back to article Windows Phone 8 support to end in 2014

If you're shopping for a new mobe on a two year contract and like the look of a Windows Phone, chances are you'll be compelled to undergo an OS upgrade or face using a handset that's not supported by the end of your deal. The Reg offers this advice with a tip of the hat to Italian site Plaffo, which pointed out a Microsoft …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So if I had bought a @tabinnorway

        "If you upgrade to Windows 8.5 (or whatever version number they are going to assign it then) you have full support."

        You should sue your old school for failing to develop your critical thinking faculties.

        If you can upgrade your phone that's fine. But that assumes that your hardware is compatible. That the manufacturer can be bothered to release the upgrade. That the mobile companies can be bothered to test their bloatware and release the modified system (already modded by the handset makers). That the end users knows there's an upgrade, is willing to have all their personalisation and specifics wiped (probably), and even knows how, or cares to upgrade.

        Apple have it easy. They aren't supporting many handset variations and they have far more control. But the future of WP will likely be the same as Android - huge fragmentation, cause by the fact that you start "losing handsets" at each step of the assumptions in the paragraph above. For the top line handsets things usually work OK in terms of availability, but once you get to the mid range and cheapies the support effort falls off a cliff when production ends.

        So this really does look like a poorly judged move by MS, given their track record and poor take up of WP. It implies they don't care about the owners of handsets they've previously orphaned, and it suggests they haven't learned from Android experience. How much would it have cost them to have declared support available for another few years? The cost of continued bug and security fixes on something that's been released and supported a couple of years would be negligible. Obviously there's a concern that makers and networks might not want to do the same, but MS need to twist these people's arms, and they need to make upgrades far more automatic as well.

  1. Michael Habel
    Linux

    Knowing their history of Pocket PC Phones (i.e. running Windows CE)

    When an update came out it usually kept older users off-line due to the amount of memory the Device had, as opposed to what it needed to run the Update. Microsoft wouldn't do that to their users again?! Surly...

    As if I needed yet another reason NOT to buy a WinPhone.

    Apple love 'em or hate 'em, do bother to support their older Hardware to-date

    Android being open as it is, has Community Support

    Microsoft.... Go buy anther Phone ya cheapskate!

    I personally detest Apple and Microsoft can go take a hike for all I care. Android may or may not be all that its cracked up to be. Time will tell when Samsung release their Tizen Phone latter this Summer. Which like Android... Should be open sourced and running under Linux!

    So that's, that sorted then...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      "Should be open sourced and running under Linux!"

      Do I hear you, I really do, but am I the only elephant in the room thinking none of these phones are really open source or running Linux? Ok, you can prove it technically, but if you have 3 major competitors running Linux and supposed OSS, and all 3 have their own app stores...WTF gives? If love can be given to computing, then I love Linux and OSS, but I don't feel these companies share the same type of love.

      1. Michael Habel

        Could it be that I was unclear?

        How you could otherwise imply that Microsoft are Open Source, I know not. I highly doubt that iOS is also Open.

        The "Should be open sourced and running under Linux!" jab was meant **ONLY** for Android, and Samsungs' soon to be released Tizen OS. but, other then that yes I think most People would agree that although is the most open of all (At the moment given that Tizen does NOT exist!); We all know that its not a fully disclosed OS. Beit in the case of the OEMs individual "Tweeks" or the Binary Drivers of some Radio Chip inside the Phone itself. Its still considerd to be more or less Open Sourced.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Android being open as it is, has Community Support" - Microsoft have provided more updates covering more devices than Android manufacturers have. Many old Android handsets are stuck on old OS versions even though they could run a newer version. That hasn't happened anywhere near as much with windows Phone.

      Tizen? so more Linux fragmentation then....

      1. Michael Habel

        Really 'cause Microsoft just pulled their Finger out of the Arse One day and decided that 7 was the new 1.

        NEWS FLASH Microsoft have been in Mobile since DAY ONE! Way before Sony Erickson, and before the Jesus Phone was even a twinkle in St. Jobs Eye. Support bahhhahahahahah likely story pal. yea might want to read a few wiki sites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile.

        At least as an Android user I have an opportunity to use an updated (and, likely badly broken) OS update. No thanks to the "Community", what are you gonna do when Microsoft decide that its time to rake ya for a new Phone again?

        As for Tizen this isn't Linux on the Desktop (e.g. apt vs. yum / .deb vs. .rpm etc... etc... I agree though if those wrinkles could get ironed out it would likely make mass adoption of Linux possible). this is about Linux on the Phone where 99.9999% of the Public couldn't give a flying feather about the OS its running, but rather how compatible Samsung can make it with say the Android Market, or if they can prove more successful then say Microsoft at building their own App Store. In any case this boils down to One thing and, that's competition and THAT'S A GOOD THING!

