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back to article Snowden journo's boyfriend 'had crypto key for thumb-drive files written down' - cops

Journalists and their associates involved in the Edward Snowden NSA leaks affair followed almost unbelievably poor security practices while handling top-secret government files, according to a statement made in court by a British official today. The hearing was looking into the case of David Miranda, the partner of journalist …

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          1. RobHib
            Reply Icon

            @Matt Bryant - Re: Re Andy Mc @Thomas 4 -- Does it actually matter?

            Correct, but there have been many martyrs throughout history.

            The fact remains that the security services are still left without the key. Even torture won't help them (expect to make them feel better of course).

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            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
              Reply Icon
              WTF?

              Re: RobHib Re: @Matt Bryant - Re Andy Mc @Thomas 4 -- Does it actually matter?

              "....there have been many martyrs throughout history....." Que? If you seriously believe Greenwald and co have any interest in martyrdom then I have some prime Florida river-side real estate to sell you! Greenwald's motivations are a lot more basic and monetary.

              ".....The fact remains that the security services are still left without the key....." So what? The prime aim is to stop the transfer of secret docs, so locking up all the people involved goes a long way towards that. It's also a powerful disincentive to others. You are forgetting that the NSA and GCHQ already know what's in the docs since they are their docs, what they want is to track down and arrest the people involved in stealing and distributing said docs. Tracking coms between them tells them all they need to know (conspirators' identities) without the need to decrypt docs. Once they then arrest (or stop under Schedule 7) a conspirator they can root through hiis or her data at their leisure. The ability to decrypt even a little of the docs for court evidence is a bonus, otherwise the authorities will settle for sending them to prison for several years at a time in repeat cycles until they do give up any keys. I bet the FBI are quite jealous of the UK police powers.

              ".....Even torture won't help them (expect to make them feel better of course)." Why do they need to torture anyone? It's kinda hard to be "an international journalist/film-maker/toyboy, tirelessly fighting the fight for the right" when you're locked up at HMG's pleasure.

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  2. Tom7

    Honestly? How hard is this?

    1. Generate public-private key pair.

    2. Write down the public key and take it to Germany. Or put it on a web site. Whatever.

    3. Encrypt the data using the public key.

    4. Transfer the data to the thumb drive.

    5. Carry the thumb drive back to Brazil.

    6. Get held at Heathrow but don't disclose the decryption key because YOU DON'T HAVE IT.

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    1. chris lively
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      Re: Honestly? How hard is this?

      I had a similar thought. Sending both the encrypted files along the same route as the decryption key was a bad choice.

      It would have been trivial to use the regular postal mail to send the thumb drive to the guardian. It would have also be trivial to send the decryption key that way. Neither of which would have been jacked with.

      OR you could have sent 2 reporters in. One to get the decryption key and another to get the drive.

      The reporters on this are showing that they still have no clue what security is.

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      1. Adam 1
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        Coat

        Re: Honestly? How hard is this?

        From what I understand, UK has laws that give you a choice between jail and handing over the password. All of these fancy measures of not carrying the private key or sending the key and data with different reporters doesn't get around this.

        The reporters may well not understand security, or maybe the revealed password was just the decoy volume of a hidden truecrypt operating system (see http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/hidden-volume). The mule need not even have known about this; one or two believable files in the outer volume that would explain the need for its encryption.

        ... and this way they get to post about the day their office got trashed.

        Mine's the one with the mobile phone that definitely doesn't have a micro SD card inside it where these files could have been hidden had they not wanted this trouble.

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        1. Anonymous Coward
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          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Honestly? How hard is this?

          @Adam 1 - Do you really think that the police wouldn't look in a mobile phone when they were looking for data? This is akin to the people who think that they can hide stuff under the floorboards and the coppers will never find it "cuz there all stoopid".

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    2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
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      Re: Honestly? How hard is this?

      It does beg the question; ignorance, naivety, stupidity, or deliberately planned?

      No matter which it seems we now know a lot about how the authorities consider those documents which we would not know had Miranda been carrying nothing.

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      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
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        Holmes

        Re: Honestly? How hard is this?

