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Recent warnings of a "cyber–Pearl Harbor" by US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and others are hypocritical, according to a leading security expert, given that the US is responsible for most of the online attacks so far uncovered. "If we look for offensive cyber attacks that have been linked back to a known government, we …

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  1. Schultz
    WTF?

    'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

    The current policy in the US seems to be the opposite: Yell constantly and loudly about terror, red lines, etc., and use all the little sticks in the arsenal (drones, cyberweapons). The constant gradual aggression kind of blurs the perceptions: How should a country such as Iran react to the constant US threats if an undeclared small-scale war is already going on?

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    1. Anonymous Coward
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      Pint

      Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

      Nukes: use 'em if you've got 'em.

      Anthrax: the same.

      Ebola: the same (I can't wait until they weaponize this.)

      I really don't care any more.

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      1. FormerKowloonTonger
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        Facepalm

        Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

        .....adolescent snark.

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      2. FormerKowloonTonger
        Reply Icon
        Facepalm

        Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

        ....adolescent nonsense.

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        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

          You and your like can think like that when you have the grown ups protecting your socialist asses. When all hell breaks loose, all the weak countries will cower and expect the strong to come to their aid. You should pick your friends carefully. Believe it or not there are bad countries that don't like you and there are good countries that believe in freedom. When the US finally succumbs to the protectionists, Europe will see what it feels like to defend herself. Britain can only do so much, as she is also surrendering to the impulses of the weak.

          Churchill knew that strength and willingness to use force are more important than mere words, especially in the world of international diplomacy.

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          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

            Sometimes people need to be reminded of what happens to countries or groups which attack the United States.

            "I have a very bad feeling about this." Admiral Isoru Yamamoto, somewhere in the Pacific, December 8, 1941.

            If Osama bin Laden had been a more retrospective person, on 9/12/2001 he might have said something like "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time." (He was probably thinking about the 72 virgins - he has found out now that it is ONE virgin, and she's 72 years old - and a camel.)

            Piss and moan all you want about the USA, but how would you like it if Iran or North Korea were the big kids on the block? We don't DEMAND TRIBUTE from the nations and populace we have UTTERLY CRUSHED under our iron heel, we'd just like you to eat at MickeyD's sometimes and occasionally watch Jersey Shore, and we don't even get particularly upset if you decline.

            Get over this knee-jerk anti-Americanism, it isn't cool and it isn't smart.

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            1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge
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              It is not knee jerk anti-Americanism, it is anti-fascism?

              The world is full of ignorant fools and arrogant tools, AC, and the trick is not to be one, believing everything that you are told, for most of what you are told is specifically designed to extraordinarily render to you a view which is false and to be unquestioned? ...... http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-anarchists-grand-jury-20121020,0,4466815.story

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              1. Local G
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                Holmes

                Did we just have a cyber attack?

                If you google "speak softly and carry a big stick",Theodore Roosevelt's name comes up as the phrase maker. Yet the best and brightest all know it was Winston Churchill.

                This has Beijing's fingerprints all over it.

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                1. Fatman
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                  Re: Theodore Roosevelt

                  Another one who has paid attention in History class.

                  IIRC, wasn't that statement made around the turn of the last (19th) century? Something to do in conjunction with the explosion of the battleship Maine / US interference in Cuba? My mind seems a bit foggy today!

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            2. Spoddyhalfwit
              Reply Icon

              Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

              AC@22:27

              "Sometimes people need to be reminded of what happens to countries or groups which attack the United States."

              Yes, let's consider what happened to Saudi Arabia after 18 of their citizens, led by saudi bin laden, inspired by Saudis extreme state religion got as punishment...

              - the US attacked Iraq, taking out the saudis biggest regional rival

              - the US ratchets up sanctions on Iran, the Saudis next biggest rival

              - the US helps topple secular regimes like Libya and Syria, yet the let's Saudi troops wade into bahrain to put down democracy protests

              - the US concludes the biggest arms deal in history with Saudi... Some $60 bn of the latest military kit.

