back to article BlackBerry BLOODBATH! Company warns of nearly $1bn quarterly loss

BlackBerry surprised Wall Street by releasing its second quarter earnings early on Friday, but it was hardly the kind of surprise where a dancer jumps out of a cake. The Canadian smartphone maker warned the market that it expects to post revenues of around $1.6bn when it files its formal earnings report on September 27 – a …

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Blackberry don't deserve to be in the market...

      "If Blackberry had gone Android (as a medium term project) at least, maybe they'd of saved themselves."

      Using such a fundamentally insecure OS as Android would only have annihilated their corporate business even faster....

    2. Electric Panda

      Re: Blackberry don't deserve to be in the market...

      "- Phone app was buggy (couldn't return to home if the screen locked mid-call)"

      "- Account settings (like e-mail etc) would forget the password frequently"

      So that's two fundamental features which are basically a bit pants. Doesn't bode well for everything else.

    3. John Sanders

      Re: Blackberry don't deserve to be in the market...

      RIM and Nokia had a very distinctive advantage over Samsung and the rest, they had interesting hardware propositions like high-resolution cameras, good hardware design and very good qwerty keyboards.

      They could have gone Android, port their software layers and they will still be players in the market.

      It's the software stupid companies!!!! It is and it will always be! The wife wants to play the same game aunt Margaret is playing and her sister Susan wants to share pictures with them both via whatever chat app is in fashion.

      Once an OS gains a sufficiently big market foothold and develops a sizeable software ecosystem around a more or less open platform, the game is over.

      RIM and Nokia should have gone Android and they will be still enjoying their piece of the market, true they will probably not be as big as Samsung/Apple, but that is not the point.

  1. rcorrect
    Pirate

    How the analysts managed to miss the mark by such a wide margin isn't clear.

    In related news, analysts involved in this blunder had their salaries cut in half this quarter. This is because Wall Street has high standards and holds analysts accountable for mistakes.

  2. justincormack

    buyer

    Microsoft can't buy them now, antitrust reasons, nor can Google, Samsung or Apple. Dell now has too much debt, and HP is scared off mobile now. A smaller buyer might turn up, eg Lenovo or Hauwei or someone I suppose. The patents could be split off.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: buyer

      "Microsoft can't buy them now, antitrust reasons"

      The last Kantar figures I saw gave Blackberry 0.7% (versus 5.6% for Windows Phone) for US sales, so I doubt that antitrust would come into it Blackberry don't have a significant market share...

    2. Don Jefe
      Pint

      Re: buyer

      I believe this is a situation where Canadian leverage might outweigh Justice Department inclinations. Every single part of anti-trust law is subject to be situationally overridden by the US President; and for Canada to be open to a buyout by MS seems reasonable. A buyout soon could result in some (small) benefit for Canada and Canadians.

      Canada has a lot of power in relation to US trade, if they want this the US won't stop it I think. They got Smart (autos) into the country over very loud objections from the entire US auto industry, the insurance industry and the oil industry. Three groups, each far more significant than the mobile phone industry, were pushed aside because Canada said so. Should MS decide to buy Blackberry, I don't see it being a problem.

  3. Real Ale is Best

    If I were Google...

    I'd make an offer to Blackberry to licence every patent they possess. They could probably get a pretty good deal, and it would protect them from an ambush without all the anti-trust wrangling.

  4. RobHib
    Unhappy

    Oh for the days.

    Oh for the days when the likes of Tektronix and Hewlett Packard made excellent and well-respected equipment which would remain current in the catalog for a decade or more.

    Seems that nowadays in tech, marketing wins out over engineering every time.

    Shame really.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Totally Rimmed

    Blackberry on the slippery slope to Redberry.

    In an era where old tech is a week or month old and the vain have to have the new, this doesn't surprise me.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is going to hurt

    In the UK the data tariff for business with global roaming is horrendous (at least with O2 it is).

    I put off renewing the Blackberries because I could see something coming and the other smartphone options would open us to stupid large bills when engineers travel.

    So now I find we are looking at a smartphone, doesn't really matter which OS flavour, for the purposes of billing we will go from an all you can eat sub £50pm on the Blackberry compressed and encrypted mail to (probably) email bloat AKA Outlook and all the other fun shite that can be installed on smartphones.

    A senior manager said to me "you can install far more apps on a smartphone" like that was a good business IT reason for going that way, bit like saying "you might get an infection" as a recommendation of a prospective partner.

    Now if Samsung bought them or the patents, decent build, not MS or Google taint...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is going to hurt

      "email bloat AKA Outlook"

      Exchange ActiveSync / Outlook is one of the most data efficient options for remote email. If you are having issues, check that someone hasn't disabled data compression:

      http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd577060(v=exchg.80).aspx

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This is going to hurt

        @AC 21:11

        I see you conveniently missed the point where the higher compression canes the battery. I'll look into it and ask corporate IT what compression level it currently set to.

        The few Z10's using active sync are running up higher bills and get less battery life already so not sure which to aim for.