        > 5. Carry the thumb drive back to Brazil.

        "You may want to take one of those modern train coaches, my good friend. I heard the horse-drawn carriages are increasingly being controlled by political police."

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  3. Pierson
    WTF?

    No one can be that incompetent, surely?

    I'd love to believe that this is just HMG trying to do a snowjob(*) on Miranda, Rushbridger et al, or that the journo's are working a sophisticated sting against the spooks; but, to be honest, it really does seem that the Graun and its fellow travellers are a bunch of incompetent innocents who aren't fit to be allowed near an abacus, let alone a sensitive computer system.

    These documents would probably have been a lot more secure if Rushbridger and his crew had simply communicated with each other, carefully, via PGP/GPG encrypted emails.

    It reminds me of that sniffy comment by Gandalf in LOTR about his exaggerated fear of Sauron vs. his overoptimistic faith in the Innkeeper Butterbur...

    (*) well, they are anyway, but I simply can't stack up the comments by the Graun, Miranda and others and still assume that they are in any way competent.

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  4. ed2020

    Eh?

    So they were taking many flights because they were concerned about the NSA and GCHQ eavesdropping on electronic communications. Presumably this means they were concerned the NSA could decrypt electronic communications so the point of encrypting the thumb drive was what...?

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    1. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh?

      To be generous to them: They could have encrypted the drive because they didn't want joe public to come across the information and let it leak onto the internet that way. That said, even if they believed the security services could decrypt the data, surely they were under the impression that the security services knew they had it anyway. More to this, even if they were just trying to keep Joe public away from the unredacted data - Why did they write down the key and sent it on the same flight? I'm not sure I understand any of the reasoning in this piss-poor example of IT security.

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    2. Don Jefe
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      Re: Eh?

      Taking many flights to escape GCHQ but transferring at Heathrow? That's not how I would have done it...

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  5. GreyWolf
    Holmes

    Where do you hide a book?

    ...in a library...

    1. I want to get a copy of secret files out of UK reach

    2. I make up up a shiney-shiney, a distraction, a bauble to attract the eye of spooks

    3. I "hide" the real files among the shiney-shiney (encrypted differently).

    4. I let it fall into the hands of GCHQ/NSA

    5. Spooks are satisfied, but they don't know that the real thing has passed them by.

    If you are going to Brazil from Germany, there are surely direct flights - if not, you go via Schiphol, not Heathrow. The only reason to go via Heathrow is to wave the shiney-shiney under the noses of the spooks.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Where do you hide a book?

      If you're going to be that cunning, you'd not have the encryption key written down on a piece of paper, because that's just blindingly obvious isn't it? You'd make them work for it a bit.

      No, I'm going to fall on the side of the fence marked "incompetent".

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    2. DrXym
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      Re: Where do you hide a book?

      The classic example of this is the Cullinan diamond. A big fanfair was made of it being transported by ship from South Africa to England. It was to be locked in the captain's safe and under constant guard for its entire journey. The safe only contained a fake and was a diversion - the real diamond had been sent as registered post with the rest of the mail.

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    3. knarf
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      Re: Where do you hide a book?

      Eh.. No.... its sad say but people really that stupid. How else do you explain X-Factor!

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    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Where do you hide a book?

      You're not thinking like a journalist thinks.

      They'll fly Heathrow cos they always fly Heathrow or because they have a regular flyer bonus or are collecting air miles.

      They don't think like a character from a thriller normally, though one or two have written thrillers.

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    5. Brian Miller
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      Re: Where do you hide a book?

      Why bother doing that? You could have a 128Gb drive full of stupid vacation photos, encrypt the files, and then use a steganography utility to hide the files in the vacation pics. Plod grabs device, looks, and only sees stupid vacation snaps. Lo and behold, plod is satisfied. You want their attention? Have a bunch of obviously encrypted files.

      But yeah, we are talking about journalists here who might as well have not bothered with encryption at all. Usually it's hard enough to get them to get the facts straight, let alone follow any reasonable protocol for handling data.

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    6. Chris 244
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: Direct Flights

      LH 500

      Took me longer to post this comment than it did to find a direct flight from Frankfurt to Rio.

