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A study carried out by psychology researchers in Sweden has shown that people who go into engineering are less caring and empathetic than those who enter professions such as medicine. Chato Rasoal and his colleagues determined this by surveying 200 students from six different study programs, using a "well-established …

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        1. Nigel 11
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          Alert

          Re: Engineers often simply lack understanding of emotional situations

          comparable in empathy to either cockroaches or starving wolves

          An apology to wolves, please! They are extremely empathetic creatures, and not only to members of their own species.

          A remarkable documentary I once watched showed what happened when scientists flew into the remotest wilds of Northern Canada to study wolves that had never before encountered human beings. What happened in one season was remarkable. The Wolves were neither hostile nor frightened. They were curious. Within a few months they had co-opted the scientists into their pack, and the alpha female was leaving her cubs for the humans to watch over.

          A wolf, and man's best friend the dog, are the same species. It's very obvious how that got started. I'm afraid that it's my own species that too often comes up short on the intrinsic empathy score-sheet.

          By the way, many large cities in both Europe and the USA now have urban wolves as well as urban foxes. AFAIK children eaten by urban wolves to date, zero. (Ditto urban mountain lions, which are potentially even more of a nightmare!).

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          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Reply Icon
            Happy

            Re: Engineers often simply lack understanding of emotional situations

            "By the way, many large cities in both Europe and the USA now have urban wolves as well as urban foxes. AFAIK children eaten by urban wolves to date, zero. (Ditto urban mountain lions, which are potentially even more of a nightmare!)."

            But watch out for the urban badgers.

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    2. Marshalltown
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      Re: Engineers often simply lack understanding of emotional situations

      Sales people need to be able to lie convincingly, like lawyer and politicians. Engineers are simply pragmatic.

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    3. Lusty
      Reply Icon
      Childcatcher

      Re: Engineers often simply lack understanding of emotional situations

      Sales people are not evil....would you like a baby? what colour/size? I can get you a great deal but only until Friday at noon...

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    4. chris 233
      Reply Icon

      Re: Engineers often simply lack understanding of emotional situations

      >> Sales 'people' on the other hand are actually evil. Truely dead inside and would happily eat a baby if there was

      >> margin in it.

      Surely you mean marketing droids? Or legal?

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  2. lightknight
    Holmes

    *facepalms*

    Just...wow.

    There are so many things wrong here, I don't even

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    1. solidsoup
      Reply Icon

      Re: *facepalms*

      Quite an emotional response. Are you a doctor or a computer tech?

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      1. TRT Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: *facepalms*

        Please express the force of your facepalm in kilopascals.

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        1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
          Reply Icon
          Joke

          Re: *facepalms*

          "Please express the force of your facepalm in kilopascals."

          I think Norrises per nanoWales is the accepted unit here

          Not that I care

          5 2
          1. fch
            Reply Icon
            Flame

            Re: *facepalms*

            ... let's see if a proper flamewar on units of measurement and/or the value of welsh oppression measured in metric will prove once and for all that nerdy engineering people have just as strong feelings as everyone else !

            Does the paper at the very least provide properly error-corrected measurements for emotional suppression in units of mmHg ?

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            1. TRT Silver badge
              Reply Icon
              Boffin

              Re: *facepalms*

              Typical engineering response to determine the measure of public opinion that is; build an emotional barometer. I think their case is proved!

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              1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
                Reply Icon
                Happy

                Re: *facepalms*

                It is equally typical for non-engineers not to get these jokes

                Engineers and non-engineers are simply two nations separated by a common language

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        2. cortland
          Reply Icon
          Windows

          Re: *facepalms*

          Slugs/ft , preferably. Per second.

          Bam! Bam! Bam!

          3, (writing) ... Bam! Bam! 2, ...

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  3. Semaj
    Meh

    Software Developers

    Ah but the difference with us is that we start out happy and optimistic then after 5 years or so in the industry, once enough coffee has been consumed and enough DailyWTFs have been observed; we become bitter, sarcastic, cynical bastards.

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    1. Lyle Dietz
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      Re: Software Developers

      It took you 5 years? I don't think I lasted 5 months!

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    2. stanimir
      Reply Icon

      Re: Software Developers

      However, the study is on 'students', so no such observations as 5 years in the industry. Admittedly the results might have differed (i.e. being more interesting) analyzing seasoned professionals rather than 'students'.

      OTOH, according my girlfriend sarcastic/cynical/arrogant doesn't necessary equal cold/dead inside.

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      1. Psyx
        Reply Icon
        Stop

        Stop Press: People who like to be left alone with machines less empathic than 'caring professions'

        "However, the study is on 'students', so no such observations as 5 years in the industry. Admittedly the results might have differed (i.e. being more interesting) analyzing seasoned professionals rather than 'students'."

