back to article MSX: The Japanese are coming! The Japanese are coming!

MSX: three initials that struck fear into the heart of Britain’s nascent home computer industry. The Japanese were coming, and the UK’s technology pioneers were anxious about what that might mean. Far Eastern firms like Sony, JVC, Sanyo and Pioneer had put paid to Britain’s mass-market hi-fi makers, and others had killed the …

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      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: It was training in autism.

        "Much later did I realize that, had those editors not been clueless brats they would have included error-detection and possibly correction codes." - one of the Acorn magazines (Acorn User?) included some sort of checking method to see if you made any typos. As a sufferer of dyscalculia, this was in itself a deterrent against making errors, what with a column of scary-looking hex beside each line of code...

        1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

          Re: It was training in autism.

          Micro User - *xs to checksum each line of the program in memory, and you compared it with the listed checksums published with the listings.

        2. Peter Gathercole Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: It was training in autism.

          But Acorn User also produced a barcode scanner for the BBC, and printed their programmes as barcodes as well as listings that could be scanned in, complete with checksumming.

          They had special yellow pages in the middle of the magazine so that you could find them easily.

        3. JQW

          Re: It was training in autism.

          Ah, yes, page after page of hex-dumps of machine code and/or data to POKE into RAM.

          Your Computer was particularly prone to listings like this. Initially these were printed without any form of checking. Eventually they had the bright idea of including a simple check-sum after every 32 hex characters, and also produced a small BASIC program for each platform to check this checksum and POKE in the hex. Unfortunately the initial version of this program they listed for the ZX Spectrum, although appearing to run fine, didn't write the hex into memory properly due to a subtle off-by-one error!

  1. Dick Kennedy

    MSX Computing and What MSX? did not publish in alternate months. What MSX? was bi-monthly but MSX Computing was a monthly. I only know because I worked on the damn thing.

  2. MajorTom

    Girl in the Sony ad

    Seiko Matsuda, really popular Japanese celebrity in the 80s. Haven't seen her face since about 1988, thanks for the face from the past.

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Girl in the Sony ad

      Yeah, and you can tell the mentality of the people the advert is aimed at.

      Cute girl - HUGE FACE SHOT. Computer? Product? Something? Kind of small and down in a corner. Look at the girl. Look at the girl. Look. At. The. GIRL.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Girl in the Sony ad

        Please go on....

  3. All names Taken
    Paris Hilton

    Moto GP

    And in Moto GP:

    The Chinese are coming!

    The Chinese are coming!

    Is it not great and wonderful that evolution happens such?

  4. heyrick Silver badge

    Too late to the party?

    The mid-late eighties (85-87) was wild. Old clunky eight bit hardware won't do any longer. The BBC Micro became in 1981, and just four short years later the Amiga made its debut, along with the Atari ST. We'd transitioned from an eight bit world to a 16/32 bit world. Perhaps more importantly we'd transitioned from hardware with limited addressing capabilities (in the order of 64K direct) to hardware with much more generous amounts of memory on board. The Acorn Archimedes, the first true 32 bit machine, arrived in '87. So wanting to promote the bigger better MSX take-two for Christmas '87 seems a bit... um... well, look at the competition. Sure, these bigger better machines weren't cheap (and as an owner of an Archimedes, I know they were amazingly expensive) but what they were in comparison to the cheap kit was not something that could be answered by looking at hardware specs. I got a lot out of my Beeb. I briefly owned a Speccy which I used to play games, and in the end I gave it to a friend who used it to play games until he got an Amiga. My Beeb was used for coding, and lots of fun with Econet. As for the Archimedes, I'm still with RISC OS today, albeit on something very different and raspberry-flavoured.

    tl;dr: Just look at the dates mentioned here and then do some research. The MSX was going to come and blow away the dross of the scattered home computer market. Only, by the time it arrived, the home computer market (still scattered!) blew them away. We'd moved on. And how. T'was a good idea though, software compatibility, and and idea that would be revisited in style with the birth of the PC market, which was also starting to make waves in the same time frame.

