back to article MasterCard stings PayPal with payment fee hike

PayPal, Google Wallet and other online payment systems face higher transaction fees from MasterCard in retaliation for their refusal to share data on what people are spending. Visa is likely to follow suit. The amount that PayPal has to pay MasterCard for every transaction will go up as the latter introduces new charges for …

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Vic
Silver badge

Re: Unsecured loans

Air NZ once offloaded me and a 1/2 a dozen other staff in HK in order to fit more mail on the plane. The bastards departed with 15 empty seats.

They may have needed to...

With aircraft, there is a maximum take-off weight which must not be exceeded. Besides that, extra weight means a longer take-off and a longer landing[1]. If there's insufficient runway at either end, the flight is off...

Extra weight will also mean increased fuel burn - and that's not always a nice linear relationship. It might be that the extra weight of "staff" passengers would cost far more in fuel than the tickets were worth.

Vic.

[1] For light aircraft, every 10% extra weight above nominal means a 20% longer take-off roll and a 10% longer landing roll. That's cumulative with other penalties, and they soon add up. See AIC 127/2006 for details[2].

[2] Yes, I'm studying for my Air Law exam...

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Anonymous Coward

Direct to/from Bank. Remove the credit card stage?

As a seller (and buyer) on ebay my paypal account is linked to my bank account and there is no processing fee when taking money from or paying into my account. Surely it would be in the interest of ebay/paypal to offer some sort of discount to people who signed up for such direct transfers? At the very least the number of reduced credit card transactions that would result might make mastercard and visa thing again.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Direct to/from Bank. Remove the credit card stage?

Sorry "Think again"...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Direct to/from Bank. Remove the credit card stage?

Tried that with HSBC. They blocked the linkage (as this competes with their credit card). Ditto for quite a few other banks.

Same as Visa automatically tries to flag any transaction by interim processors as fraudulent and so on.

It all has one aim - anti-competitive practices. Nothing else @ play there - move along.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Direct to/from Bank. Remove the credit card stage?

Currently works okay for me with Virgin One (aka RBS).

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WIll I be the first to say 'Bitcoin' ?

Cutting Visa and Mastercard off at the knees is surely a good reason to start accepting payments in Bitcoin.

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Meh

Re: WIll I be the first to say 'Bitcoin' ?

Does anyone still use Bitcoin? Last I checked the cost of electricity far outweighed the ability of pools to mine the coins and I have yet to see anyone accepting Bitcoin in commercial space*.

($1500 dedicated mining rigs and Mom and Pop size stores notwithstanding)

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Meh

Re: WIll I be the first to say 'Bitcoin' ?

Except that Bitcoin lacks the hugely important ability to transfer funds directly to and from your bank account, which is where 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the world's online purchasers have their funds for buying things online.

In order for that to be possible it would have to lose the secrecy and start to play nice with the world's central banks.

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Obviously they're still experimental, but at least one "real" company (Namecheap) has decided accepting them make business sense. I think it would be a mistake to discount them entirely when considering payment options.

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Anonymous Coward

Hey, Credit card companies....

Hey, Credit Card companies, I have a crazy suggestion for you:

Why don't you guys make it easier to do the sort of transactions that Google Wallet and Paypal facilitate directly through your cards, so that we don't have to have an intermediate (especially one as untrustworthy as Paypal)?

If it were as easy for me to go directly to my Visa/Mastercard/Amex/Discover card for these sorts of transactions as it is to go through Google Wallet or Paypal, then I might very well do so, and you would get all that lovely data rather than Google/Paypal, and you could get all the fees rather than sharing.

After all, you are the ones who frequently laud the "free market" - isn't this just a case of the free market creating a better solution than yours?

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Mushroom

Re: Hey, Credit card companies....

Of course they laud the free market - which to them, means their freedom to dominate and/or own the market.

A pox and a plague on all their houses...

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Re: Hey, Credit card companies....

er...they are:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/17/v_me_logo_visa_online_shopping/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hey, Credit card companies....

Hahaha, no, not really. That effort is to "easy" as what "privacy" is to Google. That effort leaves the problem in the middle neatly in place - the problem that is about to hit its second DECADE of existence.

I must compliment VISA and Mastercard on this, I have yet to see any other setup which can a. hang on to a monopoly that long without any credible challenge and b. bury the problems in their setup under such a mountain of red tape that nobody spots that the only setups that can address the current credit card issues are VISA and Mastercard themselves. Absolute blinder.

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Anonymous Coward

Visa vs Google Wallet

Did anyone else here recently get a Barclaycard Paytag sent out to them?

