back to article Design guru: Windows 8 is 'a monster' and 'a tortured soul'

US usability guru Jakob Nielsen has rubbished "disappointing" Windows 8, savaging the Microsoft OS's signature Live Tiles and its complicated gestures. "Windows 8 encompasses two UI styles within one product," he said in a post on his useit website. "Windows 8 on mobile devices and tablets is akin to Dr Jekyll: a tortured soul …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So it's a swipe from the left, and then a move to the right...

        If? What do you mean if? You know for sure he is!

    1. JeffyPooh
      Pint

      Re: So it's a swipe from the left, and then a move to the right...

      "Shift your arm, then you pull it back..." ?

      ♫ Slide your feet up the street Bend your back

      ♫ ♫ Shift your arm then you pull it back ♫ ♫

      Life is hard you know (oh whey oh)

      So strike a pose on a Cadillac... ♫

      ♫ ...Walk like an Egyptian...♫

      Ear worm launched. Sorry...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So it's a swipe from the left, and then a move to the right...

        The discovery of using musical note Unicode characters in a comment post warrants an instant upvote already.

        1. JeffyPooh
          Pint

          Re: So it's a swipe from the left, and then a move to the right...

          ☺ ☂

          Fun stuff.

  1. Mage Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    He is right.

    Jakob Nielsen is very very good. This is really bad for MS.

    I have been reading his "common sense" approach for years. He tells it like it is. He has no axe to grind other than usability.

    Essentially the GUI formerly called Metro is derived from Zune. It's best for a phone, mediocre for a larger than 6" tablet and useless for a Keyboarded device at desk. They also appear to have over-complicated interaction and dumbed the visuals what was a quite good UI on Zune.

    This is exactly to opposite and equally bad as putting the win95 style desktop on a 3.5" phone or PDA. I don't agree with Nielsen though. Two interfaces isn't enough. You need four. One for smallest screens, one for medium tablets and one for mainly Keyboard + mouse desk machines (Notebooks, Ultrabook, laptop, Large tablet with keyboard and fixed Desktop machines).

    The Fourth?

    HDTVs without a keyboard but added "smart features" beyond TV, inc Internet. Try using a true "Media center" [sic] interface designed for Remote control on a Laptop or Desktop, or a regular "desktop" GUI on settee on a TV.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He is right.

      Seconded.

      Yes, Jakob Nielsen can be a little too academic at times, but in general UI/UX terms he usually hits the nail on the head.

      And with the summery I've read so far (going to have a peak into the full report) he has got it spot on. Windows 8 is two UI's thrown together and served up as one. I know, we've all said the same, but it's worth reading a review that articulates the issues better than the many "WINDOWS 8 IS DA SUX!1!!"

      I like Windows 8 for its 'Windows UX'. Smooth, fast, not too heavy on resources - like Windows 7 but more 'less is more'. Like Nielsen, I also like Ribbon. But I hate them literally wedging an entirely separate entity into Windows and saying "There we go, it's unified now".

      No, it's not. It's a Siamese twin.

      1. MIc
        Thumb Up

        Re: He is right.

        it is. But with such a legacy base I can't think of a way for that company to really do something different and also not ditch the massive ecosystem of normal windows products and code.

        This is called the innovators dilemma I believe. I will be an interesting Christmas season to watch the tech industry fight it out.

      2. Giles Jones Gold badge

        Re: He is right.

        See what he thinks of a popular Android tablet, is he still right? lol

        http://www.useit.com/alertbox/kindle-fire-usability.html

        Android usability is pretty dire.

        1. Chet Mannly

          Re: He is right.

          "See what he thinks of a popular Android tablet, is he still right? lol...Android usability is pretty dire."

          The article is a discussion on web browsing using 7 inch tablets, not a review of Android!!

          Just to demonstrate his lack of credibility:

          "The Fire is a heavy object. It's unpleasant to hold for extended periods of time. Unless you have forearm muscles like Popeye, you can't comfortably sit and read an engaging novel all evening. "

          The Kindle weighs absolutely nothing FFS. He must get removalists or a forklift to move his laptop to another room.

