back to article Fans of dead data 'liberator' Swartz press Obama to sack prosecutor

A new online petition has called for the firing of US attorney Carmen Ortiz for pursuing Aaron Swartz with charges that could have put him in prison for at least three decades. Meanwhile, Democrat congresswoman Zoe Lofgren has drawn up a new bill called "Aaron's Law" to amend the US Computer Fraud and Abuse Act used to …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "evidence" in an attempt to get a guilty plea and so avoid a failed prosecution. The "guilty" party will cop to a lesser plea rather than go to jail for 30years for jaywalking.

      Yeah, except supposedly in this case the prosecutor specifically rejected that. The govt didn't WANT a plea - they wanted him to go down for the maximum sentence, which would have suggested that his unauthorized downloads were worse than serial rape, stabbing someone to death, armed robbery, a string of assaults and muggings, embezzling tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, etc etc.

      What he did was, as far as I can tell, an absurd exercise in tilting at windmills. But you shouldn't get 35 years for damaging the windmill.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > except supposedly in this case the prosecutor specifically rejected that.

        The prosecutor has expressly denied that, but what the hell. It's more fun believing the tabloids than the truth. Can't have a good ole boy rant against the guvmint if we have to believe the truth, hey?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          "The prosecutor has expressly denied that, but what the hell. It's more fun believing the tabloids than the truth."

          That would be a good point, if I'd read the prosecutor's statement when I posted. As it is, I qualified my statement precisely because I wasn't sure it was the case, and I dislike jumping to conclusions. If you'd read any of my other posts, you'd notice that I'm usually flamed for defending the US gov't rather than the opposite - unusual for a "good 'ol boy", as you so confidently term me, particularly one who produces progressive trance and watches Formula One.

          I later even came close to posting a defense of said prosecutor based on the statement you reference, but ironically (and unusually) decided against it in the interest of retaining my recent form with thumbses-upses.

          In the end, despite my disappointment in the failure of my attempted diplomatic writing, I am left more amused than sad due to the delightful irony: a critic assailing me for jumping to conclusions and being a tabloid-reading redneck actually went off half-cocked -himself-, resulting not only in his being wrong but also in accusing a road-racing, dance-music-making, Economist-reading atheist Jewish liberal of being an anti-government hillbilly.

          Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to load mah shotgun. Got a bathtub full a hooch ta look after, and tain't no indoor plumbin' here so the tub's in the yard bah the toy-a-let, an some nasty critters out ther gonna git ya if'n they's had a drink or two, ha ah haw haw haw! ...Hayup.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @A.N Other

      "I believe in the UK, that sentences are either set by statute or at the discretion of the presiding Judge and not by the prosecution (ie the DPP).:

      Oh just like here! Your ignorance prevents you and many other stupid people in this thread from understanding that the judge has statutes and sentencing guidelines that he must follow when handing down sentence, and does not function as a rubber stamp for the USDA. And that anyone who thinks that any judge would have sentenced him to full length of time to which he was liable because the USDA demanded it, is just showing their ignorance.

    3. Tom 13

      Re: It would seem sentences are political in the US

      Sentence in the US are as a-political as sentences in the UK.

      Prosecutors don't set sentences, Judges do, based on both statutory dictates and prevailing attitudes. And that happens only IF a civilian jury finds him guilty. Assuming sentence is passed, there are still multiple paths to appeal the conviction and the sentence. After or concurrent with those appeals you may also request either Executive leniency or pardon. Prosecutors ALWAYS ask for the maximum sentence possible (possible being defined only in the mind of the prosecutor) because the Defense will always be arguing for none.

  1. Toadkiller

    It seems that prosecutors are always more interested in "The Win" than what is right/just.

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      So are defense lawyers, it's what they're paid for after all. The job of a prosecutor is to prosecute, it's up to judge and jury to decide on the right/just issue.

  2. Stevie

    Bah!

    You guys *are* aware that in this case there was a physical breaking and entering part to the crime, aren't you? This wasn't someone sitting at home with a pizza and an open server port.

    The individual was depressed, yes, but it isn't the prosecutors job to make sure they get medical care during a prosecution. That was the job of those who "care" about this man, most of whom discovered they care a lot more now he's dead than when he was alive.

    At first I was outraged by this story, but it has become clear from listening to his own legal representative speak that there was no "hounding" or "stalking" element to this case, merely the routine grinding of the legal wheels.

