back to article New laws to shackle and fine the Press? We've got PLENTY already

Prime Minister David Cameron has expressed "serious concerns and misgivings" over bringing in laws to underpin any new body to regulate the press. Mr Cameron told MPs that legislation backing a regulatory body underpinned by statute would "cross the Rubicon" by writing elements of press regulation into the law for the "first …

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        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It would be lovely to do this in the existing framework

          Actually, Chris, I don't think you'll find that I said anything in favour of "some supervising body run by apparatchiks to dictate to everyone what they can say". In fact, I am very much against anything of the kind.

          Your suggestion that, if I don't like the Mail, I can read the Guardian falls a little short, however. I don't like the Mail, the Guardian, the Sun, the Times, or any other newspaper I have seen recently. (The American ones are no better).

          Occasionally a good article is published, by mistake I presume, in any of the above.

  1. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects

    Remind me which country this is about.

    I don't want to have to read an article based on the politics of a country whose politics I despise.

  2. Big-nosed Pengie
    FAIL

    "In my view the Rubicon has been already crossed and the press are already subject to a statutory framework and a statutory regulator."

    Not working very well, is it.

  3. jake Silver badge

    ::chuckles::

    I find it extremely difficult to take seriously anyone using "crossing the Rubicon" as a simile without actually have made that expedition in person ...

    That includes you "Amberhawk Training" ... whoever you are.

    1. Vic

      Re: ::chuckles::

      I find it extremely difficult to take seriously anyone using "crossing the Rubicon" as a simile without actually have made that expedition in person

      Why?

      The Rubicon was a symbol, not a logistical challenge...

      Vic.

  4. Peter Galbavy
    Black Helicopters

    If you take a step back and look at the sequence of events over the past few years I starts to look a little like there is a big hot potato of corruption being batted between the press and the political elites. If you take the MPs expense revelations as a starting point - because you have to start somewhere even if the story is much older - then you can watch the tennis game playing. First, show up the MPs for the thieving scum, on the whole, that they are. Next some minor skirmishes and then the Milly Dowler story breaking when it very convenient for the anti-press/anti-Cameron layers. Conspiracies? Oh, most certainly. What's a challenge is to try not to look like a complete loonie when claiming is. Like me :)

    Oh, IMHO any press regulation should be limited to offering a statutory (rapid and free or at least affordable) complaints process and fair right-to-reply that enshrines some kind of equitable (i.e. same place, typeface size, inches etc.) published response when things are found to be wrong (not false, just wrong). No limits on what can be published in the first place - that would be chilling.

    1. Peter Galbavy
      Trollface

      Wish I could edit my own typos. Assume that they are typos and not me being an idiot. The two are however not exclusive.

  5. Bluenose

    Nice article but misses the point of Leveson.

    This article is not as strong as its author may wish. Claiming that DPA is a statutory regulation of the press is like claiming that the criminalisation of Burglary is a for of press regulation. Neither laws are designed to control or prohibit the right of the press to publish stories that involve information criminally obtained or which contain personal or even sensitive personal information.

    The issue of the Leveson inquiry relates to the interpretation of the need to underpin the body that investigates press abuses with a statute. This is a key component of the Leveson report and to my mind politicians and sections of the media are twisting this to present a view that this is a means to allow Parliament to constrain or control the actions of the British free press. The reality is that Leveson is right any body set up to regulate the press must be both independent and have real teeth in dealing with those it regulates (past evidence shows that voluntary regulation not only in the press does not work remember all that voluntary regulation around estate agents?).

    What is missing from today's world is the statutory compliance with the rules and regulations of the existing regulatory board (which is made up of newspaper editors), an independent regulatory body (not made up of newspaper editors) and the binding of all the press to the rules of that regulatory body. This does not need to include control of the media just the establishment of a body that does not consist of people who believe that they know (purely on the basis of what will sell a newspaper) what is in the public interest.

  6. nuked
    Megaphone

    Poor article

    There is a massive difference between applying statutes like the Data Protection Act 1998 which contains wholly objective tests applicable to all, and, the giving of power to government to appoint senior members of a new regulator who's job it will be to determine whether the press have satisfied their own tests of 'fit and proper' content and behavious. This is as subjective as it gets, and you CANNOT have that level of proximity between government and the ethical measurement of the press.

