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back to article Mark Shuttleworth: Canonical leads Ubuntu, not 'your whims'

After several months without posting, Mark Shuttleworth has returned to his official blog with some harsh words for those in the Ubuntu community who have been critical of Canonical's recent efforts to transform the OS into a multi-faceted platform for mobile devices and the cloud. "If you've done what you want for Ubuntu, …

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  2. tracyanne

    This is typical Shuttleworth rhetoric

    Create a strawman and demolish it, then trample it's remains into the dirt.

    It's all well and good that he defend his vision for Ubuntu, but he could at least address the actual issues that people have raised. Personally I am rather excited by his vision of a, as he phrases it, "convergent" desktop, but I was (and still am, and well before he described his vision) excited by the KDE communitiy's vision of the exactly the same thing.

    He has failed to address concerns over privacy, and yes it easier to turn the advertising off, so I guess in his mind it is resulved.

    he has failed to address the concerns over yet another Display Manager

    he failed to address issues over the FUD Canonical originally posted about Wayland, when they decided to drop it.

    Shuttleworth practices a very nasty form of Corporate ethics, he reframes the argument, then argues for or against that. This is dishonest.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is typical Shuttleworth rhetoric

      > Shuttleworth practices a very nasty form of Corporate ethics, he reframes

      > the argument, then argues for or against that. This is dishonest.

      Absolutely agree, but this is nothing new. Shuttleworth doesn't give a damn about Linux, or choice, or Free and Open Source Software. These are just tools to make him richer than he already is. He doesn't care about the Linux developer community, either. These developers are just naive individuals to be exploited, again, for his own profit.

      The mitigating factor in all this is that Ubuntu has stopped being relevant years ago. At this point it's just a mediocre copy-cat with some unusual add-ons. If Ubuntu disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't make a bit of a difference.

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      1. keithpeter Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Windows

        Re: This is typical Shuttleworth rhetoric

        "These developers are just naive individuals to be exploited, again, for his own profit."

        Canonical may not be actually making a profit as yet, and, to be fair to Shuttleworth, there is the Shuttleworth Foundation, the Ubuntu Foundation and a shed load of charity work in SA. He is not your average coke and broads capitalist.

        But. Check out Sam Spilsbury's blog...

        "My theory is this. As the breadth of the audience that you are trying to reach goes up, your community participation and involvement goes down. And then if it really is that this is the rule rather than the exception, then I think it is impossible to achieve the goals of “deliver free software to the masses” and “make it built entirely be a passionate and active community of volunteers” at the same time."

        Thoughtful lad, I don't know him at all, but seems to have his head screwed on. Sam is a major programmer involved with compiz, a display compositor that has a plug-in called Unity. He was (apparently) in a bad place some time ago...

        http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2011/12/25/apology-2/

        You might imagine that Canonical came running to support Compiz as it is a major foundation for Unity. Not sure what happened 'bout that. Anyone any ideas?

        The tramp: that is about as much use as I'd be as a programmer.

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Canonical

    Ok, I'm putting on a suit of Armour here, but I bloody LOVE Xubuntu. It's a cracking tool of an OS, built on Deb, tweaked by Canon, and then tweaked again with XFCE.

    I use it on my laptop every day when here in Gibraltar I have to go deal with issues. The XFCE interface is quick and tidy, and Can# have done some nice work under the bonnet. I can find what I need quickly, easily, and it works. It takes me less time, so I end up billing clients less. I can see more clients in a day so I've lost no profit.

    On 2 sites now, I have Terminal Server delivering to XUbuntu Linux clients over rdesktop, and a third site using Mint. Xubuntu causes me less call outs.

    I'm with Mark on this, I think the guy has a bloody good idea. Also, it's working for me as an engineer. I once wrote an article that got slashdotted, where I argued Linux needed a killer game to make it into the desktop. I was wrong. Linux ITX boards can so host happily RDesktop or Citrix sessions, that makes it viable in the offide. We have proved it in Gibraltar. The games, I'll leave that to Valve, they seem on the case.

    For me, Linux on the desktop is here. It's what we run on it that will be interesting

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  4. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

    The dialogue needs to get a tad more constructive..

