back to article Hmm, I think I'll order an iPad Mini on Amazon ... Oh no I won't

Amazon has weighed into the tablet pooh-pooh battle, following Apple's blow by blow comparison with a Samsung Galaxy Tab during the iPad Mini launch last week. The gloves are off down at Tablet Club, and this time the iPad Mini is on the receiving end. Amazon is taking a direct swipe at Apple's littlest Pad with a point by …

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Company advertising it's own product on it's own website shocker!!

I occasionally go to the Apple site to see their products... and the Samsung apology of course. OK it's mostly the apology I go for.

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Anonymous Coward

I love to laugh at the arrogance of the apology....

If I was the judge I'd rule in contempt of court!

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Not particularly surprising. The Mini is a direct competitor, but the compromises made to make it viable, like the same pixel count as the iPad2, also screw it over. Those compromises are the exact reason Jobs didn't rate the idea of a SFF tablet. Of course, Amazon can charge whatever the heck it likes, as they really don't care about making a profit on hardware. Sales only mean more people buying content, whereas the iPad Mini has justify its existence.

The only real question remaining is; Will they blend? (The Fire, probably, the Mini not so much)

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"Sales only mean more people buying content, whereas the iPad Mini has justify its existence."

Which sounds like a logical argument until you realise that the only official way to use an iAnything is through purchasing from Apple's store, where they take a pretty cut from the revenue.

The profit margin on the device is massive, but they know that (within reason) the masses will still buy enough to make it a commercial success.

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"Which sounds like a logical argument until you realise that the only official way to use an iAnything is through purchasing from Apple's store, where they take a pretty cut from the revenue."

Except that this argument is as old as the hills and still not true.

There are apps for Kindle, Lovefilm, Netflix, Spotify and Zinio to name a few, all of which allow you to use content you purchased directly from them (yes, you can also buy via Apple in some cases).

In fact, most of these apps are also available on Android, so it's somewhat ironic that the Android-based Kindle is probably one of the most restricted tablets out there.

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>Which sounds like a logical argument until you realise that the only official way to use an iAnything is through purchasing from Apple's store, where they take a pretty cut from the revenue.

Not true. I have iDevices, but very rarely buy anything from the Apple stores. Apps are usually free, and music and video are sourced, converted and loaded though other channels.

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Coat

Where's the playbook love?

It has erm, and umm, but also style and a very good o/s. (also cheap for 'some' reason). Now if only I could download 'thingy' app. (I still like it mind).

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Serves Apple right....

Apple shot themselves in the foot with that mini thing.

It's pretty much like the Porsche Boxster. While the performance may be similar to the real thing and most parameters are broadly in line with the 911 the only real reason anyone buys the Boxster is because they cannot afford the 911. Consequently what all Boxsters "scream of" is Couldn't quite afford the real thing and this is what I settled for.

This may work with Porsches but don't think it'll work with the iPad.

Sometimes, backbone and principles are more important and this move will certainly contribute to undermining Apple's image long-term. I mean, Apple managed to get an iPad (any iPad, for that matter) in a comparison with a Fire, something unthinkable with the proper pads (AFAIK Amazon didn't dare go on a side-by-side comparison with either iPad2 or 3; could be wrong though).

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Silver badge

Re: Serves Apple right....

:) like it

but then anyone buying a porsche is admitting a serious lack of taste and style, should have gone with a proper sports car with a bit of individuality and style - the Brits make plenty of them.

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IT Angle

Re: Serves Apple right....

@ Dave 15

Name 2 British firms who make proper sports cars (as opposed to track day toys, so excludes Ariel, Westfield, Caterham, and Radical)..

@Turle_fan

Shows how too many people judge people based on stereotypes. I have several friends with Boxters and I almost bought one as well. None were because we could not afford a 911, but because we wanted rag tops, some thing the Boxter is very good for, but the 911 Cabrio is flawed (due to chopping off the roof and adding extra strength else where, rather than being designed from the ground up as a soft top).

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On the point of cars

I admit it never occurred to me that a soft-top could ever be a selling point given that whoever I spoke to about cabriolets (and there's quite a few here in Switzerland) they all complain about soft tops and their noise at speeds above 100kmh (65mph).

And as for Porsches in general if you exclude the Cayman, I can't say I like the looks of any but that's just individual taste.

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Joke

Re: Serves Apple right....

Sounds like someone's justifying not being able to afford a 911...

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JC_

@Dapprman

Name 2 British firms who make proper sports cars

Lotus & McLaren?

(I don't really care - prefer motorbikes and Triumph make them as well as anyone)

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TWB

Re: Serves Apple right....

I don't like Porches myself, but I prefer the Boxter to the 911 for many reasons but cost is not one of them.

