Re: DB5
The only one I've ever seen in the tin was on a housing estate near St Neots ffs parked outside a bungalow.
A more incongrous sight I have never beheld, but it was gorgeous.
Why James Bond's Aston Martin Top Trumps the rest
What car should James Bond really drive? It's a hotly disputed question. Our man on film is closely associated with the Aston Martin, the DB5 initially and DBS V12 of late. Clearly the producers of recent Bond outings hope to identify their character with the spirit of an earlier time regarded as iconic and special. And they …
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Tuesday 23rd October 2012 22:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: DB5
Had you been at Leatherhead B&Q in the early 90's you'd have seen an even more incongruous sight - my father, in the process of building a brick wall in the garden at home, ran out of cement. Being a logical sort of chap, he took the most suitable car he owned for the job off to buy some more. Since his DB5 drophead Vantage (one of only 12) had a lower boot sill than the family estate, a Peugeot 504, he took the Aston for ease of loading.
More recently, at a car show, we had to change my baby daughter's nappy, and I'm afraid the low, flat boot floor was pressed into service once again - possibly the most expensive changing mat in history. And the quickest too - the Vantage engine (nowadays) gives a genuine 300bhp and 300 lb/ft of torque.
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Friday 19th October 2012 21:53 GMT Matt Bryant
Re; AC
".....Bond never drove a half 2CV....." Not quite. A souped-up 2CV with a 4-cylinder engine was hilariously used in "For Your Eyes Only" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvJp1X3qiog) after the over-engineered theft-prevention system on the Esprit Turbo blew it up! However, having driven a few 2CVs and the awful Mehari "Jeep" version (courtesy of the Fwench Marines - vive le difference!), I can confidantly state it would not have survived half the crashes in the chase scene as the buggers had a nasty habit of folding in the middle! The Renault 11 was in "View To A Kill", when Bond was chasing the paragliding Grace Jones after she assassinated his contact at the Eifel Tower, and it did accurately reflect Renault's build quality when it took one tap and split in two.
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Sunday 21st October 2012 07:45 GMT Ian Johnston
Bond 2CV
I've met the owner of one of the Bond 2CVs - not the special edition, but the ones used for the chase in the film. Basically a standard 2CV, but with the 4-cylinder GS engine and a hydraulically operated arrester hook underneath to catch a wire if a jump had to be aborted..
I had a standard 2CV myself. They are extremely tough cars.
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Sunday 21st October 2012 18:30 GMT Nuke
Re: Bond 2CV
Ian Johnston wrote :-
"I had a standard 2CV myself. They are extremely tough cars."
Believe it or not, someone in the Hotwells area of Bristol made a stretch limo out of 2CVs. I used to see it around there and in the Bedminster area about 10 years ago. I think it had 6 doors. Looked hilarious.
For some time there was the back half of a 2CV, presumably a left-over, in a public car park near the Nova Scotia pub. The chassis members stuck out forward and I was always suprised when I passed to see that no yobbos had yet wheeled it like a hand cart into the nearby Cumberland Basin. Perhaps they did in the end.
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Monday 22nd October 2012 13:05 GMT The Baron
Re: Performance
Hmm. A well-maintained E-type will still hit sixty in under seven seconds and go on to 150mph, pretty-much identical to a current-generation Focus ST. OK, race them round a twisty course in the wet and there'll be no contest, but give it a dry drag race and there'll be a lot less dust eaten than you might expect. Pretty sweet given the damn thing's probably 45 years old.
As you say, though, in terms of price, fuel economy, carrying capacity, general running costs, safety, recycle-ability...
Does make you think, though... your typical passenger car in 2050 will no doubt have the performance of a Veyron and the fuel economy of a bicycle.
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Friday 19th October 2012 12:41 GMT Mystic Megabyte
I had the use of an 3.8 E-type for about a month. It's cool and sticks to the road like s**t to a blanket.