    I see a classic techie vs user gap here, which has led to UI decisions of which I can see the strategic sense, but which lack a tactical path to full implementation that users can actually follow.

    First off, Mark has a vision. It may not be so well articulated that mere end users and coders can work with, but it doesn't just exists, I think it's fairly comprehensive as well. I talked to Mark in 2010 or so (could even be 2009), and tablets were just showing up in the market. Even then, Mark saw mobile computing as the future instead of tablets, and as far as I can tell he was right.

    The main problem is that people who are strong on tech tend to be less involved with the end user, and if Linux wants to succeed it needs to win that audience. At the moment, the choice that many tech people so cherish is exactly a barrier for end users who lack a basis for making that choice, which is one of the good things that Ubuntu originally did: it created a single brand that end users actually liked (well, at least the colour blind ones :) ).

    However, we have a user base that has been brought up on MS marketing, and people dislike change - you need to take that slowly. The picture that needs to be sold to end users sees is composed out of 3 parts:

    • a kernel that must make sure that all the gear works in a PC (an issue Apple has neatly avoided). This is not under Ubuntu control, but device support matters.

    • an OS that provides the mechanism to interface with the end user. Here Linux *really* has a mess as there are too many desktops. In my experience, people trying to switch from Windows tend to feel comfortable with a KDE variant as most of its elements work virtually identical to Windows. This is where Unity was IMHO a bridge too far - too much, too soon.

    • applications that perform the same functions as the Microsoft equivalents. There is a massive omission there which keeps people on Windows: Outlook.

    The "Linux" picture for end users is composed out of all three. Leave any part out and you will not have the package to convert people, and you need to do that first before you progress to corporate and volume deployment.

    Like it or leave it, but with Mark back in the picture Ubuntu is the only distro that has strong leadership in place. If said leadership could be convinced to widen his viewpoint to enable dialogue with end users it still could return to a prominent position. In my opinion, Mint taking over as "preferred" distro should have been a wake up call, let's hope Mark heard it.

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  5. Charles Manning

    Sound Ballmerish

    "We're in the dominant position so just STFU and drink deeply of our KoolAid."

    Even though most Ubuntu customers don't pay anything, they are still customers and behave as such. Piss them off enough and they will find an alternative. It is a bit of a hassle to switch distro, so once they've shifted they won't come back.

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    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Sound Ballmerish

      It is a bit of a hassle to switch distro, so once they've shifted they won't come back.

      Well, not unless the alternative recovers and goes one better. I think that's a Very Good Thing - competition works. I just hope Mark Shuttleworth has actually picked up that message.

      Ubuntu did a number of very good things (that's why it became a favourite distro) and there are many more good things to be done, provided they learn lessons along the way. It's of course easy to argue with hindsight, but whatever goal Ubuntu is reaching for with Unity must be clearer articulated instead of the current "our way or the highway" impression people get. That doesn't just annoy developers, it also sucks for end users and like it or not, that's really an explicit goal for a Linux desktop: volume. Only then do you have any leverage to convince manufacturers to pay more attention to Linux as a hardware platform, OEMs to forego the Microsoft tax and pre-install Linux and companies to start considering it viable for mass deployment.

      In short, I think they need to think a bit more about their perceived audience. I've said this about a gazillion times: unless you consider your end user, you cannot do a good IT job. Ubuntu/Canonical is not excluded from that. IMHO, of course, happy to debate that point :)

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  6. h3

    I don't really care whether it is hard or easy as long as it works in the standard way that UNIX was originally designed to work. (Changing it would be possible but it would have to be another level in terms of quality and for it to be worth it).

    Plan9 probably was that level but people didn't choose to use it.

    Now we are in the situation where powershell 3.0 is almost more unix like than the mess that the GNU userland is.

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  7. Shannon Jacobs
    Holmes

    Former fan of Ubuntu recovers from being turned into a newt

    First, my claim for street cred: Used to like Ubuntu and used it a lot. Even ran it native on a couple of machines and still running it on three machines in VMs. I have one ancient machine that runs an old version of Ubuntu native, but the same machine still has a live application running in DOS, shmg. (Please.)