    The real tragedy here is that yet another individual was brought abruptly into the real world after apparently thinking he could break the law with impunity. For a clever man (and from all accounts he was certainly that) he seems to have had a shockingly distant "consequence horizon".

    1. vagabondo
      Thumb Down

      Re: Bah!

      You guys *are* aware that in this case there was a physical breaking and entering part to the crime, aren't you?

      Where exactly was the breaking and entering? My understanding is that the activity in question took place on an open campus, using an open network. By using a battery powered device he cannot even be accused of stealing electricity.

      What he seems to have done is gone to a library (that he was a member of), and drawn the attention of the security staff by looking at (not taking away) a whole lot more books than is usual. Security called the local police. While he was being questioned, the matter was brought to the attention of the librarians, who on consideration decided that he was being a nuisance, but not causing any harm and should be sent on his way with a request not to do it again. They did not apparently even ask to revoke his library ticket. The cops were annoyed at their time being wasted, so decided that they would charge him with something to justify their existence and have something exciting to put on their time-sheets. Government had created a pile of draconian catch-all anti-terrorist, copyright and computer-crime laws designed to be efficacious in every case. So they used those. The Procurator Fiscal, or whatever the chief jobsworth is called, needs to relegated to a position where she can cause less harm and embarrassment.

      1. John Deeb
        Boffin

        Re: Bah!

        If the library checkout would be the analogy of choice, perhaps it's more accurate to say that a visitor found a way to briefly check out all books in the library (a few million). Since the books were returned immediately and only just ran through a giant xerox copier in the back of a parked truck perhaps, the library didn't press charges. The books are safe and still available, they were checked out and returned again according to their rules. But the security was annoyed because of the how this guy got this big truck to stay on the premises, using stealth techniques and changing locations to outsmart the security who was looking for this truck since it had no business staying there and doing god knows what.

        Now we can discuss if illegal parking and avoiding security people looking for it would be the same as actually breaking and entering. This is all about intention and details of the facilities being actually being abused, warnings ignored or security being breached in some way. But clearly it has been treated as a breach, a conscious attempt to avoid security and any rules they would have set for accepted behavior and transport around the premises. And yes, I think by pressing charges this has been made an example to warn the next adventurer who was planning to hide trucks for whatever reason. And yes, it is overkill like it is overkill to hide laptops and disks in dark corners of buildings you visit to get something downloaded.

        1. Turtle

          @John Deeb

          "If the library checkout would be the analogy of choice, perhaps it's more accurate to say ..."

          If you want to be more accurate, why not just get rid of the analogies. Because attaching your computer to someone else's network is not like borrowing books from a library.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bah!

        > Where exactly was the breaking and entering? My understanding is that the activity in question took place on an open campus, using an open network.

        Read the indictment. He is alleged to "break into a restricted computer wiring closet at MIT", not to mention repeatedly spoofing the addresses on his PC to work around the MIT attempts to lock him out.

        To take your library analogy, the librarians sent him away and changed the code on the library door, whereupon he climbed back in through a window and continued to remove books.

    2. Vic

      Re: Bah!

      > You guys *are* aware that in this case there was a physical breaking and entering part to the crime, aren't you?

      No, I'm not.

      There was an allegation of same - and quite a bit of evidence to refute that allegation.

      I'm always one to believe in "innocent unless proven guilty"...

      > after apparently thinking he could break the law with impunity

      It's entirely possible he didn't break a single law. He seems generally to have used resources in ways he was explicitly permitted to.

      Vic.

  3. mIRCat
    Linux

    Carmen Ortiz

    That's one way to make a name for yourself.

    1. vagabondo

      Re: Carmen Ortiz

      Well that rather depends on what that name would be.

  4. Jodo Kast
    FAIL

    A Black Hat Hacker...

    ... who couldn't take the heat.

    What a shame! In over his head and what not!

  5. Mahou Saru

    Judge Dreads Ahoy!!!

    Woah when did it become so popular to act like Judge Dread with so many individuals deciding that Swartz is guilty without it going to court? Especially when the law is open to question and does get amended frequently. If it wasn't for individuals like Swart| then maybe our societies would be something out of 2000AD.

    Anyway I think the big issue isn't to do with individuals such as Swartz for doing what he did, or for Ortiz pushing as hard as she did (maybe she did it for what she thought was right, or maybe she did it to further her own agenda/career).

    I think the problem is large organisations abusing the system to erode the rights of the individual, especially then their actions seem so out of proportion.