          Sorry, I call Fanboi, don't care what his "reputation" is...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: He is right.

        Windows 8 doesn't come with a very good grammar check does it?

        Summery: something which is summer-like in nature.

        Peak: the top of a mountain (see "peek" for definition of looking at something with your eyes)

      4. Chet Mannly

        Re: He is right.

        "Jakob Nielsen can be a little too academic at times, but in general UI/UX terms he usually hits the nail on the head."

        Except for completely stuffing up the "show running applications list" gesture then ripping into MS based on his own ignorance.

        Its like him using a hammer with its head turned sideways then complain about how awkward it was to hit nails in...

        1. James Anderson

          Re: He is right.

          Well firstly it doesn't come with a manual and the gestures are supposed to be intuitive -- so fail 1 for MS.

          Secondly it wasn't him who had the problem -- but nearly all of his 20 guinea pigs (which included some very experienced techies) who had the problem -- he was merely observing their experience.

          I will avoid the UI formerly known as Metro for as long as I can, which shouldn't be too hard as the Firms PC is still running XP, and, I use UBUNTU for preference.

          Also for anyone put of by the UBUNTU UNITY interface, my advice is stick with it for a couple of weeks and you won't even miss gnome.

      5. Robert Ramsay
        Facepalm

        Re: He is right.

        The minute I used it for the first time I realised what they'd done.

        They took out the start menu code and replaced it with Metro. Metro *is* the Start Menu for Windows 8.

        I thought: What's the simplest way they could do this without having to rewrite all the code?

        And no, I don't think it was a good idea either.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He is right.

      Funny how if Apple produce a very simple GUI it gets shot down as being simple and for idiots.

      Yet if someone creates a more advanced UI that isn't simple and for idiots then it's also bad.

      Jakob is critical of Android:

      http://blog.utest.com/testing-the-limits-with-jakob-nielsen-part-i/2011/04/

      "In our current user testing, Android scores fairly well, but not as good as iPhone. "

      1. Paul Shirley

        Re: He is right about Android ICS

        "Jakob is critical of Android"

        ICS and Jellybean are both infected by the same thinking that created Metro's plain rectangles. The same lack of visual cues confusing the eye, the same oversimplification. Most of the world don't have ICS upgrades yet, probably why there's been no backlash - along with the substantial performance/feature improvements bundled with the new theme to soften the blow. Been using it for a few months now and it just isn't getting any better looking to me and I'm still poking the wrong hit zones far too often.

        Both seem to be copying Google's web theming with it's plain rectangles and cryptic icons (still grateful someone kindly reminded me there is a text option instead), which confuses the hell out of me. Simultaneously looking dumbed down but needing more mental effort learning and remembering your way round the UI. It's as if MS looked at Googles success and blindly copied, tweaked, renamed without stopping to check they'd copied the good bits.

    3. Steven Roper
      Thumb Up

      Re: He is right.

      Absolutely. There should be four versions of Windows for each of the kind of devices you describe. They could be called, respectively:

      Windows Phone 8

      Windows Surface 8

      Windows Desktop 8

      Windows Media Center 8

      And Microsoft could then do us the huge favour of making them interoperable as well. What a novel idea...!

  2. BelieverX
    Meh

    Mr Guru...

    Right click Live Tile, move mouse down to Turn Live Tile Off button and click. There...no more blinking tiles.

    1. supreme-overlord

      Re: Mr Guru...

      "Right click Live Tile, move mouse down to Turn Live Tile Off button and click. There...no more blinking tiles."

      Dead, static tile then? Right good job!

  3. MIc
    Alert

    Bought a surface...

    And I find that on a tablet win 8 is really good. The learning curve is significant. But the consistency that you get within all Win8 apps is awesome. The contract approach to search / settings / sharing is very fluid and very fast. There are features that you can't get on other OSes. But it took me a while to start to become familiar with these feature and to get to a point where Win8 was a net benefit.