    One of the main reasons I liked Ubuntu was that I believed it had potential to make Linux into a mainstream OS for large numbers of users. I fantasized that Ubuntu could increase human freedom by providing a viable option to Microsoft and Apple.

    Ubuntu went the wrong way and its evolution became devolution. It's challenge to become a contender become a joke. The learning curve INCREASED, the intuitiveness DECREASED, and I can no longer recommend Ubuntu to anyone. Ubuntu turned into a newt and there are no signs of recovery.

    I think this is because the financial model is wrong. Whatever bad things you want to say about Microsoft and Apple, I bet I can say worse, but the bottom line is that there financial models WORK.

    There are several open source financial models in use, and all of them reek like a big dog's m0e. One is for beginning programmers to take a vow of poverty while doing what they want, with the result that they lose interest or develop marketable skills. In either case, they almost always move along. The Ubuntu model is the big-donor charity, which requires two things: A donor with big enough pockets and that the donor not make too many bad decisions. Not sure about Shuttleworth's pockets, but his decisions have gotten worse and worse, and that is why Ubuntu is just a sad joke these days.

    I think we OBVIOUSLY need new kinds of business models. What I want is a kind of charity stock market where I could buy virtual shares in various projects. Possible examples: (1) A new feature for an OS. (2) An improved version of an existing program. (3) Continued support for an older program. (4) Anything you imagine here. If enough small donors agree, then the project gets the money.

    This financial model may remind you of Kickstarter, IndyGoGo, or Crowdrise (though it predates my ever hearing of those websites. The difference is that I think this charity brokerage should provide project management support for such things as: (1) Help prepare project description that really covers the costs and requirements of the project. (2) Describe the goals clearly, including the testing. (3) Report on the results of the project in concrete terms of meeting the goals and passing the tests. (4) Give public credit to the donors for their support. (My version of the complete system is still provisionally titled "reverse auction charity shares".)

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    1. Shannon Jacobs
      Reply Icon
      Thumb Down

      Re: Former fan of Ubuntu recovers from being turned into a newt

      c/there financial models/their financial models/

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    2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      You need three things to make it happen.

      I think you're right in seeking a money model, but it's IMHO only part of the picture.

      1 - a relentless customer focus. If you look long term, the idea is VOLUME. Volume means power to make things happen because no manufacturer is going to risk pissing off a large possible client base. This is also why Microsoft is so deadly worried about Linux in general - it has all the tools in place to make a hit go viral in minutes. You do it right, and there simply won't be enough chairs to throw in Redmond :). Caveat: this is not a goal, merely a notable side effect.

      2 - money. This is where your financial model comes in. I'm not sure yours is the right one (I'm the wrong guy to ask), but without dosh this isn't going to happen, partly because you need to create solid continuity as well as accountability. Money helps here, also because you cannot do this without intelligent marketing. There are a few things you can do with Linux that no other OS could come close to, but that needs careful planning.

      3 - Leadership. This is what originally gave me high hopes for Ubuntu - Mark didn't just come equipped with l33t coding skills, he also had a vision and was driving that through. However, I'm not sure what happened, but somewhere along the line this train came off the rails. This may have been Mark doing other things, or not being the right leader, I don't know. But what could have been hasn't happened, or hasn't happened yet and I'm as disappointed as anyone. Maybe it's exactly because he codes himself, and got sucked in by detail - no idea. I have a great deal of respect for Mark as he's one of the good guys IMHO - so maybe I should give him a call and see if can somehow help. He does occasionally listen :).

      I haven't given up on Ubuntu, but they can do better. MUCH better.

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  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm sure glad Kubuntu got a different sponsor

    The guys at Kubuntu are just great. They do fsck things up every now and then, but they've done a great job with what they've been given, and that has been no love from Canonical. Why does Mark want to reinvent the wheel? Does he honestly think that his own idea is better than many minds? Does Mark really think he can top KDE a mainstream bling bling shiny shiny? Pipe dreams. You see KDE is standing on Trolltech/Nokia shoulders - QT is fantastic m(__)m. All the KDE apps are standing on the KDE's shoulders. He wants to start at the display level? From the communication between the Wayland and Mir devs, it sounds like the Ubuntu team don't really know what they are up to. (cringe)

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    1. Lars Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: I'm sure glad Kubuntu got a different sponsor

      I suppose it's about control. Canonical has no control over KDE or Gnome or X, so why not try to do the whole desktop in house. Why not indeed but it's not an easy journey. Good luck all the same.