Took it for a cruise up the King's Rd, it had to be done :)
As for the 2CV, they will get you where even a 4x4 will have trouble. I drove one from London to Israel. Got it up roadless mountains and over coral sand beaches. When they get stuck in sand you only need a piece of 3x2 about 30" long and a rock to lever the wheels up. No jack needed.
Also you can fix a puncture with two small motorbike tyre levers in an hour. I had about ten patches on every tube and some on the inner tyre walls by the time I'd finished. Perfect for spying off the beaten track.
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Sunday 21st October 2012 08:24 GMT MrT
SAABs were a proper engineered job...
... until GM bean counters started to insist they rebadge generic stuff (which they didn't really do to a great extent - SAAB were always engineer-led).
Original 900 Turbo is still a quick and quirky thing - folks will always mention the ignition key down in the centre console, but they had other thoughtful ideas like proper drain taps in the heating system; beats undoing a jubilee clip, yanking off a hose and dodging coolant like on Cavaliers...
The 9000 was a button-fest inside, joint project with FIAT for the Chroma and Alfa 166. Of course, being SAAB they didn't just stop at swapping in their own engines, but out of that trio Bond would surely be better suited to a 3.0 V6 Alfa 166... if only Alfa's iconic GTV6 hadn't already been seen elsewhere.
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Sunday 21st October 2012 18:38 GMT Nuke
Re: SAABs were a proper engineered job...
MrT wrote :-
"Original 900 Turbo .... had other thoughtful ideas like proper drain taps in the heating system; beats undoing a jubilee clip, yanking off a hose and dodging coolant like on Cavaliers..."
Why single out Cavaliers? Tell me of any car that now has drain taps - I'm not saying there aren't any, I just don't know of any; Rolls Royce perhaps.
For some years I would solder a drain tap onto any car I had, but then they stopped me doing that with plastic headers.
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Sunday 21st October 2012 21:01 GMT MrT
Why single out Cavaliers...
It's the GM connection, since the later 900 model was built on Cavalier-C/Vectra-A platform. Same model name as the earlier 900 but a gradual degradation of the SAAB DNA, even if their engineers tried their best to avoid assymilation. I've owned Cavs (B and C) and tinkered with 900s of pre and post GM acquisition, so it's familiarity and because the two are cousins in part.
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Monday 22nd October 2012 13:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: SAABs were a proper engineered job...
There is the old anecdote that Saab did away with so much of the GM platform, that GMs beancounters were horrified. Heck the mk3 Cavalier wasn't even that bad a car!
The kind of people who diss Saabs are likely those for whom anything more interesting than a fleet-leased A3 diesel is scoffed at. (Dalton drove a 100, back when they were interesting, like a German Saab/Citroen).
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Monday 22nd October 2012 18:29 GMT MrT
Re: Audi 100...
... IIRC that was the one that had it's Cd figure in a badge on the rear three-quarter glass (0.30 or so).
My "most intesting cars" garage would include a SAAB, but probably a 99 Turbo, or maybe one of the very last 9-5s which were starting to look good after the 'spectacle' phase.
But then again I'd also have a Citroen DS23 (or SM if I had plenty of spare change), but also a Xantia Activa. To keep with the old/new theme I'd also buy the best Firenza I could (Droopsnoot would be perfect - saw one go for 13k last year, fond memories of my own non-DS '75 model) and also an Astra 888 Coupe. Plus a Golf Mk1 cabrio and Corrado G60.
The list could go on... Of course everyone has their own opinion of what they'd include. And they'd all be right for one reason or another :-)
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Friday 19th October 2012 13:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
Not a Jag
.. at least not since the UK had "two Jags" Prescott - can't get that association out of my head.
Wasn't it the new version of Casino Royal where Bond gets a DBS to play with (why oh why do they always have to wreck those cars :( )? Personally, I like that one best (although I'd spend that dosh on an RS5 with the new V8 - less prestige but at least the fuel bill is survivable and it feeds all that power into 4 wheels).