  2. cyberdemon Silver badge
    WTF?

    Great move Elop

    So the question returns - did Microsoft deliberately scuttle Nokia?

    Even if Elop didn't know at the time that this was on the cards, what an utter catastrophe this must be for Nokia.

    It turns out that they jumped from two perfectly sound platforms, onto the burning one.

    As I have said before on here, Maemo could have been a showstopper if Elop hadn't killed it off (at the likely behest of his friends at Redmond)

    N900 still going strong, despite being dumped some years ago. Packages are still being maintained, although I must admit updates are few and far between these days..

    I don't know of any other phone that functions as a full remote SSH terminal complete with authentication agent forwarding, port forwarding, X11 forwarding if I so wish and of course a hardware keyboard. I can even run Matlab remotely, complete with figures.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Great move Elop

      I said at the time that the primary motivation for Microsoft's bot Elop was to kill the possibility of a truly open source phone phone platform (sadly that desire was shared by most of the industry), not to make Nokia or even Windows Phone successful. They want us hooked to their clouds. Naturally we are always dismissed as the tinfoil-hat brigade etc.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Great move Elop

      Erm - but Nokia are back making a profit - largely thanks to Microsoft.

      1. Silverburn
        Windows

        Re: Great move Elop

        Erm - but Nokia are back making a profit - largely thanks to Microsoft.

        Methinks the 920 etc would probably still have "sold well" *cough* if it had shipped with Jelly bean etc.

        The OS != the phone.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Great move Elop

          "Methinks the 920 etc would probably still have "sold well" *cough* if it had shipped with Jelly bean etc."

          Mmm, then I would have considered one, certainly. When my old device got too tired and emotional, I just picked up an S3 instead (not a bad option either).

      2. fishman

        Re: Great move Elop

        <<<Erm - but Nokia are back making a profit - largely thanks to Microsoft.>>>

        Yeah, without those big payments ($1B) from Microsoft Nokia wouldn't have posted a few million in profits.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Great move Elop

        @AC 18th 08:30

        Learn to read a balance sheet

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Great move Elop

          "Learn to read a balance sheet" - learn to read company results:

          Nokia’s Q4 2012: $584 million operating profit, $10.7 billion in net sales, 4.4 million Lumia phones sold

          The company ended Q4 with gross cash of 9.9 billion euros ($13.2 billion) and net cash of 4.4 billion euros ($5.86 billion), which is up from of 8.8 billion euros ($11.7 billion) and net cash of 3.4 billion euros ($4.53 billion) in the third quarter respectively.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Great move Elop

            As long as they can sell assets and book them as income they will be fine.

            As long as MS feeds them a billion often enough they will be ok.

            As long as they can keep firing people they will be OK

            Eventually there will nothing left

      4. Levente Szileszky
        Stop

        Re: Great move Elop

        "Erm - but Nokia are back making a profit - largely thanks to Microsoft."

        No, they are NOT, they are QUICKLY LOSING MARKET SHARE, and their most important segment, SMARTPHONE SALES ARE FALLING OFF A CLIFF.

        Elop is a clueless corporate/MS shitkicker, nothing less, nothing more - cutting back on poeple, research and taking huge payoffs from MS will might turn the bottom line to black but it's KILLING OFF NOKIA, DELIBERATELY.

        Lot of us suspected from the beginning: it's a win-win for MS, they give a chance to someone to try with WP but if didn't work (as expected) they will be able to pick up Nokia's excellent HW/design division and distrib channels for peanuts... great work, Elop, you clown.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Great move Elop

      MS's track record on mobile compatibility is less than stellar. All it takes is a little sentence tacked at the end of this announcement to address customers' and manufacturers' concerns.

      The fact that they haven't done that shows that MS are still deaf to people's concerns, it's another dead-end version, or they don't even know yet (entirely possible if they're going to sort out XAML compatibility between the three platforms once and for all).

    4. mmeier

      Re: Great move Elop

      The Maemo/Meego phones and mini-tablets (N770 was a tablet only IIRC) where nice hardware and a software that had some features Android is lacking (like an X-Server). Would be nice if Nokia could bring out an upgraded (induktiv-capacitvie dual mode instead of resistive digitizer) version of the hardware no matter what OS. Basically sturdy lil beasts (Actually a bit larger than a Note 2 IIRC)

      The rest of the system was so-so and Nokia never delivered a tool chain that was as easy to use as the one for Android or Windows Phone (And the last two or so years of Windows Mobile). That and their lack / unwillingness to licence/enable some features (like the CPUs JAVA support) of the hardware (even pre-Elop) killed at least parts of the software market. Sadly so since the lil beast could have run the same JAVA software as a desktop.