    On my desktop with 4 monitors.... meh.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bought a surface...

      I would suggest you try a touch mouse, it makes Win8 far more useable. Amazon are currently selling the MS touch mouse (other touch mice are available) for about £20 - it's probably so cheap because of all that tax they're avoiding.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bought a surface...

        You can prise my works-on-glass mouse with free-scrolling wheel and lots of buttons out of my cold dead hands!

        I like my buttons to go 'click'.

  4. MIc
    Joke

    Metro version of visual studio anyone???

    Just though of having to use Visual Studio with a touch based Metro UI.... The though of it made me punch 3 kittens in the face.

    1. El Andy

      Re: Metro version of visual studio anyone???

      That's why the desktop still exists and why it will continue to, because some applications need much more complex UI, whilst the vast majority don't. That's kind of the whole theory behind Windows 8, not that many people seem to have grasped this. You'll never be able to write iPad apps on an actual iPad, but you can write Windows 8 apps on a Windows 8 tablet device today.

      1. Matthew 25

        Re: Metro version of visual studio anyone???

        Why vote him down for stating the truth?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Metro version of visual studio anyone???

          Matthew, Voting on here is often not about facts.

          You like something something someone else doesn't, you'll get downvoted. Criticise Linux. The penguins will downvote. Like Windows, Linux and Fanboys will downvote. Like Apple, the downvoters come out of the woodwork like woodworm at an orgy. If you don't like what 'they' like, you're doomed.

          Fickle lot.

  5. TonyHoyle

    "The worst gesture might be the one to reveal the list of currently running applications: you need to first swipe from the screen's left edge, and then immediately reverse direction and do a small swipe the other way, and finally make a 90-degree turn to move your finger to a thumbnail of the desired application. The slightest mistake in any of these steps gives you a different result,"

    Seriously?!!!

    How in hell did anyone even discover how to do that in the first place?

    1. MIc
      Facepalm

      OMG!!

      How did anyone discover Ctrl+V, Ctrl+C, Window+P, Alt+Tab?

      Relax everything will be ok.

      1. pixl97

        Re: OMG!!

        >How did anyone discover Ctrl+V, Ctrl+C, Window+P, Alt+Tab?

        I personally remember some kind of sticker or card mounted on the keyboard of the computer I was working at? But that was back in the day when computers and applications came with manuals.

        These days we just jab shit with our greasy fingers and hope that everything turns out ok.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: OMG!!

          Or, follow the interactive tutorial which appears the first time every new user logs on.

          A bit like a manual, but more in your face, so there's less excuse for not noticing it...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: OMG!!

        > How did anyone discover Ctrl+V, Ctrl+C

        Because they are sitting there on the drop-down menus next to the words "Paste" and "Copy".

      3. Gian

        Re: OMG!!

        it's more interesting discovering (win-key) + x

        1. Flawless101
          Happy

          Re: OMG!!

          Holy shit, why am I just learning this now.

      4. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: OMG!!

        I'm not sure I even know what you are on about.

        Although I am sure I can find the relevant features by using the mouse to poke around whatever interface you happen to be talking about.

      5. Gamrith

        Re: OMG!!

        @Mlc: How did anyone discover Ctrl+V, Ctrl+C, Window+P, Alt+Tab?

        Welllll, Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V, like Ctrl-Q and Ctrl-S were around in VMS, Apollo Aegis, Ultrix, so I was happy that they were around in Windows/DOS, too.

        As to Window+P: Don't know, dont care.

        ...and Alt+Tab: Fluff

        There. All clear now?

        Georg

    2. AZComicGeek

      How in hell did anyone even discover how to do that in the first place? They were flailing wildly trying to get something done.

  6. The_Regulator
    Joke

    Just wondering if any of you have been to the homepage of this guys website, it might be the worst site I have seen on the net in 10 years. Looks like it was built using design from 1990 and an RM Nimbus.