        Thanks for the pointer though.

    2. Metrognome

      Re: This is going to hurt

      "A senior manager said to me "you can install far more apps on a smartphone" like that was a good business IT reason for going that way".

      Well, old boy, that was half the reason for Blackberry's demise. The multilock, utterly throttled handsets may give IT admins a hard-on but gave nothing but frustration to the users. I still remember bluetooth issues, lack of tethering etc etc.

      Couple this with devices that would struggle and crash attempting to display a Web page and then the writing is on the wall in bold 72pt arial.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This is going to hurt

        Blackberry 9790s here. They are comfortably the worst handsets I have ever encountered. Cheap feeling, plastic, buggy and fragile, with a small screen and battery life that seems to vary wildly from handset to handset. IT didn't pick 'em but now we have them everybody who has one in the organisation hates them with a passion.

        Given that RIM (as they were then) was already on a blindingly obvious death spiral when we renewed, the decision mystified me - not least given that we moved from 8520s - comfortably the second worst handsets I have ever encountered. There was a time, before about 2006 that Blackberry made decent handsets (combined with BES) that essentially made them the only game in town for corporate handsets. Those days are long gone.

  7. Spiny_Norman
    Unhappy

    Shame

    I've had 3 work issued BlackBerries - all basic models latest is a 9320 BBOS07 and I'm really happy with it. I guess the issue is what you need your smartphone to do - my company issues BBs purely for the push email facility. There are a few extras like a corporate IM client & VOIP/WIFI bolt ons but very little else - sure it has internet & GPS etc but the point of them is that they sync with our corporate email & handle our S/MIME secure email which all 3 models do really well. Not bad as a phone as well. I have been very nearly able to do a full day's work on the BB. I've not seen anything else that is as good as BB as a corporate comms tool. A shame it looks like they are going down the tubes.

    1. AndyMulhearn

      Re: Shame

      +1.

      I've been using a Q5 for a week now and I'm wondering why all the negative press. The OS is stable and responsive. Messaging is better than the old Torch I used before the upgrade. Battery life is more than good enough. Apps? Shmapps, it's a phone not a games console. And it's costing me £3 per week for 24 weeks, so a total of £72.

      OK, so a BB should have a trackpad and it's taking me a while to get used to it not having one but I'm getting there but aside from that, I'm really struggling to see why people don't like BB10 and the phones.

      1. Don Jefe

        Re: Shame

        Note your comment: "a BB should have a trackpad". What you've said underlies a lot of the reasons for the press opinions. I used a Blackberry since 2002 until earlier this year; in 11 years the most significant changes were moving to a color display, the addition of the central trackball and transition to a trackpad. Everything else was incremental and nothing outside of what you'd expect over the course of a decade of product evolution.

        What a Blackberry is, is so fixed in people's minds that changing it upsets the user base. Like taking away the Start button in Windows: That would just be crazy! Had they continuously changed the devices they could have slowly evolved to meet the advancing expectations of their customers. But they never did. It was the same basic phone for over a decade, the same decade that made mobile streaming of feature films a normal thing, interfacing with home entertainment devices the 'new' remote control and decent cameras the default on every phone.

        Most wouldn't have even really minded if Blackberry was a little slow rolling out new features. The core business customer is used to things like that taking a little longer with most products, as it is usually accompanied by increased stability and reliability over consumer products. But they never rolled them out. They kept the same thing so long it became impossible to do anything but ride that horse right over the cliff. Changing after so long would only pull the rug out from under them, and that's exactly what happened.

        They probably could have done better financially to just toss in a really nice complete accessory package and keep the same phones, instead of spending big money on developing something completely new. Now they've got no customers (effectively).

        In February of this year my 17th Blackberry died (work kills most of my phones, I just lose the rest :) People, my staff and wife included, laughed so hard at me for declaring I was going to buy another Blackberry that I was shamed into trying something else (that's a big deal because I'm nearly impossible to shame). I went with an iPhone, which I like, I wish I had done it years ago. I'm sure a Samsung or Windows Phone would have met my needs just as well. Hell, from what I can tell a nameless phone from the weird street vendor in DC would have been more feature laden than my beloved, but not so smart, Blackberry smartphone. Holy shit that's a long post. I should probably stop now. Yes. You should. You've bored everyone to death and you've got to get up early tomorrow.

  8. ratfox
    Unhappy

    Feeling sorry for them

    Have felt that way for about three years now

  9. Fihart

    The last new Blackberry customer ?

    Given a boxfresh Blackberry by a friend, what's not to like?

    Tank-like construction, but the previous two 9800's my friend had packed up within contract. By the time EE replaced the latest, she had a new iPhone.The 9800 is a remarkable hybrid -- touchscreen and slider. Sadly, neither keyboard works well with my adult male fingers.

    Initially, my friend and myself (LG and Nokia users) were puzzled by the small slot for entering messages. Larger grey area on screen above looks like where you'd text on any other phone. For 4 hours after inserting my SIM and paying for a data plan I was without data -- seemingly until I got a message from Blackberry confirming that my phone was registered. What's that all about? I don't wish to use so-called Blackberry Internet Service, I'm paying EE.