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  6. Anomalous Cowshed

    Police confiscated disks and other items capable of holding data:

    A notebook.

    A few loose pieces of paper.

    Two palms of a hand.

    One potentially tattooed skin.

    A brain.

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  8. Frankee Llonnygog

    The Gov's slagging the Guardian for poor security

    Had the Guardian's security been top notch, I doubt the Gov would have congratulated them.

    This is rather like telling off a pickpocket for keeping your wallet in the back pocket of his jeans.

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So let me sum this up

    UK gov't uses their powers to access this guy's encrypted data and then complains that the encrypted data was accessed. Uhh, so whose fault is that?

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  10. Wang N Staines
    Facepalm

    LOL.

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  11. CABVolunteer
    WTF?

    Look more closely at what the government's submission said

    To expand on what this government representative actually claimed in his submission, quoted in the BBC news item:

    "[a] piece of paper containing basic instructions for accessing some data, together with a piece of paper that included the password for decrypting one of the encrypted files on the external hard drive".

    ONE of the files?

    Could it be that the file which Miranda had instructions on how to open contained contact information for a lawyer to assist if detained or even Rusbridger's phone number?

    The government stooge also said that "many of the files were encrypted". So what was so damaging in the unencrypted files that their contents haven't been leaked by the government? His shopping list perhaps?

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  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "poor security practices"

    Who cares? The "secrets" weren't secret any longer.

    The only point of security regarding this now-not-secret information might be its commercial value as news material to The Guardian and/or the involved journalists, and what they do or don't do to protect that is entirely up to them.

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  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Someone has been duped

    He is transiting through the UK with stuff and he knows that under RIPA he will go to jail if he doesnt give up the passwords so he brings a handy one with him to decrypt something.

    Included in that data was the information that magically made its way to the independent newspaper.

    Set a trap to catch a rat and it worked very well.

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    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Holmes

      Re: Someone has been duped

      I say, my good fellow.

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  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Homophobia

    Can you please stop referring to David Miranda as "Snowden Journo's Boyfriend" in your headlines.

    It says more about The Register and the people who write for it than the content of the story that appears below. them.

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    1. gazthejourno (Written by Reg staff)
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      Re: Homophobia

      Noted - we'll stop calling him a journalist.

      Homophobia? For pointing out a simple relationship which both parties have acknowledged? Jog on, matey.

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  15. davefb

    So , why does the UK feel that NSA documents have anything to do with them anyway, surely they didn't look at them then told the NSA they'd been destroyed?

    Let alone the fact repeating these comments just goes to show they even admit they didn't have any concerns about Miranda being a terrorist, so should have used the correct laws.

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  16. John Doe 6
    FAIL

    It really doesn't matter...

    ...does it ?

    Those "secrets" were no longer secrets, because mr. Snowden intended to make them public when he copied them at NSA...

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  17. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Miranda rights

    Or in this case "Miranda wrong"

    (Doh!!)

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  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Where's the micro SD Card?

    Thumbdrives? Yeah those are sure to go unnoticed<snark>.

    From day one of the Miranda drama, my question has been: where were the MicroSD card(s) hidden? Even a quick scan of TrueCrypt's own doc on plausible deniability reads like a script that Miranda executed fairly well.

    Did the spooks strip his luggage down to the metal frame to discover the aluminum foil wrapped MicroSD card(s) that the xray scanner missed?

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  20. jonfr

    Cat photos

    So the UK cops got access to 58.000 cat photos and refuse to acknowledge it. No surprise there.

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  21. C. P. Cosgrove

    Ummm . . .

    "Metropolitan Police Service Counter Terrorism Command is now carrying out a criminal investigation, which is at an early stage."

    Fascinating. Against whom might they be preparing this (possible) case ? Against the heads of NSA and GCHQ for crininal negligence ? For breaches of the Official Secrets Acts ? For aiding and comforting terrorists ?

    Or are they working on behalf of Data Protection Commissioner, preparing a case under the Data Protection Laws ?

    Chris Cosgrove

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ummm . . .