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  9. jake Silver badge

    So let me get this straight ...

    ... the space cadet tells the fanbois (who built his brand into the most used Linux desktop product) that most of them are wrong, because they liked his product until recently?

    There's a good way to win friends & influence people!

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    1. Shannon Jacobs
      Reply Icon
      Holmes

      An excuse to apologize?

      I should thank you for the space cadet tag or apologize for the other typos in my comments?

      Problem: I don't feel any need for more friends and I don't want to influence people, mostly since I don't like it when people try to influence me. I've come to the conclusion that the world is changing pretty much the way it wants and pretty much at the rate it wants. I'm too old and tired to worry about it much, and I'm just content that the grand long-term average seems to be that the world gradually gets better. The residual nagging problem is that none of us get to live on the average.

      Now for a substantive reply to the only substance in your comment: Small pond, big fish, who cares?

      Or should I apologize again for not writing clearly enough? One of the symptoms of spending too much time in Japan?

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      1. jake Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        That was in reply to mine ... (was: Re: An excuse to apologize?)

        Not sure why. If "Shannon Jacobs" is the space cadet's handle here on ElReg, colo(u)r me clueless ...

        However, assuming otherwise, allow me to explain ... Shuttleworth is the space cadet. He's the bozo who needs to win friends & influence people ... IF he wants his brand to become profitable, that is. He's going out of his way to become hostile to his own fan-base. *buntu users are leaving in droves. It's called "shooting yourself in the foot".

        Think Obama coming out as a Republican in the last US presidential cycle ;-)

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  10. Dana W
    Thumb Down

    So, if I don't like what Ubuntu has become, don't use it. Ok, I won't. But as far as I'm concerned he ruined a resource I loved and used and I don't have to like the fact.

    I used to LOVE Ubuntu. I'd dual boot it on my Macs, laptop and desktop. Till Gnome 3 and Unity made it a mess so rife with restrictions and micromanagement it made my iPad seem flexible. It made dual booting pointless, a way to do less more slowly.

    I don't want my desktop to be a smartphone. Not a Microsoft one OR a Linux one.

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  11. IGnatius T Foobar
    Linux

    Same old tired narrative

    This is the same tired old narrative we've been hearing for two years now. Everyone agrees that Unity is an ugly pile of crap, and Shuttleworth cops an attitude towards anyone who says so.

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  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Agree with Shuttleworth 100%

    I support Shuttleworth's intentions completely. Linux on desktops, tablets, TVs and phones has to be protected from half the Linux community out there. It hasn't been Microsoft which has held back desktop Linux, it's been the rabid half of the Linux crowd itself. Ballmer didn't need to do a thing.

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  13. pete 22
    FAIL

    Somebody needs to remind this clown

    Somebody needs to remind this clown that "ubuntu" is afrikaans for "I can't install debian"

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    1. jake Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Somebody needs to remind this clown

      I thought it was an ancient African word for "Slackware is hard!".

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    2. Anonymous Dutch Coward
      Reply Icon
      Headmaster

      Afrikaans for...

      Ehm, ek kannie Debian installeer nie (of ek weet nie hoe om Debian te installeer nie) would be my best bet ;) [1]

      Still, I agree with the sentiment - Debian just works ;)

      [1] Nee, Afrikaans is nie my moedertaal nie...

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    3. Charles Manning
      Reply Icon

      As a Xhosa speaker....

      Ubuntu is Xhosa (as well as a few other nguni languages [ie very close African languages like Zulu]) and can be loosely translated into "of the people".

      Xhosa-speaking societies tended to be very democratic and included the inputs of all men. Like almost all traditional democracies, the point of view of women was ignored.

      BTW: Since Ubuntu is Xhosa, it should not be pronounced "you-bun-two", but something closer to "ooh-boon-to". And Xubuntu should be pronounced with the Xhosa click : not "ex-you-bun-two", but "<click>-ooh-boon-to"

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  14. Peter Snow
    Meh

    I install Kubuntu for newcomers to Linux

    I have to say that I've never spent more than half an hour playing with Unity. I was convinced pretty quickly that it wasn't right for me. I switched from Gnome to KDE at that time.