      Lack of advertisement and the units not/rarely showing up in the big outlet chains made them an even less known product. Again this started with the N770 unit well before Elop. Than a few hardware problems (WSOD anyone) and unlucky upgrade policy for the OS and the unit was dead even before the N900 came out.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Great move Elop

        > Nokia never delivered a tool chain that was as easy to use as ..

        They didn't need to, the N770/N8x0 were Linux + GTK (subset). I used Python and Glade to develop stuff that ran, unmodified, on N800, Linux and Windows. They would even run Gnumeric and Abiword.

        Later N900 and N9 were Qt based but just as easy to write portable apps.

        1. mmeier

          Re: Great move Elop

          And required a relatively complex setup to test them compared to Android or Windows Mobile/Windows Phone. Not to mention that Phython is not the most common of languages. Android is a Java Derivate and Windows Mobile used whatever .NET you liked in the last years (never did WP7/8 - no stylus no buy!)

    5. Vic

      Re: Great move Elop

      > I don't know of any other phone that functions as a full remote SSH terminal

      ConnectBot on Android does a good job of it.

      I haven't tried X forwarding with it :-) But port forwarding works brilliantly, and it's how I connect to my mail server - key-based authentication to get into the server, then port-forward the SMTP and IMAP ports.

      Vic.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9

    If you actually looked a bit further - and heck even the Slashdot story noted this bit - all current handsets will be upgraded *for free* to WP9 (as Microsoft, and not Android vendors) are the ones pushing out the updates.

    But don't let that get in the way of your BS

    1. cyberdemon Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9

      Actually that's not true. Slashdot says nothing of WP9, and instead says this:

      http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/03/17/1914209/microsoft-to-abandon-windows-phone

      You're probably right, but we're all secretly hoping for the death of Windows Phone anyway.

      1. Quxy
        Pint

        I'm an OSS developer...

        ...but Microsoft's accelerated EOS strategy sounds more like a common-sense acknowledgement of the state of mobile OSes than anything else. I'm not interested in WP, but the planned obsolescence of previous versions seems sensible enough in a market dominated by IOS and Android. The RHEL 5 and Windows XP models of long-term support really have little validity in the land of smartphones with rapidly-evolving hardware and two-year contracts.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Up

          Re: I'm an OSS developer...

          "...have little validity in the land of smartphones with rapidly-evolving hardware and two-year contracts."

          This is true, from the point of view of OSS does it even matter? Not really, which is why we are OSS. However, developers could and will still scramble. I know you know this, but for the non-OSS world, there is licenses for devkits, closed APi's possibly with incomplete documentation, even more disclosure agreements...the whole process can be timely and costly for these type of transitions.

          I agree with you though, 100%...however I'm OSS too.

      2. Andrew_b65
        Stop

        Re: All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9

        Described by their own readers as 'bullshit FUD'. Go figure it out before you spread nonsense like this around the Reg.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9

        "we're all secretly hoping for the death of Windows Phone anyway." - I guess you havn't used it then. WP is a lot better than any Android option.

      4. dogged
        Facepalm

        Re: All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9

        we're all secretly hoping for the death of Windows Phone anyway.

        Because less choice is SO FREAKIN AWESOME right?

    2. Charles Manning

      What does "works" mean anyway?

      More than likely it means W9 really needs a quad-core + GPU + 1G of RAM (or whatever huge amount of resources are available in next gen phones), but will limp along providing a limited and crappy experience on re-OSed W8 phones.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What does "works" mean anyway?

        It runs fast on a dual core. So unless Microsoft planning on adding something really big and bloaty like an Android VM runtime, I can't see why it wouldn't run well on a existing phones.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What does "works" mean anyway?

        "More than likely it means W9 really needs a quad-core + GPU + 1G of RAM"

        Seems unlikely - Windows Phone is a lot more efficient than Android, can run in less RAM and is faster to use even on a lower spec CPU.

    3. jake Silver badge

      @AC03:01 (Was: Re: All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9)

      The user known as `MyBackDoor`'s GreatAuntSallie bought a WP8 based on `MyBackDoor`'s opinion. Redmond forces a major .rev (supported by the telco, which doesn't want exploitable holes in handsets).

      `MyBackDoor` is now saddled with support calls from GreatAuntSallie, because "the perfect phone that my niece suggested to me, not 13 months ago, no longer looks/feels/works the same!".

      `MyBackDoor` suddenly feels a right ass.

      ::wanders away, mumbling "hey you kids, get off my lawn!"::

    4. fishman

      Re: All current handsets are supported and will be upgraded to WP9

      <<all current handsets will be upgraded *for free* to WP9>>

      No, they will be upgraded to the next major version of WP. That could mean WP8.1, or WP8.5, or whatever they may call the next major version.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Pin the tail on the donkey.