    Each step we take as a society, it just seems darker then the last. With the media moguls with their copy right actions, the patent trolls acting like gangsters extorting money, and governments (US and UK) taking away our rights to preserve our "freedom", if it wasn't for people like Swartz then this world would be a much darker place then it is imho.

  6. Daniel B.

    So...

    It had to take Swartz offing himself for someone to actually propose limiting the CFAA so that something exaggerated like this doesn't happen. I hope it doesn't take, say, Jammie Thomas suiciding as well for copyright maddness to be fixed as well!

    Something's wrong when distributing files earns 30 in the slammer + millions in fines, and songs cost $10k each.

  7. Robert Masters
    Meh

    Perverting the course of justice...

    Here in Oz it routinely gets used against corrupt police ... usually following a finding by the courts of false imprisonment, decades after the original conviction.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    More info and opinions here on Aaron Swartz case

    Folks,

    In order to hear some more valid viewpoints on Aaron's so called crime, you should probably read some of the articles here: http://boingboing.net/tag/aaronsw particularly those written by Cory Doctorow and here: http://unhandled.com/2013/01/12/the-truth-about-aaron-swartzs-crime/

    That page is by Alex Stamos who is well known in the cybersecurity business and who was going to testify on Aaron Swartz behalf in his trial.

    In his considered opinion, there was no crime of trespass, nothing was "stolen" and Aaron even returned the documents he had downloaded back to JSTOR who dropped the charges and the Fed's continued the prosecution even though without Jstor pressing charges there can be no further prosecution.

    MIT's network (wired or wireless) was open to all just like free wifi so there was no trespass.

    The Fed's wanted a guilty verdict and the piled on the charges threatening him with sentencing up to 35 years in prison if he did not accept a "guilty" plea of 33 charges but only 6 months in jail.

    This is a common tactic in the US justice system where the cost (both mental and monetary) of fighting such a case will take a toll on the plaintiff to the point where they usually capitulate and take a guilty plea just to be rid of the problem.

    The trouble is that people of principles like Aaron usually don't want to be tagged as guilty when they believe they are not guilty. This wore him down financially and mentally until something broke and he committed suicide.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More info and opinions here on Aaron Swartz case

      You're quoting Cory Doctorow as an authority?!!! We really do need a ROTFLMAO icon.

    2. Stevie

      Re: More info and opinions here on Aaron Swartz case

      "valid" viewpoints? I note you cite the sacred Doctorow and holy Stamos as if they spoke God's Unalloyed Truth yet dismiss the prosecuting attorney as someone "with an agenda".

      Yes there was an agenda. Cyber crime is a serious business in the US. You can hold that the law is an ass and you can work to change it, but if you break it you should expect to take some heat if you are caught. The prosecutor's job is to pursue that agenda with all dispatch and due diligence.

      Before you scream and leap note that neither Doctorow nor Stamos are defending themselves in court for similar crimes. You might infer that they simply have not been caught, but I venture to suggest that while they hold strong views about the nature of Cyber crime, they also recognize that if you break the law and get caught the prosecutor is going to try and get you called to task for it, so they do not engage in such activity (actually I like to imagine that there is such a thing as a "moral compass" that guides people in their day-to-day activities, but so few here are demonstrating one - including the unfortunate Mr Schwartz - I am beginning to suspect I may be laboring under a delusion).

      Perhaps one might further deduce that a more defensible course is to work to overturn or modify those laws with which one disagrees. In this case it is even simpler. All that was required was a policy change by the e-publisher, something that could probably have been achieved by a large enough petition, possibly one that included the names of those holding copyright on the materials in question.

      Once again, the real issue here, that the individual who was known to be a tad flaky (even his own lawyer referred to him as "young" [for his age] in a radio interview two days ago) did not get the support, guidance and help he so obviously needed.

      No, the fact that he was caught between a rock and a hard place didn't help his state of mind, but no-one in the prosecuting team twisted his arm and forced him to commit a crime known to be a particularly sensitive issue in the US if only because of the widespread reporting surrounding the recent "Aspberger Victim" cybercrime case.

      Not every computer whizz-kid is automatically a victim of society for Azathoth's sake. Sometimes they are simply victims of their own hubris, and of cleaving too strongly to a culture that glorifies illegal activity.

      1. Johan Bastiaansen
        Devil

        Re: More info and opinions here on Aaron Swartz case

        You would be a great character in a Kafka book.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Johan Bastiaansen

          "You would be a great character in a Kafka book."

          You'd look good in a cartoon.

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.