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Re: @Dapprman

Lotus, McLaren, Noble ... oh wait, i did one too many.

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Re: @Dapprman

Lotus is Malaysian ... or was ... gad, I can't remember, which part of Lotus is owned by whom?

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Re: Serves Apple right....

Except the iPad Mini's competition is both BETTER (spec-wise) AND lower priced so people don't have to "settle" for anything. The same can't be said for a Boxster S which for the price outperforms all other roadsters. And when did buying a $50,000+ car with two seats that you can't drive all year round qualify as "settling" in this country? You must be one of the 1%.

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FAIL

Re: Serves Apple right....

Noble

Aston Martin

Next?

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Flame

Re: Serves Apple right....

The only reason people buy the poxster is because they cant afford a 911...

So says Mr J. Clarkson and he's right...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: On the point of cars

You LIKE the Cayman? I always thought people driving those had more money than style... WAY more money than style..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @Dapprman

Who cares who the shareholder is, it is where the company is based that matters... Like Jag, sure its owned by an Indian company, but designed & made here in the UK by British workers... and they make damn nice cars...

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Silver badge

Re: Serves Apple right....

Downvoted by poxster owners....HAHAHAH....

The shame of owning a poxster must be biting....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Serves Apple right.... @ Dapprman

With the two most recent generations of Porsche 911 (ie: 991 and 997), the cabriolet is infact the base model - the coupe (or targa for that matter) is essentially a cabriolet with some extra metalwork. Not the other way around.

And for the previous generation to those (ie: 996), the coupe and cabriolet were developed in parallel with each other - and also in parallel with the 986 Boxster, with which they share an alarming number of components.

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Lies Damn Lies and Advertising

There are certainly some shadings of the truth in Amazons comparison.

I wouldnt take either side of that comparison as accurate or truthful. About the only 2 thing that unequivocably true is the speaker and dpi comparision.

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Coat

Re: Lies Damn Lies and Advertising

Surely the top thing of truth in the advert is the cost...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Lies Damn Lies and Advertising

"I wouldnt take either side of that comparison as accurate or truthful. About the only 2 thing that unequivocably true is the speaker and dpi comparision."

Those are the two truths that count though. Apple have miscalculated here and seem to have forgotten what the mini should be all about: growing their ecosystem. Offering a bit of hardware that is in some ways inferior to the competition and also more expensive is not likely to achieve this; especially where the competition have strong ecosystems of their own.

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Joke

That's fair enough. The only non Apple tablet mentioned on the Apple UK site is a Samsung Tablet which sounds rubbish based on a UK judges description

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Anonymous Coward

Build Quality??

Why do Apple people keep bringing up 'build quality'? All these systems are built in the same factories from very similiar components and materials.

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Silver badge

Re: Build Quality??

why did this statement of the reality get down voted? The apple fanbois on the defensive again.

Same factories, same workers, same material, same chips, same displays, same batteries. I had a feeling that there was one chip designed by apple buried in amongst the rest but I am not actually certain about that - I think they are now all from outside suppliers. If the one chip I recollect is an 'apple' chip then it is still made by someone else anyway.

The real truth (sorry apple fambois) is that the product is just the same as everyone elses but just priced higher. Put another way, where the hell did you think all that profit came from - the fairies? No it comes from charging you a premium for the badge. Up to you all if you want to pay it, but don't pretend it buys you anything other than a badge.

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Re: Build Quality??

Because Apple makes theirs out of a solid billet of aluminium and no-one else does?

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Re: Build Quality??

Assembled by, and designed by are not the same thing.

Apple designs its own chips and then passes the specs to someone for manufacture. So the performance of said chip is not identical to a similar item churned out at the same factory, but designed elsewhere.

Where i work we make packaging. Sometimes the customer provides the spec, sometimes our in-house design team does the work from scratch. A carton of identical size may have a very different specification in terms of material used, shape and size of tabs and interlocking components, tearaways etc.

Just because samsung production lines manufacture components doesn't mean they designed them. Its just very good business to utilise the spare capacity you have in your factory to make a margin from someone elses product :)

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Meh

Re: Build Quality??

I don't think anyone's on the defensive. It got downvoted from me because the AC said "very similar". The iPad is aluminium, all the others (as far as I'm aware) are plastic. If you think aluminium and plastic are very similar then perhaps the reality distortion field has infiltrated the world of materials.

I can compare the build quality of my iPad with that of my wife's Samsung Galaxy Tab and the iPad is better built.

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Gold badge

Re: Build Quality??

"Assembled by, and designed by are not the same thing."

But if the phrase "build quality" refers to either of those things, it must surely be the former, so I think the OP's question stands. Perhaps the answer is that this is advertising, and since the "build quality" is actually identical, it follows that the advertising must pretend otherwise. Otherwise, where's the FUD?