      If you're found with stolen goods, it doesn't matter how you got them, you'll be prosecuted not the person they are stolen from.

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  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    fwiw Greenwald says Miranda was not carrying a password which allowed access to the "documents"

    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/373451644794449922

    so the claim that he was carrying "some 58,000 highly classified UK intelligence documents" would appear to be speculation at best

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    1. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Are you actually citing what someone said on Twitter as evidence?

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  23. HippyFreetard

    And Snowden a Sysadmin?

    "Here's the encrypted files. Here's the password for the files. Here's some instructions on how to use the password."

    Does seem a bit weird. Either incredibly stupid or incredibly clever.

    Scenario 1. The real shit's just a big encrypted file, uploaded to the cloud, and all that needs to be muled is the password. Decoy Dave is sent to look all nervous with a bagful of hard disks, the password, and, in case the police are extra slow, some instructions on how to open it.

    Scenario 2. Snowden's been offered assylum, so he washes his hands of the whole thing, phones Greenwald in a panic, and says "get on over here and take it. I want nothing to do with it anymore. Passwords too..."

    I can't decide...

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  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No so bright

    The perps ain't as smart as they usually think they are and that's what leads to their downfall. It's going to make for good theatre seeing Snowden suffer a long, slow, painful death probably via radiation poisoning, KGB style.

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  25. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Security not the issue - government over-reach is.

    The issue is that the UK used a flimsy pretext and a total lack of moral authority to arrest and detain someone for reasons that are utterly unclear but cannot reasonably be thought to be in the "national interest." That excuse, as was shown in Parliament on Thursday, is now viewed with extreme scepticism, as is the immediate compliance with US military/security establishment demands. Stories from gov sources changing the agenda should be seen as such.

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  26. Michael Habel

    Heres hoping that...

    Snowden grows a pair, and finds a place to dump everything out there into the wild. The ensuing drama would be priceless!

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  27. Robinson

    Remarkable.

    It's remarkable to me that certain people here seem to hate their own countries more than those who are actually despotic, enough to support Snowden in his vainglorious attempt to get recognition. I mean the guy is HIDING IN RUSSIA, a country that tends to shoot awkward journalists rather than hold them at airports for a few hours.

    You people DISGUST ME.

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    1. Volker Hett
      Reply Icon
      Thumb Down

      Re: Remarkable.

      >It's remarkable to me that certain people here seem to hate their own countries more than those who are actually despotic, enough to support Snowden in his vainglorious attempt to get recognition.

      Funny you say that, I do love my country within reasonable limits. I really don't like GCHQ and PRISM to spy on me. Both are breaking german law doing it!

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    2. CABVolunteer
      Reply Icon

      Re: Remarkable.

      I have to fundamentally disagree with you.

      Whilst I might find the actions of a despotic regime in a foreign country obnoxious, I have no standing. However, when the actions of the government of the country of which I am a citizen go beyond the limits of civilized behaviour, I have the right, indeed the duty, to protest.

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    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      So you believe we should all "Follow the Government, right or wrong" then?

      That way lies death, destruction and genocide.

      A good human being will do whatever is in their power to stop a government that starts upon that road.

      First they came for the...

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    4. Red Bren
      Reply Icon
      Unhappy

      Even more remarkable...

      that certain governments seem to hate their own citizens more than those who are actually despotic.

      It's well known that Russia is no bastion of human rights, but that doesn't justify abuses by western governments because "it's not as bad as Russia." If you were mugged, would you be satisfied if your attacker escaped justice on the grounds that they only hit you, in some places they might have shot you?

      You depress me.

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      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        FAIL

        Re: Red Bren Re: Even more remarkable...

        ".....If you were mugged, would you be satisfied if your attacker escaped justice on the grounds that they only hit you, in some places they might have shot you?...." Yeah, so please show us on the doll where you were hit? Oh, you can't, becase no-one is interested in reading your delusional blatherings. You haven't been "mugged", you are just hapiilly living in some fantasy where you like to imagine you are just so gosh-darn cool and rebellious that the security services would consider you a top priority intercept target, when the reality is they have real fish to fry, not wannabes. Get over yourself.

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