    Microsoft has to keep moving in this market, they are in no position to idle. If Win8 doesn't work out, they throw another dart at the board and move to another strategy. It's rinse and repeat, but on a grander scale than just application design...OS design.

    I can see how this is good for development, and I can see how developers will worry left and right. But hey, if you want the programs you develop to be #1, you'll first need a #1 OS, and Microsoft wants to give that to them. I'm NOT defending MS, I'm a Debian fan, but for a company to know it needs improvement, this is logical step.

    However, ...and here it comes.... however, if everyone would just get on board with a Linux distro, seasoned developers would have a little less worrying over portability. If that happened who knows, maybe a day would come when you could run any app on any OS you wanted...sorry, that last line was just me thinking like a consumer, carry on with the normal corporate thinking.

  5. Quxy

    @Donkey

    Having talked to plenty of mobile developers, I suspect that you're right. Windows XP was arguably Microsoft's high-water mark in terms of desktop OS stability, long-term support, and market acceptance -- and developers joined in droves. But (despite CE and 6.5) Microsoft has become the new kid in smartphone OS, and the UNIX-based kernels used by everybody else really look like the safe bet. WPx just doesn't bring enough to the table to be worth learning a completely new model of apps development.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: @Donkey

      "Windows XP was arguably Microsoft's high-water mark in terms of desktop OS stability, long-term support, and market acceptance " - ermk - That's Windows 7 surely....

  6. Eddy Ito

    Is anyone but me a tad surprised that the support end date for WP 7.8 is a full two months after the end date for WP 8? It makes me think that there will be an 8.x update that will follow in the path of 7.8 and will expire about the same time as 9.0 or something. Whether there will be a 7.9 that will extend the life of older phones I wouldn't hazard a guess.

  7. HCV

    I've got this question in to Jessica Alba. I'll let you know as soon as she replies.

  8. Paul J Turner

    'death riding'?

    so you thought 'deriding' was a contraction?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'death riding'?

      Just typical nonsensical drivel from "editor" Simon Sharwood...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    This article seems a bit of a troll.

    The number of times I've asked what the support period is for the OS on a phone I've bought? Zero.

    The number of times I'll ask that question in the future? Zero.

    For all the reasons I'm not planning to buy a Win 8 phone, this is definitely not one of them.

    1. Chairo
      Windows

      Re: This article seems a bit of a troll.

      Obviously you didn't buy a iPhone 3G just before IOS4 was released, otherwise you definitely WOULD ask this question in the future.

      But yes, I agree, this article smells a bit like a troll. Anyway it's on El Reg, what do you expect?

      Homeless - he also likes to sleep under bridges.

    2. mathew42
      Linux

      Re: Nexus for upgradeability

      Interesting. I've brought a Nexus 7, recommended a Nexus 10 and almost brought a Nexus 4 (except it lacked 4G) because they all come with the promise from Google that the firmware will be upgraded. Several other people share this view.

      1. Z80
        Headmaster

        Re: Nexus for upgradeability

        "I've brought a Nexus 7"

        Where did you bring it?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          What do you expect?

          Here is the very anatomy of a typical brainless commentard:

          Spells own name wrong;

          Fails to use capitalisation;

          Doesn't understand the meaning of simple words.

          And yet, still believes that his opinion is of value and other people will want to hear it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nexus for upgradeability

        "they all come with the promise from Google that the firmware will be upgraded"

        I'm sorry but I've owned every Nexus device excluding the Galaxy Nexus and N10. Nowhere have I seen this promise. It is at best an expectation as Nexus devices are intended as the developer flagship device, but that is all. The Nexus S, which is perfectly capable of running 4.2.2 ended it's update cycle at 4.2.1.

  10. tempemeaty

    A series of short supports to an OS in the clouds

    Having read this and other articles on Microsoft's latest update plans, it leaves me thinking this is about Microsoft pushing for a new OS version every year now. It's about Microsoft using constant OS version changes to acclimate users to an acceptance(or acquiescence) of/to the outcome being a cloud based OS in the shortest possible time.

  11. Kanhef

    Another possibility

    is that they're killing Windows Phone entirely, replacing it with Windows RT/8/9/Blue. I seem to recall them saying a while back that they wanted a more unified interface across all versions of Windows.

    1. VaalDonkie

      Re: Another possibility

      The WP8 interface seems pretty "unified" to me. But I believe you are onto something.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When Windows Phone 8 was announced Microsoft promised 18 months minimum of support. Given the first handsets shipped in October I would say that they have already exceeded the 18 months with this announcement.

    So what use is this story?

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