Microsoft cuts Surface Pro price by $100 Hot on the heels of last week's revelation that Surface sales are utterly terrible, Microsoft has again cut the price of its Surface tablets. This time it's the Pro version that gets the discount, with $100 (US) removed from its price as of 4 August. One small ray of sunshine is that the price cut may not be permanent. The …
The Asus Transformer TF300 is much inferior to the Surface, nice, but it has a lower resoluition screen, no digitizer, no USB 3.0, and can't run Windows. If you just need something that can run on Android, fine, but if you need applications that needs a real OS and more advanced features despite its price the Surface Pro is an interesting option. If MS releases soon an Haswell version which would increase battery life it could be a winner (and they should also add a GPS and cellular connectivity at that price).
I appreciate it's not as powerful and the screen resolution is not as good, but that being said, it has REPLACED my Windows laptop, and I have not missed Windows at all for the 9 months or so I have owned it. I only realized how little I needed a PC until after I had got rid of it. And I am an IT professional, there are only 2 things I cannot do with my Asus, running large DBs like SQL Server, and running a few old Windows games that I used to like playing. Everything else the Asus works absolutely fine for whether its watching movies, writing and editing MS Office docs, sending emails via Exchange, remote access to other servers (like RDP and logmein), Android caters for 95% of what I used to do on a PC, and I suspect it won't be long before Android caters for the remaining 5%.
The original point was slightly different to the above however, why would I pay £800 for an inferior product like Surface (compared to a top of the line laptop)? When I could get a kick ass laptop for less money with a touch screen, and with many more times the storage? If I had to do any of the 5% of tasks that my Asus can't do, the Surface couldn't do anyway for lack of storage space. Which is why I think until the price of Surface devices come down to equal laptops why would I buy one?
Personally I cannot see why you'd want to use an Android device as a full blown computer replacement in the same sense I prefer using a workstation over a tablet and a tablet over a smartphone (that is to say I could do many tasks on the smartphone it's just not efficient or pleasant when the alternative is available). I've always been sold on the idea of having something (like a phone I suppose) that you can just plug into a full sized monitor, keyboard and mouse but we're not quite there yet (even something like Surface pro isn't there yet).
To your other point my answer hasn't changed, the Surface pro simply isn't the right device for you because you get 95% of what you need done on an ARM chip and there's no way that i5/i7 is going to be the same price as they're quite different beasts. Looking at it from the other side, how much extra would you be willing to pay to take care of that other 5%? If the answer is very little or none at all then I don't think Surface is ever going to tempt you unless they can get price parity with medium-high priced Android tablets and a low power Haswell design (which I'm guessing ain't gonna happen).
"I've always been sold on the idea of having something (like a phone I suppose) that you can just plug into a full sized monitor, keyboard and mouse but we're not quite there yet (even something like Surface pro isn't there yet)."
I have a MHL to HDMI adapter, and then HDMI to DVI since my monitor has no HDMI input. Add in a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and the citrix receiver and you have a BYOD solution.
Simon, I agree, I wouldn't pay extra for the additional 5%.
I think the problem is, people do not want to have 2 devices anymore, they want one. The reason why the Asus Transformer has been so successful with me is because of the keyboard the tablet slots in to. The keyboard part has the USB port and full-sized SD card slot, so I can get the laptop experience by just slotting in the tablet to the keyboard, it's great for typing on and I have all the apps I need for that 95% experience. Android has moved beyond just being a smartphone experience, its now far closer to a full computer experience than it ever was.
The Transformer is in a lot of ways its very similar to the Surface (i.e. tablet slotting in to keyboard), but the difference is Surface is way over-priced for what it is (especially since you have to pay extra for the keyboard), whereas the Android equivalents are not. I would not pay £800 for a 95% experience (I would stick with a laptop), but I would pay £400 (which I could also get a laptop for), that's the difference, it's price, and for the vast majority of people they don't even need the 95% experience, they probably only need a 60% experience, i.e. being able to watch movies, check emails and browse the web. That's why Surface is having to slash prices to sell their devices because people are going do I pick up this device here for £800 or this one over here for £400.
As long as you don't need Windows software is fine. But there are people who need it, and don't know what to do with Android software only. For example I can run on a Surface Canon camera software, and Photoshop thanks to the digitizer, its hi-res screen and I can also run software for astronomical CCD cameras, and so on. Try to do it on an Android device....
And about space, Surface can easily use SD cards and external disks if needed.
Sure a laptop may cost less, but it's also less comfortable to hold with one hand only. Sure, it's expensive and probably not a device for everyone, but it is a very intereting hibryd beween a tablet and an ultrabook.
Than MS haters could keep on downvoting, in hope that a Surface with Haswell chippery and a few tweaks will not wipe out most competition....
Agreed.
My nexus (with BT keyboard and USB mouse when needed) does basically everything I want. My parents have a transformer, and it does extremely well.