              Yes that is what happens if you attack the US... They bend over and let you fuck them up the arse and then run errands for you. And meanwhile they fox news watching retard public will brown their underpants worrying about muslim terrorists while 30,000 Americans ( that's 10 911s each year) die each year at the hands of fellow Americans thanks to the right to own a gun to defend themselves.

              What a fucked up country.

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            3. FormerKowloonTonger
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              Trollface

              Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

              I'm frankly surprised at the "hip"...is that the correct word ?....anti-American thoughts here among the posters who seem mostly very young and/or inexperienced except in using this keyboard.... and who are seemingly predominantly Brits, or at least English, more attuned to wanting to be perceived as being witty or clever, in an adolescent sort of way, than they are wanting to be well read and informed on affairs (-es) outside of their borough.

              "Wise" in the contemporary sense seems to be "smartass" in my near-geriatric mindset.

              Imagine! The! Horror! when they find out that Winston Churchill had gasp!....pause...for...effect.....an.....American!.....Mother!

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              1. FormerKowloonTonger
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                Thumb Up

                Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

                Uncle Google has this which I paste here as a reminder of all that was going on at that particularly awful time....

                ...."Winston Churchill was half American by birth - a fact of which he was deeply proud. In his first address to a joint session of the United States Congress, on 26 December 1941, he teased the assembled Senators and Representatives with the mischievous suggestion, "If my father had been American and my mother British, instead of the other way 'round, I might have got here on my own!"........

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                1. Local G
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                  Childcatcher

                  Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

                  Wasn't it Lady Churchill who said, "(The author of) the line is immaterial?"

                  Or was that Lady Bracknell?

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          2. Psyx
            Reply Icon
            WTF?

            Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

            "You and your like can think like that when you have the grown ups protecting your socialist* asses. When all hell breaks loose[*waves arms*], all the weak countries will cower and [*froth*] expect the strong to come to their aid [*chest thumping*]. You should pick your friends carefully [*threatening tone*]. Believe it or not there are ba[aaaaaa]d countries that don't like you [*waves arms*] and there are good countries [*Fist to heart: God Bless America!*] that believe in freedom [*Mel Gibson*]. When the US finally succumbs to the protectionists[*Pounds lectern*], Europe will see what it feels like [*spittle*] to defend herself*. Britain can only do so much**, as she is also surrendering to the impulses of the weak.[*salutes*]"

            As I read that, my mind played the rising strains of a brass section playing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, Über alles in der Welt" in the background, and flags slowly be raised.

            *Because someone who supports a classless, equal society is a BAD PERSON, 'socialist' is an insult.

            **Like we did for the first half of two world wars before the US got bombed and decided to join in, instead of just standing by and profiteering.

            ***Like we did for 900 years.

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    2. gollux
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      Mushroom

      Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

      And a phrase used long before by TR "Bullmoose" Roosevelt during the era of William Randolph "You provide the pictures and I'll provide the war" Hearst.

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    3. Tom 13
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      Re: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' (Churchill)

      You should at least get the speaker for the quote correct.

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  2. Alan Johnson

    Talk Softly and carry a big stick

    I do not remember CHurchill saying talk softly and carry a big stick. H emay have said something like it but he certainly did not originate it. It is such an obvious saying that I doubt anyone knows who truely originated it. The whole point of the expression though is that you should hav eth emeans to defend yourself so that an attack would obviously be risky and costly but you should not provoke potential enemies.

    This is the complete opposite of the typcial US approach which is to threaten and attack who have not attacked or threatened them. In the hope of cowing them into following the US' preferred polciies. In some cases works in some cases not but in all cases it increases tension, resentment against the US and levels of violence. In the past it forced many countries to ally themselves with the USSR. Nowadays it is helping sustain the taliban and other extremist groups and is the main reason why we believe Iran is aiming at having the capability to make a nuclear weapon - it is there only sensible means of defence.

    I am suprised that anyonewas remotely suprised that the US is the main aggressor in cyber attacks as this is simply an extension of the pattern for military aggression since world war II.

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    1. Simbooth
      Reply Icon

      Re: Talk Softly and carry a big stick

      It was Teddy Roosevelt- Hence why the Aircraft Carrier Carrying his name is known as 'The Stick'.