I received mine, unsolicited, in the post last month. In the rather breathless leaflet that accompanied it they suggested that I should stick it to the back of my phone and then I could use it wherever pay-by-bonk facilities existed. Given that the "tag" is thicker than my existing credit card (though it is much smaller in area) I didn't consider the idea for very long at all. It makes the phone uncomfortable to hold, catches on my pocket, looks atrocious, and I can imagine very easily the circumstances in which it would fall off unnoticed to be picked up by some criminal chancer who then abuses my credit limit at the local MaccyDees or wherever.

One pair of heavy duty pliers and a call to an Indian call-centre later I was officially not a BC Paytag user any more.

If Barclaycard et al think that this is the way forward they are surely not thinking straight. It seems to me that the power of the phone as a payment device is rather stronger, and therefore worrisome to the established credit card players, than at first meets the eye. BC just don't have the wherewithal to compete. They need to sign on the dotted line with Google/Samsung/Vodafone/Paypal/Apple/O2 or whoever before it gets to late. Access to the phone's NFC loop is key to the whole proposition.

And given that most smartphone users will find managing their credit card/credit loop by App compellingly convenient I would have thought that the OS and/or device manufacturers are in the driving seat on this one.

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Meh

I have to wonder just how long before Google and PayPal (eBay) start issuing their own credit/debit cards?

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Anonymous Coward

or buy an EU bank - there are some in Cyprus going cheap at the moment - and start from there ...

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Anonymous Coward

Yeah, the banks are going cheap, but they do come saddled with really rather a large amount of debt.

Also their major customers are Russian tax avoiders, who y'know may not be the most reliable of people to build a business on, as the Cypriots are currently finding out.

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Anonymous Coward

Russian tax avoiders

aka Russian mafia are VERY reliable, until you decide to take away some of their money, without their permission (see the "Cypriot job" recently). Actually, I bet the Russians will stay reliable when you do take away some of their money. They will go after whoever made the decisions on the that tax (funny how nobody in Europe has claimed responsibility, eh?) - and the Russians will not go for "justice" through the courtrooms, nosir, courtrooms are for pussies.

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Unhappy

"most will see this as an embedded duopoly using its market power to undermine competitors"

Yep. Though Callam McMillan might be right about the competition commission, and/or the EU blocking it on this side of the pond.

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ACx

God, who to hate more? Paypal? Google? Credit peddlers? Banks? And that's with out MS, Apple, Ebay, and Facebook. Oh, government. Forgot them.

Seriously, how do we sort these b'stards out? Why must we be at the mercy of these faceless, self-serving pieces of........?

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Well, we have a wall. We could have them face away from it.

I need a pitchfork icon.

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Big Brother

Proof

Proof of what I have been saying: Conspiracy theorists, anti-government nutjobs libertarians and the media have all been telling you to worry about the government, for they are collecting information on you.

All the while you ignorantly, and blissfully, ignore CORPORATIONS, the real concentration of money and power in today's world.

Here is a company that is willing to penalize other companies, and therefore YOU via passed-on higher fees, because they can't grab more information on you than they already have.

But we're supposed to fear the government. Yeah.

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google cc

I got an unwelcome cold call a week ago from google (india by the sounds of it) trying to push their Adwords credit card. (annoyance was increased since they provide zero support for google merchant center where they advertise the card recently).

The FSA regulated Google entity called 'google checkout' or something has offices in UK that are in same Building as AMEX. They do not have a phone number to call them - do not trust the google jokers.

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Anonymous Coward

So simply past on the extra transaction fee to the customer, and encourage them to use Visa.

But surely if MasterCard process the transaction, they all the information they could need.

Sounds like greed to me.

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zb
Pirate

I do hope so

" MasterCard clearly feels the PayPal's raison d'etre has been largely eliminated - so the time has come for the killer punch."

The pain PP has given me makes me hope that they die, painfully. Not that I have much time for the credit cards companies either.

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It's like watching Fred West and Ian Brady having a fight...

... I don't really care who wins, as long as they seriously harm each other.

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Pint

Re: It's like watching Fred West and Ian Brady having a fight...

I don't know who ether of those people are, but I agree completely.

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Re: It's like watching Fred West and Ian Brady having a fight...

You could swap either name out for Peter Sutcliffe and the sense of it would remain unchanged. They were all very bad men.

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This post has been deleted by its author

WTF?

Maybe naivety given their dominance, but surely this would flag up in any sane country as anti competitive?