    Since then, I've introduced several newcomers to Linux, who came from Windows. For them, I also installed Kubuntu, because the menus, out of the box, work in a way that a Windows user might expect and it should be possible for them to learn to find their own way around.

    I did the same for my wife last week and haven't needed to show her anything yet and she's the kind who can't create message filters in Thunderbird, etc, but no problems with KDE.

    I think overall I'm happy with Ubuntu, so long as nothing comes between it and KDE. I like the stability, I like the fact that most software distributors provide software compiled for it, I'm happy with the vast amount of free and easily installed software in the software center.

    If I were to move to Fedora, for instance, I would lose those benefits. It's beginning to sound though, as if Mark doesn't want KDE users. We'll see.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I install Kubuntu for newcomers to Linux

      You should really stay in touch with the distro you use. Kubuntu is more independent of Ubuntu and Cannonical now. That should help it improve. (http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-to-be-sponsored-by-blue-systems)

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  15. localzuk Silver badge
    FAIL

    Seems to have lost his way

    So, what he's effectively saying is - you lot who helped build this distro up to its success now, we don't want your ideas any more, we've decided what we're doing and that's that.

    You know what other companies that do such things end up doing? Failing miserably. Even Apple. Sure, people bought into the Apple coolaid for a while, but now? People are starting to drift away, as they don't see reasons to stay with them.

    Ubuntu could be a great OS. If Canonical stop acting like dictators, listen to their community and adjust course accordingly. Stop trying to unify everything. Interfaces can be different between form factors. People are capable of learning the differences. There is no way on earth someone would want to use a piece of desktop software on a touchscreen, so why would they want to use a touchscreen program on a desktop etc...?

    Why not listen to you community? The people who have actually got you to where you are, rather than deriding them as poisonous? Such comments drive people away... For example, I no longer use Ubuntu as it just doesn't suit for any of my use cases or recommendations to people any more.

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    1. Lars Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: Seems to have lost his way

      Oh please, be reasonable.

      "acting like dictators", "why not listen to you community".

      Have you ever thought of how many different opinions and whining there is in this community.

      What Canonical is saying is that they have to keep the helm (what ever choice would there be).

      And that if it feels to bad for somebody then just do as you "I no longer use Ubuntu as it just doesn't suit for any of my use cases".

      Why is this so hard to understand and accept, and what the hell have you expected.

      I am not a Ubuntu user, never was, but there is no denying that Ubuntu has done a lot for the "linux desktop".

      Ubuntu is now trying to do a Ubuntu desktop less dependent of whims by Gnome.

      Personally I think the first error Canonical made was to build on Gnome and not on KDE from the start.

      But as you know KDE have had their not so popular whims too.

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  16. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Dictator in Chief

    That's not a blog, that's a loop of "I know better" in various thin disguises. What a dick.

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  17. Mr Spock
    Facepalm

    Mark...

    ... if you really want to be the new Microsoft, you're going to have to learn how to insult your community while making them think you're actually praising them.

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  18. Goat Jam
    Pint

    I don't know why Shutt's has risen up now from his slumber to spray his vitriol around the Linux community but really I don't see the issue here.

    Sure, I had adopterd Ubuntu ever since Redhat went all "Enterprise" on us, but then I never was comfortable with the rpm system.

    I was happy for several years on Ubuntu until Unity became de rigueur, at which point I must admit I got a bit upset about having my comfort interrupted.

    Even now I blame the guys at Gnome for this, and not Canonical, who I believe panicked when they saw what an utter debacle Gnome 3 would be.

    Anyway, my discomfort was short lived after I decided to convert all my machines to Mint.

    Initially, I had some trouble deciding whether to go Mate or Cinnamon until I decided to go Cinnamon at home and Mate at work and thereby monitor developments on both until such a time that I determined that I prefer one over the other.

    Nowadays, if I ever find that I am getting upset by the whole Gnome3 / Unity disaster I remind myself that at least with open source I was able to move on to something that suited me.

    The same cannot be said for those poor sods who get saddled with Windows 8.