The Aston Martin design has been copied extensively, ironically starting with Jaguar - you can even see serious touches of it in the S5 series from Audi. However, what I never liked was Bond in a Beemer. That just did not work *at all*.
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Friday 19th October 2012 14:20 GMT TeeCee
"So Broccoli phoned Aston Martin and Bond ended up in a DB5 instead."
Hardly surprising. David Brown was not as financially adept as William Lyons and probably never considered what he could have sold the cars for.
When Astons changed hands recently, it was remarked at the time that it was the first time in the firm's history that it had been sold as a going concern, as opposed to being rescued from bankruptcy. As an illustration of the problems behind this, a short tale was related:
David Brown showed Clark Gable around the Aston factory and at the end of the tour, Gable said:
"Thank you Mr Brown, that was most interesting and I'd actually like to buy one of your cars. However, as the association with my name will obviously be of great benefit to your company, I am not prepared to pay any more than the cost price."
Brown's response was; "Thank you Mr Gable, that's very generous of you. Most of our clients pay around a thousand pounds less than that.".......
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Friday 19th October 2012 14:54 GMT TRT
Why hasn't he been given...
the chance to rip up the road in a Caterham 7? Or a Lotus 7 for that. In British Racing Green with a yellow intake shroud. And a thumping trumpet, bass and percussion track too as he drives into the secret underground entrance of MI6 to hand in his resignat... hang on, gone off on a wrong track here I think. ;-)
Icon: Vote for Number 6.
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Friday 19th October 2012 19:24 GMT J P
DP216/1
The car in the films isn't actually a DB5 - it's a works special, originally a Series 5 DB4 Vantage, modified as a DB5 prototype. And Goldfinger wasn't its first appearance; it was used in an episode of the Saint ("The Noble Sportsman", Jan 1963) first, and the same chassis was in Goldfinger, Thunderball and... the Cannonball Run (yes, it really _was_ Sean Connery's car that Roger Moore was messing around in...)
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Saturday 20th October 2012 03:50 GMT Herby
60's cars??
While those "English" cars are nice, I prefer good German engineering in the form of a nice Porsche 356 (the 1964 Carrera 2 liter one is pretty good). My dad had to settle for a 356SC. It was a convertible, and quite nice. Unfortunately, he did total it, but saved all the nice parts for his "other" car the one from two years before. Four wheel disk brakes with a nice independent rear suspension, and it does preform quite nicely, even if limited by a small (90 HP or so) engine. Unfortunately the local highway patrol doesn't take nicely to driving with the top down at 90 MPH (I believe it was a full moon as well). It was nice until the red lights from the rear spoiled it (it was 1971 or so).
Ah, the 60's. As the saying goes: If you remember the 60's, you weren't really there.
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Saturday 20th October 2012 14:03 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: 60's cars??
"..... I prefer good German engineering...." I'm always amused by Septics that trot out that line without ever actually having looked at the alternatives. The Porsche 356 was as toy compared to comparable British sportscar. My favourite is the Septic enthusiams for the BMW 2002, a car which in the UK was completely shown up by the Triumph Dolomite Sprint which also cost a lot less! In America, the 2002 was lauded as "amazingly good" and went on to form the basis for BMW's rise to a leader in luxury saloons. Now, if only the unions had STFU in the UK the Spetics would all be hankering to driving Triumphs and Jags rather than BMWs and Mercedes.
"....in the form of a nice Porsche 356...." The 356 would not have been plausible as it did not have the grunt to carry the bulletproofing and gadgets without being reduced to the pace of its VW Beatle progenitor. The DB5 did.
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Monday 22nd October 2012 20:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: 60's cars??
It wasn't the unions, it was idiotic design decisions and underinvestment. German cars were expected to get from A to B without needing attention by AA in the middle. I have absolutely no nostalgia for British cars. I drove my last one in 1989 whereupon my company went German and I was never roadsided in the next 50000 miles.
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Tuesday 23rd October 2012 18:08 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: 60's cars??