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  3. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Happy

    The Good News

    The majority of past empires were eventually brought down by internal decay and corruption - looks like the US is getting pretty close.

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    1. FormerKowloonTonger
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      Re: The Good News

      ......and don't forget the British.

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      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Unhappy

        Re: The Good News

        We aren't getting close... we are already there.

        Run down manufacturing.

        Sold off the infrastructure.

        'No child left behind' (tm) micky-mouse education.

        Government by crisis/old-pals-act.

        No effective police accountability.

        Financial chaos.

        Zero prospects for most school leavers.

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    2. Tom 13
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Re: looks like the US is getting pretty close.

      Yes, and that worked SO WELL when Rome fell.

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  4. Mike Flugennock
    FAIL

    "Cyber Pearl Harbor"? Hey, Leon, 1998 called...

    Oh, Christ, y'mean Panetta is blurting out that tired old "Electronic Pearl Harbor" rap now?

    Yo, Leon, baby! That "Cyber Pearl Harbor" thing is so goddamn' played, man! Get a new metaphor or go home. BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA... ooop, I wet 'em.

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  5. Mike Flugennock
    Facepalm

    Here's a little more poop on the old "Cyber Pearl Harbor" trope

    ...as it no doubt transmogrifies into "Electronic 9/11"...

    Circa late '90s, for you old Crypt Newsletter fans out there:

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/secret_projects2/project397.htm

    Source: Northern Illinois University

    http://www.soci.niu.edu/~crypt/other/harbor.htm

    Electronic Pearl Harbor (or "EPH"): a bromide popularized by Alvin Toffler-types, ex-Cold War generals, assorted corporate windbags and hack journalists, to name a few. EPH is meant to signify a nebulous electronic doom always looming over U.S. computer networks. In the real world, it’s a cue for the phrase "Watch your wallet!" since those wielding it are usually doing so in an attempt to convince taxpayers or consumers to fund ill-defined and/or top secret projects said to be aimed at protecting us from it. It has been seen thousands of times since its first sighting in 1993.

    --from the Crypt Newsletter "Joseph K"

    Guide to Tech Terminology

    "Electronic Pearl Harbor" and variations on it, Crypt Newsletter has noticed, are now some of the most overused buzz-phrases in the topic of computer security and information warfare. Using Internet search engines, it is possible to quickly find over 500 citations for the phrase in on-line news archives, military research papers and press releases.

    Paradoxically, overuse of the phrase has had quite the opposite effect desired by those who unwittingly wield it.

    One can easily imagine p.r. handlers coaching our leaders, generals and corporate salesmen to not forget to say "electronic Pearl Harbor" at least one time just before giving a speech or interview. Since it is a gold-plated cliche, anyone with more sense than it takes to pour piss from a boot can use it as an infallible detector of Chicken Little-like cyber-bull.

    Paraphrased: Anyone still caught uttering "electronic Pearl Harbor" in 1999 is either an ex-Cold Warrior trying to drum up anti-terrorism funding through the clever use of propaganda, completely out of it, or a used-car salesman/white-collar crook of some type...

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  6. FormerKowloonTonger
    Trollface

    Gasp!......Winston Churchill was half American by birth.......(gasp!)

    Our Uncle Google has this oft forgotten tidbit.......pasted here:

    ........"Winston Churchill was half American by birth - a fact of which he was deeply proud. In his first address to a joint session of the United States Congress, on 26 December 1941, he teased the assembled Senators and Representatives with the mischievous suggestion, "If my father had been American and my mother British, instead of the other way 'round, I might have got here on my own!"

    Think what was happening in England and Europe at that terrible time, and why he was Franklin Roosevelt's house guest at Hyde Park, New York, and why the British King and Queen also visited there at Hyde Park and were a bit later Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt's guests at the White House, and were then very grateful for American technical, financial, and materiel and manpower aid....and, of course, that wasn't the last of it by any means.

    Attention spans have become so truncated now that if something won't fit with a Tweet...or on the face of an Ipod....it's nevah happened, man.

    All very sad.

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  7. gollux
    Mushroom

    In the words...

