back to article Can you trust 'NSA-proof' TrueCrypt? Cough up some dough and find out

Security researchers are raising funds to conduct an independent audit of TrueCrypt, the popular disk encryption utility. TrueCrypt is widely used as a tool to strongly encrypt and decrypt entire drives, partitions or files in a virtual disk. It can also hide volumes of data and said to be easy to use. The source code for the …

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  1. Velv
    Childcatcher

    I'm in no way attempting to condone any agency spying on anyone else, but using TrueCrypt or any other encryption tool is about what you are really trying to protect yourself against. The casual or everyday loss.

    In reality you are millions of time more likely to have your laptop lost or stolen, and your data on it will potentially fall into the hands of multiple criminals. You shouldn't be making it easy for them to read your data. Disk encryption will beat most attackers, and they are never going to put the resources into cracking your disk on the off chance your data is "interesting" to them.

    If you REALLY have something to hide from the NSA et al, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. You DO have a right to privacy, and that should be taken seriously, but you absolutely need to get into perspective what the real threats against you are.

    1. zooooooom

      "If you REALLY have something to hide from the NSA et al, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

      That joint, hooker, tax dodge, transference of speeding ticket to spouse, or particularly distasteful porn - yes the one with the horse - probably isn't that much interest to the spooks - it would look really bad on them if they started sending that shit to the fuzz. OTOH, it might come in useful later so lets not be too hasty to delete it.

      The reason this kind of thing is scary, is that if "The Government" knows more about you, than you know about them, your ability - everyone's ability - to enact democratic process is reduced - the material they have on file about you suddenly becomes useful for political reasons.

      1. bitrat

        My thoughts exactly.....LOL the cartoon image I keep getting in my head though, is the NSA watching the Chinese watching the Koreans watching the Malaysians watching the Australians, etc etc....no wonder they need those gigantic server farms ;*p

    2. Ant Evans

      Legit

      Roughtly a quarter of the world's population live in police states where being in possession of the wrong ideas can get you killed, or, if you're lucky, make you wish you were dead.

      So, no.

      1. bitrat

        Re: Legit

        Yes....and in most of those places, people can't discuss these issues internationally as we are now.....hopefully that will change.....

        Point well taken - that's what Tor is for, I suppose....include whistleblowers in your list.....what if someone wants to report corruption, but they don't want to give up their freedom, possibly their lives like Ed Snowden or Anabel Hernandez?

    3. Adam Inistrator

      "If you REALLY have something to hide from the NSA et al, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. You DO have a right to privacy, and that should be taken seriously, but you absolutely need to get into perspective what the real threats against you are."

      True, the average man has no need of protection against NSA/GCQ but whistlenblowers DO need it. For example we have the apparent suicide of a government employee in UK over leakage of damaging information about our governments involvement in Iraq. OUR SOCIETY DOES NEED PRIVACY!

      1. bitrat

        Agree 100%

  2. spot

    Can we please not call it an extra 64K block of data, it's padding to the next 64K boundary.

    An encrypted block of zeros will be can be verified to be zeros by the key owner and it carries no information despite being pseudo-random in appearance. Finding out whether the Windows version incorporates information there will only come from disassembling the compiled code, just looking at the source is irrelevant.

    1. Caesarius
      Alert

      So we know the plaintext?

      I thought known plaintext attacks were considerably easier than unknown. Doesn't that actually make the Linux version less secure? And while the Windows version doesn't suffer the known plaintext vulnerability, the "random" plaintext is not yet verified. So we're not happy either way yet.

  3. Shakes

    Extra bytes in binary

    Could the extra bytes perhaps be a signature?

    From the Truecrypt FAQ:

    As TrueCrypt is open-source software, independent researchers can verify that the source code does not contain any security flaw or secret 'backdoor'. Can they also verify that the official executable files were built from the published source code and contain no additional code?

    Yes, they can. In addition to reviewing the source code, independent researchers can compile the source code and compare the resulting executable files with the official ones. They may find some differences (for example, timestamps or embedded digital signatures) but they can analyze the differences and verify that they do not form malicious code.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Extra bytes in binary

      I think this is part of the problem though isn't it? When independent researchers DO compile the code they are unable to produce the same binaries that TC are offering for download on their websites (and not just differences in timestamps).

      So the question is, what's causing the differences in the binaries? Extra code? Differences in compilers? If indeed TC are injecting something extra into their own built binaries, what's it doing? That's what's causing many eyebrows to be raised.

      I believe TOR shows how this can be done - they give you the source & compiler specs and let you build it yourself to compare against the binaries they ship.

  4. Joe Harrison

    If you don't like it, overwrite it

    If you don't like the mysterious 64K then just overwrite it with a chunk of mp3. Either Truecrypt will stop working or it won't, which should tell you something in itself.

    1. Moonshine

      Re: If you don't like it, overwrite it

      Agreed. This is a very good first step which is relatively simple. It doesn't conclusively prove anything but if TC keeps working then it raises suspicion a little higher.

    2. bitrat

      Re: If you don't like it, overwrite it

      Here's a question for you encryption buffs - what about multilayer encryption....eg using gpg4win or some other PGP - type encryption to encrypt data, then putting that file into truecrypt......is it just the same problem of possible back doors, or would that help?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe the EFF would like to chip in?

  6. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

    > why an audit of TrueCrypt is needed and arguably even overdue

    And as soon as the developers come up with a new version, the auditing needs to be all over again.

    However, what's worse is if someone brings out a TrueCrypt virus. One that only attacks that particular program and inserts a backdoor into installed copies (or some other binary it depends on). You can have audited source - but that's no use if the environment the program is running on is insecure and is therefore open to having the binary attacked, post-audit.