"It wasn't the unions....." Yes it was. British managers were spending ten times as much effort and money on dealing with the idiotically self-destructive unions compared to their German counters, despite the German workers being lower paid! The unions destroyed British industry and stupidly put themselves out of jobs.
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Saturday 20th October 2012 13:57 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: "I always wondered why Bond never drove a Jensen Interceptor."
Apart from Jensen not being seen as a gentleman's car producer, the proper Inteceptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_Interceptor) came much later by which time the Aston was the established Bond car, usually had a soggy automatic box, and an American engine better at making noise than real progress. The '50s Interceptor was just plain ugly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_Interceptor_%281950%29). The Astons had a long tradition of being rich boys' toys going back to the pre-War days which also made them a good choice. The later Jensen FF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_FF) was interesting and innovative but also spent most of the time falling to bits. Now, if you had said the little-known Jensen 541R from the '50s I would have more support for such a suggestion as the 541R was not only brutally fast but actually looked like it would eat slower cars that got in its way!
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Saturday 20th October 2012 08:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
I love the E-type Series 1 coupe - it's stunning. Just stunning. But for Bond, it's a little, well, gauche.
The DB5 is almost as perfect to look at as a DB4 and just so much more restrained than the E. No modern cars seem to match the elegance of the DB4/5.
The Lotus was undoubtedly very Roger Moore, but it wasn't very Bond. The first Turbos are to this day still very intense looking cars too.
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Monday 22nd October 2012 15:15 GMT lotus49
Re: Top Gear's Clarkson, a gentleman and a scholar ;-), on the DB5's top speed
There was an article in Autocar about 15 years ago on the original Autocar & Motor (as I think it was) test on the E Type. The test car did get to 150mph but it had been tweaked and was not standard. According to the article, Jaguar admitted this but not until many years later.
Not that it matters, it was an absolute stunner no matter how fast it went.
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Saturday 20th October 2012 20:47 GMT Peter Christy
A couple of years ago, my wife bought me a track day driving classic Le Mans cars, including a DB6 Vantage and an E-type.
The E-type was like driving a lorry! The clutch was heavy, the gearbox obstructive, and the steering so over-assisted, it felt like you were driving on ice! Totally devoid of any feedback or feeling whatsoever! The brakes were also viciously over-assisted!
In contrast, the DB6 was perfection! Everything fell perfectly to hand, the clutch was smooth, the gearbox a delight, and it *communicated* with you! You always knew exactly where you were with it - a real thoroughbred!
I also got to drive a D-type! It was a total contrast to the E-type, and an infinitely better car to drive!
OK, all these cars were track-day hacks, that had probably been flogged within an inch of their lives, but even that could not hide the sheer thoroughbred nature of the DB6. It was a joy to drive.
I know which I'm buying if my lottery numbers ever come up.....!!!
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Sunday 21st October 2012 13:49 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Peter Christy
"....The E-type was like driving a lorry!...." I suspect you drove one of the later V-12 cars as the straight-six model was actually the nicest handler. The early 3.8-litre cars had a shorter wheelbase which helped the cornering, and the later cars had their suspension jacked up to bring the bumpers up to the height required for American regulations. The ones for American markets usually have big rubber blocks as front bumpers and do not have headlight covers. The 3.8s have a lot less power but are much better through the twisty bits, but the big 5.3-litre V-12 will outdrag even many modern sportscars and most sports saloons. I had an uncle that had a two-seat 3.8 coupe which he used almost daily for ten years before he upgraded to a 5.3 covertible in the early '70s, drove it for a week, then went back to the Jaguar showroom and asked for his 3.8 back! TBH, it was probably the prettiest car I've ever seen, but was a real wolf-in-showdog's-clothing, being capable of being seriously quick! Unfortunately, when my uncle died, his wife sold it to an exporter before I could scrape toegther the cash to buy it off her, and it went to Vegas. Probably a fitting environment for such a pretty car.
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