My wife, an author, wrote her last book (collaborating with another author) entirely on her iPad - because it's nice, light, portable, usable and with a decent editor for £9.
They are productivity devices, when you have appropriate peripherals (much like a PC needs peripherals). That they are also convenient to use without peripherals is just a bonus....
PS - for old games try DOSbox
Face it, the Surface brand will forever be seen as "that Turkey of an attempt at an iPad rival".
Consumers clearly either want an iPad regardless of cost or an Android because they're decent value. Surface isn't an iPad and, even if reduced in price, isn't a contender against the established Android infrastructure.
The apps situation tells you all you need to know about this market.
Surface ... isn't a contender against the established Android infrastructure.
The apps situation tells you all you need to know about this market.
Um, the Windows infrastructure is decades older and more mature than the Android one. There are an order of magnitude (if not two) more applications available for Windows 8 than for Android and iPad combined.
Actually - can you run VMWare on Surface Pro since it features a full W8 OS? Then you can also put Linux on it...
Um, the Windows infrastructure is decades older and more mature than the Android one.
Desktop Windows, yes. But they are depreciating that and replacing it with the new RT / Metro / Modern UI / etc. OS -- which has nothing compared to iOS or Android or desktop Windows, which was the other poster's valid point.
Why would anyone want to use Microsoft's new OS? If they are forcing people to change OS -- which they are -- people have other choices, and are taking them.
Why would one use "Win8":
Because the "alternatives" do not offer the capabilities (Linux, Android) of Win8 on a tablet pc (No, not even the Note-Series comes close, been there, tested it, sold the unit) or are not as good in certain areas (Win7)
There is no true (full featuresd) equivalent to Journal, OneNote, NaturalSpeaking, ArtRage, Foxit... on Linux, Android or iOS. No replacement for Exchange/Outlook and Sharepoint. Nor the rest of the infrastructure and ease of integration for mobile devices.
And there is no other OS that works as well on tablet pc and desktop (Even Win7 is only "almost as good") and the "one device" concept makes life easier when working in a corporate environment where I do both mobile, customer site and in-office work. Add in the capabilities of Sharepoint and soon local Azure clouds and Win8 becomes a system of choice.
And since I hate to use different OS for privat and job - Window for all uses. And W7 (still on most company boxes) and W8 are close enough there.
But the article is about the Pro, which is not the RT. The value of the Surface Pro is exactly it is a full Windows machinie and not an RT one only. They are not forcing people to change OS, or they would never have released the Pro. Just they know to run Windows they need a much more powerful machine than to run a less complex OS designed from scratch to run on less hardware. Probably their mistake is not have followed the iOS/Android way, take a phone OS and adapt if for tablets. They instead tried to simplify a desktop OS to run it on standard tablet hardware. Maybe it was smarter to take Windows Phone and upgrade it to a tablet OS. But a full Windows tablet that can use any Windows peripheral and software can have its space for tasks heavier than a tablet can afford. Sooner or later, even tablet OS will have to evolve to cope with more complex tasks, as the hardware improves. People won't accept too limited devices.
Actually Win8 runs fine on a dual core Atom like the TPT2 or Ativ500. The limits of those systems currently are 2GB and slow "pseudo SSD", both solved with Baytrail. A 4GB Atom with a full sized SSD (64-128GB) makes a fine tablet pc. Even the aging CTrail outperforms ARM in a fair test and has 8+ hours of endurance
The S/P is basically a low grade core-i device in many ways, a follow up to the "entry level" ASUS EP121 both in capabilities and price. More powerful core-i units (either tablets or convertibles) exist but cost more. OTOH a Fujitsu T73x/T90x or Lenovo X2xx can replace a desktop for everything but First person shooters. It serves two purposes: Setting a base price and base performance level.
Current gen (Haswell) core-i units get 7+ hours of use, more in a typical tablet pc mode (Less video, more note taking) at slightly over 1kg. From experience a weight that, contrary to some claims, can be handled well one handed.
The Surface Pro was never aimed at iPad or Android tablets because of course isn't either - the RT should have covered that market and did it very badly.
The Pro is an attempt to cover a different market, something between ARM tablets and their smartphone-derived OSes, and Ultrabook and their standard-productivty OSes. It this market really exists is yet to understand, the Pro hardware is still not so compelling in some aspects especially since Intel released Haswell chips, and its lack of 3G (or 4G) connectivity and GPS.
But at leat MS din't try to release just an iPad clone and explored a different device. If a Pro2 will increase battery life and add at least 3G and possibly GPS I'll buy one ASAP.