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  19. MrMur

    It's his party...

    ...and he can cry if he wants to.

    Actually, I don't blame MS trying to making some money out of Ubuntu because he must have lost a shit-load on it so far. I can't imagine it is financially viable forever on support contracts alone. I don't think the Amazon thing was a good route to go, or at least have it off by default or a "switch it on to support ubuntu" at first install. For any commercial organisation, I would imagine that feature is a big turn off.

    As for Unity, I think its okay after a month of teeth gnashing (I have the bar locked to the side). Plus how many other vendors can offer the same codebase and experience over PC, tablet and phone. I do see the vision but accept its come with great pain.

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  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I come to bury Ubuntu, not to praise it.

    Way to go Mark, from regular holder of the top spot on distrowatch, down to third. Seems to be headed for obscurity rather than a contender for the mainstream.

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    1. MrWibble
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: I come to bury Ubuntu, not to praise it.

      Distrowatch rankings mean the square root of cock all in the real world though.

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  21. Jon Green
    Facepalm

    I'd love to "find something interesting to improve"...

    ...but I don't think Canonical would accept a patch that annihilated Unity and replaced it with a workspace that works nicely on a screen considerably bigger than a tablet's.

    If they _really_ want to support a full range of devices, they could start by not forcing them all to behave like an Ubuntu wristwatch.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re:a patch that annihilated Unity

      There is one already. It's called MATE.

      Actually, there are lots, but even without installing the _buntu that comes with the desktop of your choice, you can still install it instead of (and even as well as) Unity.

      Die, Unity, Die!

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      1. Connor
        Reply Icon

        Re: Re:a patch that annihilated Unity

        For every open source fork there is great fanfare and multiple pointing out this being one of the great things about FOSS, followed two years later by an appeal for someone else to take over. Mate and cinnamon et al are likely to be dead ends in a few years, do you really want to be using software that is no longer maintained? Unity and Gnome3 clearly aren't going anywhere, there will be no re-merging, no superseding Unity/Gnome3 so that means someone has to carry on these forks on permanently. I've seen enough open source projects to know that 'No longer maintained' is an inevitability for most projects.

        The reality is, you either have to give in sooner (as I did) or later, and these forks are just delaying the inevitable.

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  22. AlanC

    Leadership is needed but the product has to be right too

    I've been running Ubuntu as my main desktop OS for 4 years now and there is a lot I like about it. In so many ways I feel it's stil the most viable alternative to Windows and OSX and this surely has a lot to do with the strong direction that Canonical have imposed on its development. If Linux is ever to be a serious alternative for the average user, this is the only way it will happen.

    However, with this leadership come - in my opinion - some mistakes. Unlike a lot of people, I don't hate Unity - in fact potentially I like it. What I do hate is all the things that still don't really work properly. On my machine - admitedly three years old but a fairly upmarket and powerful Lenovo Thinkpad - Unity is terribly slow. This is possibly something to do with graphics acceleration or something; I don't know and the point is I really don't want to have to know - I just want it to work properly. Similarly, the fact that the machine often overheats (and shuts down without warning) when doing backups or running VMWare, because the power management doesn't properly control the fan on my machine, undermines the experience badly. I also really dislike the incomprehensible behaviour of Alt-Tab, which is something I think Windows got right about 20 years ago.

    My wife has a MacBook. What impresses me about it is not an amazing UI - it's good but not stunningly better than Ubuntu or even Win 7. What does impress me is the astonishing feeling of solidity and quality it exudes; everything is beautifully crafted, everything works smoothly and reliably, it almost never fails in any way. These things make it a pleasure to use and inspire a feeling of great trust and confidence.

    The best thing Canonical could do with Ubuntu now is to stop trying to functionally change or enhance it, definitely don't waste energy trying to port it to tablets and phones, but just focus all their attention on polishing every little detail and making it work perfectly all the time. Then they'll have a real winner that MS should worry about.

    Like others, I've been starting to notice that Mint looks very attractive. I think I'll install it on a spare disk and try it out but I don't want to swap one set of problems for a different set, so I'm not rushing into switching distro yet.