        Yeah...because after 5 years in the industry, we're all fscking happy-clapping hippies who don't wish death on users on a daily basis.

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    3. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Software Developers

      >become bitter, sarcastic, cynical bastards.

      That are symptoms for burn-out

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    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Software Developers

      I think it's telling that the study was about students.

      The actual sugeons and medical researchers i know (i.e. in the industry for a few years) can take it up with most engineers in terms of sarcasm, nihilism etc.

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      1. cortland
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        Coat

        Re: Software Developers

        Nihilism is a zero-sum philosophy.

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    5. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Software Developers

      [anon just before]

      Probably should have added that i work in medical device industry where these fields come well into contact.

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  4. wowfood

    Dead on the inside?

    Maybe I got into the wrong area on engineering, because I'm pretty sure I fall under the 'classic' category by their definitions.

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  5. MooseMonkey
    Mushroom

    Die non-engineering scum

    The whole reason I did solid state optoelectronics engineering degree is to I could make Laser Glasses to kill off all non engineers. b*stard Google have now ruined my fun.

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  6. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Wonder how that compares to what UI/OS you use?

    **** Warning: this is a joke. If you get riled by any of this then you are getting what you deserve! ****

    Linux with KDE: Like a kid in a sweetstore and just as hyper. "Give me the SHINY!"

    Linux with Gnome 2 and clones: Critical parents.

    Linux with Gnome 3: Trick cyclists

    Linux with XFCE: Enigmatic

    Apple OS X: Narcissistic

    Windows Vista: Masochist

    Windows XP: Miss Havisham complex.

    Windows 8: Past caring/given up on life.

    Windows 7: Happy in their own little world and will NEVER read the news in case something disturbs them.

    **** End of warning. You may now close your Links browser ****

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    1. Gonzo_the_Geek
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      Re: Wonder how that compares to what UI/OS you use?

      What about us poor geeks who use Linux + Xmonad? What are we?

      Mine's the one with the plastic pocket protector...

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      1. Anonymous Coward
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        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wonder how that compares to what UI/OS you use?

        Attention seeking. :)

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    2. Bronek Kozicki
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      Go

      Re: Wonder how that compares to what UI/OS you use?

      I run Windows 7 and, at the same time, Debian with command line interface only. Hm, that actually fits well into someone not following the news ...

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    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Linux with Gnome 2 Clone

      Narcissistic --- my desktop is configured just exactly how I want it. Must be a reflection of me.

      Miss Havisham complex --- the base model is the one introduced way back, by Win98/2000.

      SHINY --- I have a dose of that too, courtesy of Compiz and Emerald.

      Unity? Eurgh! Gnome Shell? What is that? --- Yes, above all, I live in my own little world...

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    4. Mephistro
      Reply Icon
      Joke

      Re: Wonder how that compares to what UI/OS you use?

      You forgot:

      IOS: Small penises, but can't allow to buy an expensive sports car.*

      *: See the caveat in the parent comment

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  7. Sir Runcible Spoon
    Coat

    Sir

    What about those of us who started out in Electronics, but switched to computing?

    Also, isn't it 'empathic' ?

    Don't bother answering, I couldn't give a toss what the answer is.

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  8. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Holmes

    Am I bothered?

    Is this my bothered face?

    Sounds like a candidate for this years (Ig)Nobel prize.

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    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Am I bothered?

      That or the "Scientists Now Know" section of Annals of Improbable Research

      I should send them my paper on Creativity - Bureaucracy Decay Studied by Pasta - Antipasta Collision Experiments, but I haven't yet got round to making up some data to put in the plots

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    And it

    took a study to work this out!!!!!

    Go talk to your local "in-house" IT bod, tell him you cant access your email...

    See how many fucks he gives...

    I am a souless, cold, emotionless empty hearted bastard who doesn't give a crap as to what happens to anyone except immediate family/frieds/big walleted customers...

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  10. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Really?

    Or is it that engineers, being devoted to what is real and measurable and having a passion for truth and exactness, will fill in the questionnaire honestly. Whereas the rest will fill it in according to how they think they ought to be?

    And the truth is that most people have little empathy with others?

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    1. Don Jefe
      Reply Icon

      Re: Really?

      For those of us who are actual engineers (not just those that get the title as part if their job description) we learn that the humanities are a third of the triumvirate that makes up the discipline. You cannot be a successful engineer if you aren't willing to acknowledge and accept the human component in every project.

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  11. TeeCee Gold badge
    Mushroom

    New research shows....

    ....that psychiatrists get a big kick out of picking on some group of people and slagging them off in the press.

    You want to know who the real bastards are lads? Try looking in the mirror.

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  12. Corinne
    Unhappy

    Doctors caring & empathetic?

    2 of the most inhuman & non-empathetic people I ever met were surgeons.