    The only audit that a user could trust would be of an entire system: O/S, applications+libraries and TrueCrypt. Then as soon as any of those are changed, upgraded or patched, the whole audit becomes invalidated. Oh, and as for proprietary binary-only drivers, codecs or libraries: don't even think about installing them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

      This is what diff and checksums were invented for.

    2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

      "with a new version, the auditing needs to be all over again"

      That is why you have an automated process, one where the agreed compilers and build environment are used and you can check that the binary coming out of the audit system matches the download version for a given code release.

      Then your review of the source code changes is a meaningful activity.

      But until the code has been independently audited by cryptographic experts (ideally not from the USA, etc, where there is a justifiable suspicion of court-ordered tampering) it is hard to trust the system, even as compiled from source, not to have either a foolish or deliberate flaw that makes the security much less than the password.

      "a TrueCrypt virus. One that only attacks that particular program and inserts a backdoor into installed copies"

      Really, you don't think that a simple key logger to grab the password would be easier and more deniable? If your machine has been compromised, even by a user-space program for your account, then ANYTHING you do from then onwards is, by definition, insecure.

      1. bitrat

        Re: Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

        Hmmmm....so true.....is there any way (I mean a really dependable way) to detect keyloggers? For all I know, they come guilt into windows 8, etc ;*p

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TrueCrypt is good

    But no on it's own. The unthinking masses will go "Oh, but plausible deniability!" Yeah well, that's for nowt when the OS grasses you up.

    Imagine you mount your "hidden" volume to drive E: and open some file in Word or Paint or whatever. "E:\Secret\Codename-Razorbill.txt"

    Close it, unmount the hidden volume.

    Well done, the presence of that file is now obvious to anyone who gets hold of your computer (or has a virus/trojan running on it) and has a shufty your "most recently used" list. To either the bad guys find out (electrodes to the scrotum) or the cops do (you go to jail under RIPA).

    This is just one example of how a single tool simply isn't enough.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: TrueCrypt is good

      AC : I dont use it, but I understand that it allows you to encrypt an entire OS in a partition. So the OS itself cant grass you up unless it can itself be unencryped and started.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: TrueCrypt is good

      The point is that you can have an unlimited number of encrypted volumes within encrypted volumes with no way of proving that they are there.

      Of course that plausible deniability is only useful in countries with legal systems - not those that will simply bundle you onto a plane to boratistan anyway,

    3. bitrat

      Re: TrueCrypt is good

      Hmmmm...that was kinda my thought too - but "I know nothing, nothing" as a sargeant Shultz said....what other tools are you suggesting?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Surely it depends on

    who you are concerned about looking at your data?

    A. random hackers / scumbags who steal your kit

    B. Governments

    If it is A then you are probably ok (assuming your passwords / passfile is not on the same box);

    if it is B then it is safe to assume you are not.

    If you are worried about B you need to keep your stuff isolated from ALL networks.

    Would be nice to know that there were no backdoors but seriously doubt that most peoples home equipment is looked at by governments when the traffic they generate is so easy for them to slurp.

    1. bitrat

      Re: Surely it depends on

      Agreed......and it means no cell phones, no computers or electronics of any kind when such matter are discussed. My brother was in the USN & he once showed me one of their "quiet rooms" - Faraday cages, encrypted locks, bug detectors built in, etc - They'd go into that room and lock the door to discuss REALLY classified stuff - it had an odd feel to it - of course it looked like a holding cell in a federal prison....without the window!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't care about being anonymous, I'm just too lazy to create a login ;*p Hey! They MADE me create one....so much for anonymity.

    Personally, never assumed truecrypt would withstand world class decryption - I use it for routine stuff - business records that contain private data on clients, the sort of stuff that if your laptop is stolen you don't want available to anyone. Yes, I use a bios pwd and a disk pwd, but it's information on OTHER people, not me, so it's my responsibility to try to keep it safe. Obviously, if a security agency of a large government is interested in me or any one else, they're gonna find out all that stuff anyway!

    Let's see - what WOULD be the security data that would interest them?

    -

    If you were encrypting data from organized crime

    -if you were encrypting child pornography

    -If you were encrypting evidence from felonies you were or had committed

    -if you were using it for espionage

    LOL - well, I don't have to worry on those accounts, that's for sure! I guess it all goes back to the "who watches the watchers" concept. I believe some reciprocity should be possible: No, I don't wanna know what the nuclear launch codes are! ;*p , But , there should be some kind of civilian audit organization that is at least allowed to oversee the basic practices of the NSA & CIA, like there are for police departments in many places. I know, that's the Congress' job....but they're too close to the problem and are easily swayed by purported "threats to national security".

    Watched a movie last night about the nuclear program called "Building Bombs" which really showed how well meaning, basically really good people get caught up in regrettable enterprises....I know a couple people that, let's just say they have VERY high security clearances, and they're fun folks - smart, humorous, creative people. If it was just people like them running the NSA, I'd be like, "sure dude, here's all my passwords", ha ha ha ha! The problem is, there's always a few psychopaths that are attracted to positions of power and let's face it (eg in the military & the CIA) people who get a kick out of killing people and all sorts of other mean and nasty things as the song goes....Those people can inflict a lot of damage! So watchdogs please, NSA & CIA people: Most of us understand the need for some kind of security organization to, eg, look for the missing plutonium "pits" stolen (or sold) from Russian or other crumbled nuclear states.....but a little more openness wouldn't hurt..

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