    Obviously this guy is clueless and why anyone would actually listen to anything he has to say about modern technology is beyond me.

    http://www.useit.com/

    ^^ I LOL'd

    1. MissingSecurity

      Might not be pretty...

      But seems to be functional.

      1. Matt_payne666
        Happy

        Re: Might not be pretty...

        My girlfriend is a nice combination of functional and pretty...

        My car is more style over function, but with a lot of sensible features...

        my kettle is style over features...

        Other than my double glazing, or possibly the extractor fan in my bathroom, I find it hard to recommend pure function over form... there are happy mediums, Neilsons an function extremist, to the point that to me - living in a world of rich media I find his website quite difficult to use...

        We are not robots, we are able to see the shades of grey in the horrendously black and white wold of binary, celebrate this! enjoy some eye candy and cheer up you miserable sods!!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Might not be pretty...

          Pictures of girlfriend and evidence of functionality or it's just trolling.

          Seriously, pure function is always well designed. Modern cars increasingly look the same as functionality improves; once you take into account aerodynamics, roadholding, safety, longevity and economy, as time goes on there are fewer design choices.

          Computers and software just have further to go.

        2. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

          Re: Matt_payne666

          That's all well and good.

          Except when "pretty" gets in the way of "functional".

        3. dajames
          Angel

          Re: Might not be pretty...

          Other than my double glazing, or possibly the extractor fan in my bathroom, I find it hard to recommend pure function over form...

          Your double glazing -- you said it -- when it comes to windows you prefer function over form!

    2. Hooksie

      Holy crap balls

      Seriously?? This is the website of the guy slagging off Windows 8 and the guy who couldn't figure that bringing up the charms bar in ANY Metro app allows you to search? You would be as we'll listening to the Mary Whitehous review of Saw for fooks sake. Usability expert?? My hoop he is.

      1. Matthew 25
        Terminator

        Re: Holy crap balls

        I quite like it. Being dyslexic, I find it easier to read than most sites.

        Nielsen's point is that things should be usable by everyone. Not just those who can tell the difference between green and red or have full manual dexterity or don't get their wucking murds fuddled.

    3. Old Handle

      Joke or not, I'm inclined to agree.

      While it's clearly the diametric opposite of a blinking carnival, I'm not sure there's a good thing. I feel like it doesn't give anything for my eyes to "latch on to", like I have to read a good portion of it just to get an idea of what kinds of information it contains. Would it kill the guy to at least use headings larger than the body text?

      I was also negatively impressed that such an incredibly simple site would still partly depend on javascript (for the search).

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "http://www.useit.com/

      ^^ I LOL'd"

      I'm still laughing and it's now Wednesday.

      1. Trevor 3

        Actually I found his website rather good.

        It loaded in under 3 seconds, no flash, important stuff left hand side, interesting stuff right hand side, contact details at the bottom.

        Do you have pictures in your books at home, and feel a bit lost without them on the internet?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @The_Regulator

      Feast your eyes on this then - http://www.webkingusa.com/

      Now you can cry.

  7. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    The thing is, almost all the UIs I've seen are pretty dire... and they are getting worse, not better.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Android is making it worse since it is utter chaos.

      Even Jakob said the more controlled and closed systems have better usability since they are often consistently designed and enforce style guides.

  8. WylieCoyoteUK
    Coffee/keyboard

    He has made some good points.

    Let's face it, TIFKAM is a mess.

    Besides the lack of consistency and usability on a desktop, Live tiles just create a screen full of noise, and they are being sued by another company who couldn't sell them either.

    How many people actually used Active desktop? Desktop gadgets? Personalised menus? all basically "new ideas" that ended up as annoyances.

    The thing is, you could turn them off or choose not to use them. Not so TIFKAM or the Ribbon (yeuck).

    How much of the eye-candy survives, and how much is actually of any use?

    Sinofsky's gone, 8 is tanking, MS have gone very quiet while they try to recover something from the wreckage.

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