  7. Werner McGoole
    Thumb Up

    Constant regulatory FUD is what we need

    If you have lots of laws to control the press, they will, at some point be abused.

    If you don't have lots of laws to control the press, the press will, at some point, abuse that freedom.

    So the solution? It's to have a hotch-potch of laws that no-one understands so they're all scared of doing anything even slightly risky. Most of the population already seems to be well-covered there, but obviously the press aren't.

    So the best way forward, it seems to me, is to introduce huge amounts more FUD into press regulation, so they don't have a clue where they stand.

    So far, everything seems to be on course to achieve that end perfectly. But of course, FUD only lasts so long. After a bit, people find the loopholes in any scheme, so new FUD is required. The bankers were a good example of that. Let's not make the same mistake with the press.

  8. gavpowell

    Even Nick Davies

    Has said he sees no problem with Leveson's idea. At the end of the day, the press have shown 7 times in 70 years that they cannot be trusted to regulate themselves. To the best of my knowledge, no other industry is allowed to "mark its own homework" and the PCC was utterly useless - Desmond walked away from it and there was nothing anyone could do about what he printed in his papers, except an expensive drawn-out private prosecution. Christ, Mrs McCann's diary was published without her consent and the PCC said "Nothing we can do, chief."

    Newspapers are allowed to basically do as they please, with little fear of the consequences, because the "regulator" has no power to impose penalties. I'm quite happy with the idea of a halfway house rather than full statutory control, but any regulator must have the power to punish(on radio4, one tabloid editor laughably suggested that the thing editors fear most is being forced to print an apology, as opposed to a gigantic fine or a prison sentence)

    There needs to be a system whereby ordinary members of the public with a grievance can make a complaint and the publication in question is mandated to explain its actions before a tribunal, after which the complaint can either be upheld and some sort of settlement reached without the need for a full-blown trial, or else the complaint can be dismissed, in which case you either accept it and move on or you seek the full-trial option. You could even moderate that with a clause that says once you agree to enter arbitration, you cannot then bring a separate prosecution through the courts.

    A lot of the tabloid press are keen to tell us that kids these days run riot because there's no discipline "Gone are the days when you could give an errant lout a clip round the ear or a teacher could keep a class in line with the threat of a caning. Typical wishy-washy liberals etc."

    Well the Fleet Street Kids have had 7 warnings now and they're running more riot than ever. Time for them to practise what they preach?

    As to the idea that press regulation ushers in some kind of dictatorship, the Prime Minister can't even get Abu Whatsisname out of the country or keep his expenses under wraps, so how on Earth is he going to manage to get some kind of Supreme Ruler Enabling Act through parliament?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Paper never refused ink

    If you don't like/agree with the press/media don't buy/read/watch it.

    The print oligarchs will disappear eventually.

  10. madick
    Alert

    New Laws already on their way

    Defamation Act 2012-13

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2012-2013/0041/20130041.pdf

    See section 5, subsection 3. Website operators would be obliged to disclose identity of contributors. If a contributor uses a decent proxy server this would not be possible, thus the website operator becomes liable for any defamation. and unspecified (unlimited?) financial penalty.

    A "malicious person" (political activist, state sponsored agent, nutter, etc) could make use of this legislation to bankrupt a website operator, or, for operators outside the UK (Twitter?), the court could force the ISPs to block the websites.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    An earlier post picked up on one of the key issues, what is in 'the public interest'.

    There is a huge difference between what is 'in the public interest' (broadly speaking information that is of benefit to the public/society) and what 'is interesting to the public'.

    This is what the press seem to confuse often. Certainly much of what the press churns out is in the first category (The Telegraph and MPs expenses. The Grauniad and phone hacking) but far far more is in the second category (most if not all of the Red Tops, The Daily Mail and The Express' content) which is used purely to pander to the whims of the reader and encourage circulation.

    Can someone show me where the 'public interest' is in Max Mosley's fondness for a bit of role play or for pictures of Kate M's Jubbs?

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