    Of the greatest president of all time, "Bring it on!"

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    1. Local G
      Reply Icon
      Big Brother

      Re: In the words...

      I wonder what Van Buren's (I assume you refer to the spectacular facial chops, puffs and wisps of our 8th President, the great Martin Van Buren) words would be on reading this article in today's RIA Novisti.

      http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20121021/176790845.html

      I like "Discretion is the better part of 'world domination.'" What do you think?

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  8. FormerKowloonTonger
    Devil

    News! Item! OH! Th' HYPOCRISY!

    ".......

    UK-based Muslim preacher leading jihad in Syria

    Britain's newest export: jihad. "The Poplar preacher leading an armed gang of jihadis in Syria," by Duncan Gardham for the Telegraph, October 19 (thanks to 538)......."

    .........pasted here for your convenience from today's "Jihad Watch" hosted by Robert Spencer.

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    1. Psyx
      Reply Icon
      Joke

      Re: News! Item! OH! Th' HYPOCRISY!

      "The Poplar preacher"

      Ah: That old chestnut. He must be branching out; probably because people oak fun at him here. I see he's spruced himself up for the cameras. I won't pine if he doesn't come back.

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  9. FormerKowloonTonger
    Devil

    "..dozens of British extremists...." Uh, Oh.....is this...gasp!...Hypocrisy?

    ...here's a more convenient paste.....from The Telegraph.

    "....By Duncan Gardham

    7:42PM BST 19 Oct 2012

    In a video posted on the internet in the last few days, Abu Basir al-Tartusi can be seen on a balcony surrounded by Kalashnikov waving rebels after apparently capturing a hilltop village in the war-torn country.

    Security sources believe that dozens of British extremists, possibly as many as 50, have travelled to Syria to join the fighting and some may have been recruited by Basir.

    This week a junior doctor of Bangladeshi origin from, East London was charged with kidnapping two photographers in Syria, where he was said to be part of a 15-strong group of Britons. "........

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    1. Local G
      Reply Icon
      Unhappy

      Re: "..dozens of British extremists...." Uh, Oh.....is this...gasp!...Hypocrisy?

      Meanwhile, thousands of miles away.

      "Russian Duma slams U.S. for human rights abuse, double standard."

      http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-10/22/c_123855726.htm

      Why is everybody (well, almost everybody) ganging up on the US?

      And then there's this,

      "U.S. delegation not entitled to China-Japan mediation: FM"

      http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-10/22/c_131922862.htm

      Golly, a superpower could come down with Aspergers with this kind of treatment.

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  10. FormerKowloonTonger
    Trollface

    Another! Gasp! Politically Incorrect! Paste!....for those who ....DARE!

    "The Islamic Schoolyard-Bully and Obama's America

    by Raymond Ibrahim

    FrontPageMagazine.com

    October 18, 2012

    http://www.meforum.org/3363/islamic-schoolyard-bully".....

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  11. FormerKowloonTonger
    Holmes

    A Bit More Of A Reality Jolt Needed Here.

    Try.... just try.....reading this from...Gasp!....the Wall Street Journal......

    " GLOBAL VIEW

    October 22, 2012, 7:10 p.m. ET

    Stephens: Iran's Unrequited War

    The mullahs are at war with us. Maybe we should return the favor."

    Hmmmmm?

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    1. Local G
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      "Maybe we should return the favor."

      Oh, is there some doubt about it?

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  12. FormerKowloonTonger
    Facepalm

    And, A Bit More Still......

    Here's another pregnant item from "Jihad Watch" of Robert Spencer.

    "UK: Muslims misunderstood Islam, planned "another 9/11"

    [...image excluded here....] ThreeAQ.jpgL-R: Moe, Larry and Curly

    Here again we see the high cost of misunderstanding the Religion of Peace: it leads young Muslims to plot mass murder. Yet nary a mosque in the U.K. or U.S. teaches against the jihad theology of al-Qaeda, and shows young Muslims why it represents a "highjacking" of Islam. How odd!".....

    ....read the whole thing.....this situation won't be going away because of fluttering ostrich feathers.

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