    1. Captain DaFt

      Re: Too late to the party?

      The article mentions that everyone saw 16 bit as the wave of the future (of the time.)

      So why did MSX decide to standardise on an 8 bit architecture? Seems odd.

  5. altrr
    Thumb Up

    Speaking of MSX in soviet Russia

    What a nostalgic article. I think my fingers still remember how to pass first few levels of Zanac :)

    In USSR, which for some reason had quite a few Yamaha MSX classes set up in schools, MSX story didn't completely end in 1990. About that time I was expelled from school (too much heavy music and too many away trips for Dynamo Moscow I guess) and my computers teacher convinced Moscow Institute of Digital Machines to employ a 17 years old hacker in a lab, which was developing soviet gaming and schools computers ("not worse than theirs" as the Party instructed :) ).

    In the next few years we ported MSX standard, with minor changes due to the limits of the available hardware, to 8080 chips based new gaming computer PK8002. Unfortunately it went only in a limited production just before the soviet collapse, which rendered the whole industry irrelevant there. Various bits and pieces were also used in a popular gaming PC Vector from Moldova and PK8020's basic and MicroDOS which was installed in tens of thousands schools in USSR.

    My "unofficial" part of work was porting games from MSX to those soviet computers, mostly Konami's, for which factories and shops paid very well, and that's where my MSX-emulation skills as well as a worn copy of the Red Book were very useful.

    Good old days...

  6. Mayor McCheese

    Pretty good article

    But you missed out the MSX 2+.

    In my opinion, the reason it all went wrong in the UK was that programmers here never figured out you could put multiple sprites on top of each other in order to make a multicoloured sprite. They must have taken one look at the specs and assumed it was just another Spectrum. A load of sloppy Speccie conversions followed, in some cases even with the stripey loading screen lines. And those of us who were used to Konami's quality as a bench mark couldn't believe what a load of crap the British software was.

    Anyway, happy days. I still remember the glow of the LEDs on my VG-8235. The feel of the keyboard on my NMS-8280. Proper, decent, stylish computers with decent cursor keys. Sniff.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pretty good article

      It wasn't that the coders didn't work out they could layer sprites. It was the economics of it meant that the MSX received straight Spectrum ports.

      Games would be coded for the Spectrum and then versions made for the other Z80 machines.

      The CPC version of R-Type is a good example. It was converted from the Spectrum in just 2 weeks by one person with no concessions at all to the extra hardware capability. It took until 2012 for some people to code a proper version of the game. Just look at the difference:

      Original version - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5mijRjvDkc

      2012 remake - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHH1V-zOlZk

      That's the problem. Software houses going to the least effort possible to get a game onto a system.

  7. ManuelBilderbeek
    Thumb Up

    Join us!

    For all people who have stories from those times, especially people who worked on things, please share your stories on the very active MSX forum on MSX Resource Center! Surf to http://www.msx.org/ Hope to see you there!

  8. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    alt-Speculation

    I'm currently toying with some PDP-11 code, and these article have set me wondering - what could have happened if the LSI-11 (PDP-11 as a single-chip CPU) had arrived a couple of years earlier and the Altair 8080 had used it instead, and CP/M had been written for the Altair 11, and 1970s hobbyist computers of the time had been PDP-11 based, and progressing to the early 1980s with a ZX-11, Spectrum-11, Amstrad CPC-11, etc. Would today's coders be crippled with the x86 model of programming instead of a neat orthogonal flat Rn register set?

    1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: alt-Speculation

      As much as I love the PDP-11 as an architecture, it would still have run out of steam in the late '80s. The problem was the memory model, and the mixed-endian nature of the system.