    I remember being warned by a nurse before I saw one of them to try to ignore his curt manner & lack of any consideration for emotional matters before I went in to see him - apparently he was renowned for it (though a very good surgeon).

    The other was a revered consultant at a teaching hospital. He would do his rounds without ever actually speaking to his patients, only to the students. Not even a "how are you feeling today" commentl.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

      Agreed. Was in for a throat checkup due to some issues and the guy was curt, insulted me straight in the face, treated me like livestock. So yeah... Doctors... with a few exceptions... very uncaring and unemphatic.

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      1. dogged
        Reply Icon

        Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

        My better half is an anesthetist. Give me one good reason why she should care more about you than a car mechanic does about your shitty Fiesta?

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        1. nichomach
          Reply Icon
          Thumb Down

          Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

          Because she gets paid a metric fuckton more than a mechanic. Because human beings are generally assumed to be a little more important than cars. Because humans actually do have feelings and can be hurt whereas cars can only be broken or fixed. However, I would note that as an anaesthetist it's somewhat unlikely that she'll actually have to deal with people in any state other than unconsciousness (unless she screws up, in which case, hey, Adomako here we come), so she'll probably be able to go through her entire career without it being an issue.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAymSVW_UIM

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          1. dogged
            Reply Icon
            FAIL

            Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

            Because she gets paid a metric fuckton more than a mechanic.

            Not really. Mechanic wages go at about £25/hour + VAT. She only earns more than that on locum overtime, which is above and beyond existing hours. You know, the ones involving 13 hour on-call shifts, lates, earlies, weekends, nights... not many mechanics work those.

            A doctor has a responsibility to treat your illnesses, not your sensitive ickle feelings.

            Also, fuck you.

            3 14
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

              I think you miss the point that the illness spectrum shades off into all sorts of things. Given the importance of the placebo effect - even with local anaesthesia - paying attention to sensitive ickle feelings can save a lot of time, money and unnecessary surgical interventions.

              Mind you, if you are an engineer or a scientist, it helps if your GP understands that you just want the facts to make a decision based on his medical assessment and don't need any reassuring. My GP gets this. He happily gives me numbers rather than waffle, and I treat him like a professional. We get on well.

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            2. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

              re: anesthetists - Actually get paid well, as it's one of the most critical roles in the room. Keeping a patient under, while keeping them alive is relatively tricky, and getting them under and back up again even more so. The better the anesthetist, the less the patient feels like death afterwards. I've been lucky in that all of mine have been good.

              Re: inhuman robots, it's the GP's in the firing line for me. I have referred my own 2x now, not just because he has the personal skills of a well-used toilet brush, but is also utterly incompetent. More concerned with "throughput" than actually healing anyone.

              Take his last stunner: upon being "summoned" to his office, he didn't offer a seat, eye contact or even acknowledge I had entered the room. His first word was "Well...?", then proceeded to misdiagnose tonsilitus as a "only a sore throat, and that i should think carefully about wasting his time next time". Went to the doctor across the hall later that afternoon, who immediately recognised it, and prescribed anti-bios. Stunning.

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              1. cortland
                Reply Icon

                Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

                My Dad was in the USAF when an anesthetist acquaintance once said that that was "someone who sits on a soft stool and passes gas."

                Count backwards from one...

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            3. Peter2 Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

              Under life and death pressure you basically have but two options. Detach yourself from your emotions to get the job done or allow your emotions to be battered, shattered, bruised and abused causing you to emotionally explode under extreme pressure,

              Emotionally exploding under pressure when somebodies life is in your hands means that person will die. This knowledge does not usually help you to remain calm and in an emotional position to reassure the patient.

              I know this, and i'm just a First Aider who has contrived to be in the wrong place at the wrong time a couple of times.

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            4. JEDIDIAH
              Reply Icon
              Linux

              Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

              It sounds like it sucks to be a (quasi)doctor in the UK. Ha-zah for socialized medicine.

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          2. Blitheringeejit
            Reply Icon
            FAIL

            Re: Metric Fuckton

            Surely we need this expressed in a Reg standard unit of some kind - but a quick check of the online converter suggests that we are missing both a unit of currency, and a unit of non-specific comparativeness.

            This is a major oversight which needs urgent attention from our Regist overlords - lest there be revolution.

            Is it really only Monday? Oh bugger...

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        2. hplasm
          Reply Icon
          Meh

          Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

          "My better half is an anesthetist..."

          And your other half posts on here...

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          1. dogged
            Reply Icon

            Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

            I'm definitely worse, yes.

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        3. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Doctors caring & empathetic?

          Screw up a car repair and it can be replaced, money can be refunded etc.

          Screw up a medical procedure and you can kill someone. You can't bring back the dead.

          Honestly, with attitudes like that it is no wonder the NHS pay out so much money in compensation (£1.2 billion).

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