    BB manual refers to wireless but means wireless telephony, not wifi. Confusion extends to the fact that actual wifi doesn't work unless mobile data is switched on. Oh, and BB maps don't work unless you have data plan. Nokia's excellent maps worked (slowly) on GPS alone -- which better when lost in wilderness ?

    I want Google maps. BB app store wants money for a BB version. While Google site displays no sign of BB support, download app anyway as it's free -- and it works. Then I want the My EE app for tracking usage -- downloading via phone from BB store they say that (fake) email address I've given for BB ID will henceforth be my email address. No, I may want to add push email later.

    Instead, download My EE via BB suite on a PC. But BB installs a new version of the ID software and a new desktop suite. When it finishes after about 15 minutes this permits me to download My EE. However, install rebooted the phone twice (3.5 minutes x2). I think I'll stay away from BB sites if poss.

    How is the phone to use, aside from mad keyboard ? Actually, not bad -- setup screens are fairly logical (compared to Nokia) and comprehensive. Frequent reminders that inbuilt memory is full -- clearly too small for a system where stuff remain resident when you think you've finished with it. Touchscreen is overcrowded with duplicate icons. As a phone -- well my friend sometimes sounded like she was calling from under water when using the BB. I suspect noise cancelling isn't good. Battery is also too small -- normal user would charge every day. With similar use Nokia E71 with 3 year old battery lasted 2 to 3 days.

    Now BB wants to sell a phone for £600. And I'm lukewarm about one that was free ?

  10. Hoe

    LOL, And they said nobody could see this coming?

    Must be blind too at BB!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    google apps for business

    Anyone who said bb had the best push email service is crazy, i know many organisations who transitioned to google apps for business, gmail, doc, drive, shared calendar, etc is easily on par with bb offering and was less of a headache to deploy and works cross platform. What bb did wrong was not allowing other platforms service access to services like bb messenger and other platforms earlier on. Fighting to keep bbos alive instead of getting in bed with google and going android and transitioning into being a handset hardware manufacturer and service provider. Instead they wanted to hold onto everything when the boat had already started to sink. its really the bad management that sunk the bb ship, their products and offerings were never that bad, ok they were never great either, but shortightedness and holding onto a vision/method when the ecosystem / landscape that had changed to much. Nokia made pretty much the same mistakes with holding onto an os that was already dead in the water for to long... just look what happened there.

  12. Zack Mollusc

    survived longer than i expected

    I had a Blackberry Something in 2008, it was a dismal experience as it could not deal with many file types, had a low resolution screen, crappy browser etc. The only good part was the trackball, which was soon removed on the next generation of Blackberry. I am amazed that they have lasted this long.

  13. Frank N. Stein

    Sales and marketing is only of real value if you're selling something that people are buying. It's still possible that other platform owners may be interested in hiring these people, particularly those that seek to gain ground in the enterprise mobile device management market.

  14. herman

    No security

    What this saga shows me, is that most users only used BB because of their previously much vaunted security. As soon as they caved in to governments the world over and made their servers open, the users left in droves and BB collapsed. Security matters more to ordinary users than most IT geeks tend to think.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Couldn't find a BB anywhere

    I'm in Toronto area this half year and when my old BB broke I was looking for a new phone but noone tried very hard to sell one to me! Blackberry can't be interested in selling at all if there's a customer looking for a phone who doesn't see a compelling message to buy their product.

    Also, the launch early in the year was a debacle. If you don't have phones to sell in the stores then wait until you do before launch.

  16. Arcsur
    Trollface

    Circling the Rim....

    Title says it all. Pity El Reg seems to have missed the opportunity in the subtitle.

  17. Muskiier

    Too bad about the current losses. Love my Z10.

    I spend all week working with users and their Android, Apple, and Blackberry phones and devices. I really don't see any dramatic advantage from one to the next. And, I've personally used every phone platform from Palm to Windows to Android (I've never owned an Apple product) and Blackberry 10 has been solid and simple to set up and use. The current phone marketplace is mostly the result of marketing, and timing. It's true that Blackberry missed the tide/current/boat when the smartphone market really started to grow. Nevertheless, their current product is solid, stable, well-designed, easy, efficient, and fun to use. If I had to bet, I would say that Blackberry will be around for the long-term. After all, a small slice of a huge smartphone market still means very significant revenues.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Blackberry's death knell was after the riots.

    Chav: Nah, Five-O can't see my messages, cus Im on Blackberry, init.

    one court order later.

    Chav: Whacha mean I am getting sent down, it was only some kickin trainers man (sound of that weird tutting noise). Insurance will pay the shop.

  19. Katie Saucey
    Unhappy

    RIM, Canadian tech giant destroyed by management, Nortel 2.0.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    FiPS 140-1 list

    For the adults in the forum, the list is here: http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/STM/cmvp/documents/140-1/1401vend.htm

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