.

  22. Will Godfrey Silver badge

    So, we have someone who thinks they can read Aesop's Fables Elop's fancy. I really don't think so. If Office went global it would result in a very quick death for Windows (no bad thing). Surely even the numptiest numpty could see that.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hope Bing stays around

    Not that I use it, but we certainly don't want to be handing Google any more of a monopoly than they already have in search!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I hope Bing stays around

      Google don't have a monopoly, they are just really good at things, and everyone else is shite.

      It would be pretty poor if the EU came along and knocked the legs out from under Google, just so Microsoft had a chance with their inferior shit, to create a similar (but crappier) monopoly.

      All these companies are trying to create monopolies, you have to choose, a good Google one, or a shit Microsoft one...

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