Why pay more:
+ I want a induktive pen (preferable WACOM) and either a tablet or a convertible. I use the maschine one handed quite often
+ Does that Ultrabook use SSD or spinning metal? In the latter case - no buy in a mobile unit
Granted, I won't buy a S/P because:
+ 10'' is to small for me, I want 12-13
+ Haswell is a must for core-i / Baytrail for Atom
+ I prefer user replaceable/upgradeable parts
+ UMTS/LTE is a must so I can get rid of the smartphone
So I will likely end up with a T90x with Haswell if I go "all out" or a Baytrail with 4GB if not by the end of this year.
OTOH I bet we will see a Haswell-equiped S/P2 by Q4. Simply because VEB Plaste & Elaste and Sony have the Haswell units out.
> Or do we still talk the Windows-on-ARM debacle?
Windows on ARM succeeded in its primary task though it has failed as a product (RT).
Its primary task was to stop OEMs selling ARM devices with other OSes on them by creating a threat to the 'loyalty' discount on _all_ products. It worked for HP and WebOS.
However, now that RT failed HP has moved to Android for its tablets.
This haven't learned the Tablet pricing lesson, Microsoft? No one is going to buy the Surface Prof for $899, particularly without the much needed keyboard attachment. How can these idiots not have learned the lesson from their 2002 Tablet PC's? Overpriced = customers won't buy. There are a gazillion products out there offering more value for less money, even if they don't run full Windows programs. Way to fail, Microsoft. Way to fail...
perhaps – just maybe – it's only American consumers who need an extra prod to acquire a Surface Pro
Perhaps they've realised that it's only the American consumers that might be conned into buying one.
I'd consider it if it I could dump Windows and run Linux/Android on it, but they've made extra efforts to prevent that.
If Microsoft added some speed optimisation proxy to Windows RT and kid's found out they could bypass the porn filters using it then that might work.
(Same as using bolt or ucweb or opera mini is totally unfiltered on mobiles regardless of settings).
As long as they let businesses disable it I think they would do anything to make it succeed.
...$100 off from a ONE THOUSAND dollar-priced tablet that nobody wants because it sports almost no apps, gained practically no traction at all, and this just after actually losing $2 BEEELLION (marketing cost + write-down) on their now widely-mocked tablets ...?
It's beyond incompetent or clueless or stupid - it seems either Ballmer and his ilks have some VERY serious basic comprehension issue when it comes to reality and facts or they are the most arrogant, most tone-def @hole idiots in business for more than a decade.
I know many people that would rather buy an iPad than a Surface, just because it is Microsoft trying to barge into others market. If Microsoft would just be satisfied with dominating the Office/Applications/Windows space and stop trying to rule the world by trying to take out Apple, VMware and Google in which stills makes them billions of dollars, then people would not detest them.
It is in everybody's interest to have many companies competing as this increases quality and technological advances.
Ballmer & Co are just greedy dictators who need to grow up to be honest.
Why shouldn't MS enter other markets? Everybody does! Didn't Apple or Samsung entered the smartphone market where there were other players already? Didn't Google wiped out Yahoo, Altavista, and others to dominate those markets? Freedom is also entering new markets with new products, as long as enti-competive behaviours are employed. Then customers will choose what they like most. You may hate MS as much as you like, but you can't deny them freedom...
Because Apple or Google are not greed? Every company is greed, and that's why Law exists. Then companies which are best at greed are also best at lobbying and can persuade politics to bend the Law in their direction... but what company was saved by Mr. Obama to avoid a ban on its patent-infringing products?
@LDS "but it's true it's not a device for everybody"
To judge by the truly staggering losses being made, it's a device for barely anybody.
I can appreciate that hardware-wise it actually is a nice bit of kit, but I would never go near it personally because of the boot lockout, even if they were to drop the price to sane levels.
It's a tablet and a laptop in one, but fails at both.
As a tablet (iPad/Android competitor) it's a little too large and heavy, the battery life is mediocre, it has cooling vents that I would be worried about obstructing, and the Windows 8 Metro software ecosystem is a disaster compared to iOS and Android and even Windows Phone.
As a laptop, the screen is much to small, you can't even use it on your lap with that worthless kickstand, and the keyboard(s) are nowhere near as good as any regular laptop keyboard.
It's no wonder nobody wants this thing.
The Yoga is only "similar" in the same way a Trabant and a VW Golf are similar. It has NO inductive digitizer so it is "just another touchy-toy"
As for the "non existing market": Lenovo, Fujitsu and HP seem to have a different opinion and churn out full featured Win8/x86 tablets and convertibles like they have done for a decade.
Same for some of our customers who USE them for that decade and "tested touchy toys, laughed/cried, dropped touchy toy" and bought Windows-tablet pc with Wacom/NTrig pens.
"Needing a keyboard": Only if I use it for software development or lengthy text entry. Everything else like note taking - Win8 HWR is beautiful and fast (even on an Atom). Tablet pc can do a lot more than just surfing the web.
But as we all know the Reg and Mr. Potts have no anti-MS bias
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