      Without further architectural evolution (which was the VAX-11 in 1978), the PDP-11 was limited to 64KB processes (unless you used overlays) mapped into an overall 22-bit (4MB) maximum address space.

      Don't get me wrong. It was a magic architecture, and because of the orthogonality of the ISA, I used to be able to decode PDP-11 machine code directly from octal dumps on paper. But it was a '70s architecture, not an '80s one.

      The '80s should have belonged to Motorola 68000, NS16032 or 32032 (a very nice instruction set), or possibly ARM, running UNIX derivatives.

      Just imagine if the IBM PC had had a 68000 with enough of a cut-down UNIX back in 1982. As soon as hard-disks became available (PC-XT time scales), we would have had multi-tasking full UNIX systems on the desktop, a bit like the AT&T 3B1.

      PDP-11s survive (even to the current day and into the future according to a recent El-Reg article) because they are fine industrial controllers for systems that do not need large amounts of code to perform their function.

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: alt-Speculation

        Of course, I was referring to non-I&D PDP-11, which I think that the LSI-11 was. I think that the J-11 and F-11 may have been separate I&D machines, but that only allows you to double the process address space, and even then, with serious limitations (64KB text space and 64KB data).

    2. Tom 7

      Re: alt-Speculation

      The 68000 series would have stopped all that shit happening - more specifically the 68008, or even IBM's801 which was to be the original IBM-PC chip. IBM fucked up big time!

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        Re: alt-Speculation

        Not sure that the 801 ROMP was really intended for PC machines. It was originally intended to be the CPU for a dedicated word-processor, but was picked up by the Advanced Workstation Team in IBM Austin to fill a niche as a technical workstation for education and engineering use. It was most successful as a CATIA workstation, either on it's own, or as a front-end to a mainframe using Distributed Services. It always had weak floating point performance until the advanced floating point processor was available late in it's life. It was an important stepping stone to the RS/6000, p Series and Power systems, and the PowerPC processor, though.

        Although the 6150 was originally marketed as a 6150 RT PC, it was never a PC per se. There is folk-law that suggests that it was going to be used as a PC, but looking at the reason why the 5150 was rushed out of the door as a quick-and-dirty temporary solution to stop the likes of Apple and various Z80 CP/M systems from dominating the market, it would never have been ready in the timescales required. That's why IBM used off-the-shelf components and a ready made OS and Basic for the system.

        1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

          Re: alt-Speculation @Me

          That should have been Advanced Workstation Division (AWD) in Austin.

  9. albaleo

    NEC 9801

    With so much attention to Japanese companies, why no mention of NEC and its 9801 models. From the early 80s, this series completely dominated the Japanese PC market, and probably accounts for Japan's later weakness in the global computer business. I guess I'm missing something. But I know who Matsuda Seiko is.

  10. Mr C
    Happy

    Memories are made of this

    MSX was my 1st computer and while other kids where playing games i was making little basic programs.

    Everything i discovered i did on my own, just experimenting. No books, nothing.

    Just alot of friends with similar interest and huge phonebills from calling each other for hours and talking about new stuff we found out.

    I must've taken my machine over to friends houses countless times in what was then the predecessors of lan parties, except that there was no lan or any other kind of networking. Just sitting next to each other doing cool stuff.

    And then i grew up, had a family, and now think back with nostalgia to those years which, if i could them all over again, i would.

    The smiley can't begin to convey the host of emotions i feel every time if think of those years.

  11. Simon Rockman

    Hated them

    I worked on the Argus MSX magazine, which I remember as MSX User, but Argus titles tended to be called "computing" as in A&B Computing, Computing Today, Games Computing etc.

    I always thought MSX computers were underwhelming with rubbish sprites and the games poor.

    1. Mayor McCheese

      Re: Hated them

      Dude! Get an emulator, and fire up some Konami classics - Vampire Killer, Treasure of Usas, Metal Gear, Aleste...

  12. Stu

    This article would have been...