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Re: Build Quality??

You should read the DigiKey catalogue. We live in a world in which there are at least 351 competing choices for a 0.1uF 0402 capacitor. You don't think there's any differentiation in chips, displays and batteries from various suppliers, nor any variation in case engineering tolerances at different price points? Because I would say there probably are.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Build Quality??

"why did this statement of the reality get down voted? The apple fanbois on the defensive again."

Because you're being mentally lazy, you're a prat *and* you're wrong?

The iPad's build quality is fantastic, it is solid as hell, really nicely made. Much moreso than any of my other devices.

Of course, I prefer to use my Nexus 7 while commuting, as it's comfortable to hold in one hand while strap-hanging.. it is smaller and lighter. Actually, there are a few other things about it that I prefer about it, as compared to my iPad, but I digress.

I would have to be some sort of ludicrously feeble advocate idiot who divides the world into who is or isn't in the pathetic tree-house gang du jour, investing far too much of my self-esteem in what brand of mobile wossname I own to claim that the iPad isn't far more study and robust. Making specious arguments from ignorance or mendacity just to support the bug up my ass would really really weak.. amirite?

Thank god that this is a respectable forum for local people, and there no poo-flinging tribal bellends of that sort around here, eh?

(Breathes. Honestly, you people. Can't you all just start religions and blow each other up or something? You suck)

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Re: Build Quality??

But the issue was "build quality", not performance - are you suggesting that some CPUs just fall apart or something? But Apple's don't because of the "design"? If you're talking performance, then that's a spec that can be measured. And that's precisely the thing that the Apple fans here are claiming shouldn't be used to compare - it's not about performance, they say, it's all about "build quality".

Really, I'm with the OP - what is "build quality"? We're talking phones, not furniture. It reeks of "let's make up a random hard to measure stat, and just assert Apple are the best" tactic that Apple fans love to play.

Most of the design is by ARM, btw.

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Re: Build Quality??

Noted. If I want a tablet to act as a door stop, or prop up a broken table, the ipad is the one for the job.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Build Quality??

The iFan's version of 'Build Quality' is basically that it's got a metal case. Last year, 'Build Quality' meant it had to have a glass case.

Honestly, though... If the vaunted 'Build Quality' is all there is to strive for, wouldn't we be better off with cast iron or concrete? Then they'd be even harder, so therefore have better 'Build Quality', right?

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Re: Build Quality??

@AC Glass Case

Good point. Fanbois seem to have forgotten all the shed tears over the cool looking glass construction of the iPhone 4, et. all.

For the record, I have the nexus 7. The build quality could be better, as it suffers from the lifting left corner like so many others do. But for the money and the performance, I'm willing to let it fudge a little. Build material? Really, I think the ruberized backside is probably a better choice than aluminum. Yes, aluminum is sweet and light (I love using it on my boats), but not particularly grippy on its own.

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Re: Build Quality??

@AC 20.37 'The iPad's build quality is fantastic, it is solid as hell, really nicely made'

Maybe so, but it'll still be out of date just as fast as any other technology.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Build Quality??

I think people consider plastic to be inferior... although if build quality = able to survive a rough life, then plastic wins out... with plastic it flexes.. with aluminium & glass it don't, it shatters &dents.. my aluminium macbook has DENTS, my 3year older laptop that I treat much rougher, has a few scratches on the case,... no dents...

I really want a Carbon Fibre device...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Build Quality?? @ Andrew James

Apple designs its own chips? Don't make me laugh...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Build Quality??

"I really want a Carbon Fibre device..."

No you don't. You want a carbon fibre and other stuff device, lamitated, involving resin, etc. Carbon fibre's main failure mode is... sudden :)

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Happy

Three words

"Tee hee hee".

Mine's an extra large tub of popcorn...

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Anonymous Coward

No idea if it's intentional, but I notice the ipad mini settings icon has an update notification dot on it. Wonder whether that's to get people to subconsciously think of unwanted updates to operating systems removing map functionality.

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More likely it demonstrates that even the Apple employee who uses that particular tablet doesn't want to upgrade to iOS6.

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Anonymous Coward

"More likely it demonstrates that even the Apple employee who uses that particular tablet doesn't want to upgrade to iOS6."

I wish I hadn't, I had morbid curiosity about the new Maps shizzle. However, it cost me my jailbreak. Of course, I am too lazy to work out how to roll back, I will just wait for Absinthe or Redsn0w to catch up with a5/ios6. For most things, I prefer the nexus 7 anyway.

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Anonymous Coward

You're behind the curve, Jeorg.

The iPad 5+ is the only true tablet to buy right now! I'm afraid you've just wasted your money on last month's tablet sent down from the mountain of St Jobs.

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