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    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Boffin

      Re: Leadership is needed but the product has to be right too

      "Similarly, the fact that the machine often overheats (and shuts down without warning) when doing backups or running VMWare, because the power management doesn't properly control the fan on my machine, undermines the experience badly. "

      Which thinkpad? My x200s (4 Gb ram, spinning rust, I don't use VMWare) will run Unity / Ubuntu flavours without the fan issues you report. I agree with mild sluggishness compared to Gnome2/XFCE based wms.

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  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I played with Slackware as a teenager but the system was too immature and so was I. I liked Debian and used it on a number of projects, then I moved to Ubuntu as my main desktop until recently, now I am on Mint and I don't think I have to look back.

    Ubuntu = MySpace

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  24. PAT MCCLUNG

    Clerk

    You crossed Stallman, Mark. You're through.

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  25. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    1337?

    OK, you all know what it means, and I'm fed up with pretending that I do too, whilst desperately searching for a clue.

    1337? WTF?

    Anything like 1066?

    1 1
    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Boffin

      Re: 1337?

      Adolescent sms slang for 'elite' (shortened to 'leet) See wikipedia, or, more entertainingly, read 'Hacker Crackdown' by Bruce Sterling for the culture when networking and the Internet/Web was all new and shiny.

      http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html

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      1. Charles Manning
        Reply Icon

        Re: 1337?

        Anyone that knows this surely can never be taken seriously.

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        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Meh

          Damn. I am now one of those who know, thanks to keithpeter.

          Oh well, I suppose it won't make any difference, as I wasn't taken seriously before!

          But... Do I qualify for the 1337 by having a car with a 710 filler cap?

          0 0
  26. Daniel von Asmuth
    Big Brother

    Shuttleworth versus the community

    Linux is driven by a community with contributions from several commercial parties, and that includes Microsoft, Inc. If you prefer a system driven by the vision of an omnipotent leader, Apple comes to mind.

    0 1
  27. AidanCheddar
    Alert

    Community driven is no different

    "There are lots of pure community distro's. And wow, they are full of politics, spite, frustration, venality and disappointment," he has a point.

    0 0
  28. Scott_Q
    Linux

    Seriously Dude....

    Do you have to become on the verge of being mental as to alienate the developers and users of Ubuntu? Remember Shuttleworth, you're not a major player in the server or retail marketplace. There are far too many options for us. Plus, good luck on your Ubuntu phone.

    0 1
  29. YellowApple

    Shuttleworth's attitude - "screw the community, it's my way or the highway, but I'm going to pretend to act in the community's interest while ignoring any and all mistakes ever made by Canonical" - is precisely the reason why I have switched away from Ubuntu after having been a rather happy Ubuntu user since 2007. If I need something compatible with Ubuntu, I have Mint; for everything else, there's Debian or Slackware.

    Unity was a mistake compared to the simpler GNOME2 interface. Canonical doesn't care.

    Amazon integration in main search rather than a separate Lens was a mistake. Canonical doesn't care.

    Canonical has evolved into a Flanderized wannabe of Apple, and for the makers of Ubuntu to turn their backs on the very concept of "ubuntu" is disturbing.

    0 0
  30. Camilla Smythe
    FAIL

    Shuttleworth goes for 'vendor' lock in

    Having finished with 'Ubuntu' at 10.04.4, trying 12.04 and, buying a new graphics card so it would work, then getting bored with it and Unity....

    So I tried Mint 13 at least 13 times and actually I do not need the shit that is known as Linux gives me.

    I have Googled for solutions to my experience and all I find is blind fucking over the blind 'Meh' followed by more 'Meh' and all of it is 'terminal Meh' whereby it does not work.

    Not There

    Can't do that

    Hah Hah Hah. Does not work again. Meh... Fuck You.

    If I wanted that I would try Slackware. Perhaps I should...

    Unfortunately, for me, I am a Luser. 10.04 gave me 'bish bosh bash', pun not intended. 12.04 gave me a 'vision' I did not want. If I try to move 'somewhere else' everything is unbelievably fucked down at the Meh, Fuck You level.

    Now before you wave your geekdom willy about the place keep it out of my face. I do not need your shit I just want a simple transition.

    Until Linux and the shits who layer shit on top of it can offer that then it is fucked.

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