    ...so much more 'palatable' had it been on one page rather than six.

    Just sayin'.

    Still, rather good, it was.

    1. Toxteth O'Gravy
      Headmaster

      Re: This article would have been...

      You'll be wanting the 'print this article' view, then...

  13. TheOtherHobbes

    I almost

    finished an entire track with a Yamaha CX5 connected to a couple of synths and a drum machine.

    Epic sequencing power by 80s standards. You could add and remove notes anywhere in the track.

    What you couldn't do was play from anywhere in the track.

    So you had to listen from the start to hear an edit at the end.

    Every. Time.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will we be talking about Xbox in a similar fashion in 20 years time?

    The flawed system that quickly disappeared without a trace.

    1. Tchou
      Holmes

      Re: Will we be talking about Xbox in a similar fashion in 20 years time?

      No.

      Just as nobody keeps fond memories of a 486 running Win95.

      It's not only a matter of time. These old machines were fascinating, because we were struggling with the limited but fully available hardware. It was magic. It was programming. It was a lot of fun.

      I still remember my first program written at school on a Thomson MO5 (standard school equipment in France, 1988 or so...) I was like 7. It was drawing a scrolling night sky.

      I fondly remember the Wednesday afternoons on Amiga 500 at friend place.

      I fondly remember my Atari 1040 at home and the arguments about which platform was the best =D.

      Then I had a PC... pretty boring in comparison... then a Mac.... Then PC's again... I don't miss any of them.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Will we be talking about Xbox in a similar fashion in 20 years time?

        Hell yeah.

        > Get the latest Scientific American in snail-mail (quite a few were lost in transit, but that's another matter)

        > Flip to "Computer Recreations"

        > Mandelbrot Sets Explained with formulas and pretty pictures.

        > Can't wait for school to finish, if only the girls weren't so distracting.

        > Get home

        > Fire up that Sony machine

        > Fiddle around to get something working, only getting 20% of the math

        > A FORM appears on the screen. One pixel every 5 seconds.

        > Success!!??

        > It doesn't look right...

        > But at least there is something!

  15. Jim 59

    A Race

    How could the Japanese mega-corps fail so spectacularly ? The home computer market was a race to get stuff on the shelves, and this seems to have favoured smaller, faster-moving companies. But that doesn't really explain how the American mega-corps succeeded, eg Texas Instruments.

  16. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

    Spectravideo 328

    We had the SV328 - that was a nice machine, and I knew it was somehow related to MSX but never knew the details until now and it explains why there was no software of note (in New Zealand at least).

    My mate had a C64 and after a few rounds of Summer Games at this place I would go back and feverishly type out my own version, being sure to remove all the spaces in the MS Basic source so it would fit in the 60KB (80KB less about 18 for ROM).

    30 years later I'm still doing the same thing, just with more horsepower, bigger sprites and I get to keep the spaces. Go figure.

  17. BajanCherry

    My first computer ever was the Canon MSX which I bought along with my friend when we were visiting London. He had money, I did not. He bought Pascal and Assembler too. I wrote an assembly code, hand converted to opcode and fed to the memory using debug command. With this code, I made my copy of Pascal and Assembler tape. Piracy, I give you that. But still, my first useful code.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IBM compatible micros ..

    I realised that our IBM Basic would be the standard for business and that lots of manufacturers would make micros that were IBM compatible

    No one including IBM predicted the PC clone market ..

    --

    “We will never make a 32-bit operating system”, Bill Gates

  19. Timbo
    Coat

    "Far Eastern firms like Sony, JVC, Sanyo and Pioneer had put paid to Britain’s mass-market hi-fi makers..."

    I'd agree with three of those names....Sony, JVC and Pioneer...but SANYO???? They made a few pieces of kit that might be best called "audio" but they were never truly "hi-fi"....

    Better choices might have been the likes of Rotel, Technics and Akai who ONLY made hi-fi kit :-)

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