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Google and PayPal going into the legacy card business? Very very unlikely. The reason you can get cash out of the wall is because VISA and MC integrate tightly with all the providers of ATMs in the world. If they didn't, you'd be limited to your bank's cash machines. I don't think the banks of the world want to spend hundreds of man-years implementing and then paying for a new competing system which would provide them no benefit at all.

There's nothing anti-competitive about VISA and MC, they're simply the incumbents who the banks will only deal with.

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Silver badge

But they are anti-competitive...

Instead of sticking to the payment processing thing, they're doing a dick move on these intermediate processors. And they do it because they know that nobody's willing to put up a payment processing system as big as theirs.

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thought sams/walmart attempted to do this

I thought WalMart and Sam's club attempted to start their own credit card, or maybe their own credit card processing company a few years back. Trying to crush the fees from visa or mc I thought. They bailed on the idea though, it was probably enough to scare the hell out of them, and got them to lower their fees to WalMart.

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Silver badge
FAIL

Any source of money is "totally appropriate" to these leaches. Just what benefits do they add?

If there are any near banking operations that need investigating it is these two, talk about too big to fail - they epitomise the term.

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Re: Just what benefits do they add?

Well for one I don't have to have more than the amount of cash for the purchase I want to make in my wallet. Just some change sized bills to pick up small stuff.

Next up, because I'm not carrying that much cash, lost and/or mugged are far less problematic.

And if I see a really good deal on something that won't last until next paycheck, I can choose to buy it now if I think it justifies the savings.

For online purchases I've rarely not been able to make a purchase using one of them. The exception was a photographer who signed a monopoly deal with a venue for their guests and took either cash or paypal. Since I hate paypal even more than Visa and MC he lost out on sales. I wouldn't object to him taking paypal in addition to, but instead of? That's a loser.

On the vendor side there are similar and better benefits.

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Pirate

What's in your wallet?

Cash. It's called cash. No fees required.

Jolly Roger because now we know where all the pirates went.

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Mushroom

Let me see if I have this down

Mastercard want to charge Google/Paypal more per transaction, therefore charging ME more per transaction, because Google.Paypal aren't giving them access to MY FUCKING PERSONAL INFORMATION. So I'm going to have to pay more because one greedy corporation won't give another greedy corporation purchasing-history data that BELONGS TO ME in the first place.

If this isn't outright criminal fraud, theft and embezzlement I don't know what is. If they try to do this in Australia, I WILL be contacting the police and my local MP and seeking to press fraud, theft and unauthorised access to information charges against both PayPal and Mastercard.

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Re: Let me see if I have this down

It costs billions to facilitate those transactions you want to make. The money has to come from somewhere.

Personally I'd prefer it in upfront charges. But most users balk at that so the corporations found alternate revenue streams. If people didn't buy stuff from the alternate revenue streams, they would die.

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Foo on all this data

No wonder I refuse to own a credit card and try not to use my debit card when I can use cash. It's nobody's business but my own as to what I bought. The only data that MasterCard needs is who processed the transaction so that they can bill them for it. My purchasing habits are NOT yours, and if you want to know more about it I suggest you sweeten the pot and offer me something in return other than the priv of using your card in the first place.

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Which will it be named:

Poogle or Gaypal?

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Thumb Down

Unlawful?

QUOTE ... "share the purchasing data with the credit-card companies like they're supposed to" so Mastercard slaps a penalty charge on, which is illegal in EU law. They have stated that it is only because Paypal et al won't share data, hence it is a penalty for not doing so. Big boys throwing their weight around again.

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other alternatives needed

Its is not true that everybody wants to use an CC as possibility to shop in web, others have really good alternatives like paysafecard where you can buy without giving your name and datas about your CC, its a decision to be more anonymous and feel more safe. I also think that this is the base of the future - cash will vanish and the direction is prepaid.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: registering to receive credit-card payments was a tortuous process best left to large retailers

That may have been true back in the 1950s, but it hasn't been true for a long time.

I setup two accounts each for processing Mastercard and Visa for a non-profit about 12 years ago. I had no banking experience at the time and it was a fairly easy process to be setup to receive payments. We did it to reduce cash handling at a major event. At the time were were handling more actual cash on a daily basis than most banks do (most of their money is 1s and 0s or dark ink on a line). What did confuse them was we only did it for three days out of the year and were pretty much dead the rest of it.

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paypal? I wouldn't go within a million miles of them

www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://www.paypal.com

Of the 2996 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 33 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2013-03-27, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2013-03-23.

Malicious software includes 36 exploit(s), 15 trojan(s).

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