back to article Education Secretary Gove: Tim Berners-Lee 'created the INTERNET'

Facebook, Microsoft, IBM and BT have been signed up by the Education Secretary Michael Gove - who thinks Tim Berners Lee is the "creator of the internet" - to offer industry insights into the type of computer science skills British school kids need to be equipped with for the workplace. A £20,000 scholarship was also announced …

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          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Pedant

            @Pete B - Those drives are still memory, it's just they rather incontinently became write only memory...

            http://www2.vmi.edu/Faculty/squirejc/Research/IC_Datasheets/digital_cmos/Write%20Only%20Memory.pdf

        1. dajames
          Boffin

          Re: Pedant

          "Hard drive is NOT memory." - Errr.... yes it is!

          WIWAL "memory" meant magnetic cores -- what we call a "hard drive" today would have been "backing store". The distinction was that the "memory" could be addressed directly by the processor, while anything in backing store had to be copied into "memory" before it could be processed.

          These days, of course, the main system RAM of a PC is in a sense "backing store" as there are at least two levels of cache between it and the CPU. Funny how terminology wears out!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Pedant

            I still use "backing store" to describe cloud storage without being more specific.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Mr Anonymous

              Re: Pedant

              > I still use "backing store" to describe cloud storage without being more specific.

              Cloud storage, that'll be an HTTP/FTP server on the Internet then.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Pedant

                No, it isn't. My databases and my system images are stored on logical volumes in some attached storage farm somewhere in cyberspace. Those logical volumes are the backing store. I don't keep working data on my servers, as that way a new image can be rolled out whenever necessary, by replicating an image from the backing store. I can also backup databases either by on-line replication or by making a copy of an offline database on another volume. Do try to keep up with this cloud stuff, dear boy.

          2. Jaybus

            Re: Pedant

            Much of the literature used the term "secondary storage", rather than "backing store". Secondary, in the sense that it could not be accessed across the memory bus by either a CPU or a DMA controller. Modern CPUs indeed only preform instructions on cached memory, and a memory controller is used to move data across the memory bus between cache and RAM. Nevertheless, system memory is still accessed via the memory bus, whereas secondary storage, such as a hard drive, is not. In any case the memory controller is an integral part of the CPU chip these days.

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Pedant

          "you actually live in a world where most websites don't track your sessions?"

          Er, yeah. There's an option in my browser to deny them access to the cookies they need in order to do that. HTTP is a stateless protocol.

          And apropos the original remark that led us down this path: You do not "log on" to anything without some pretence at proving that you are the same person as you were last time. If there's no "state", there's no "memory of who you were last time".

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Pedant

            I think you'll find it uses TCP so it IS stateful.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: Pedant

              When I worked at Radio Shack in Canada, I got a brief North America regionalisation briefing by my manager. One thing I recall her saying is "And if people come in here asking about batteries for the convertor, they usually mean the remote control for the cable convertor; it was the first battery remote many people had seen so they started calling the remote the "convertor" and the convertor itself they called a "cable box". Just so you know. Oh, and the remote for the TV? That's the clicker. Even if it doesn't."

            2. feanor

              Re: Pedant

              It's stateful at Layer4 perhaps, but as already pointed out to be "logged on" implies authentication of a user. So he was talking about stateful at the application layer, which HTTP is not. When you provide user specific authetication you are considered to be "logged on"

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Pedant

                @feanor

                I tried to troll, and failed.

            3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

              Re: "I think you'll find it uses TCP so it IS stateful."

              Running a stateless protocol over a stateful one does not make it stateful, any more than sending broadcast packets over a point-to-point link makes them unicast, or using perfect grammar makes an erroneous statement any less wrong.

            4. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Cost

              Originally it was said "You do log on to a website, it's just the browser handles all the hand-shaking for you."

              Now it appears to arguing for the sake of arguing. So my tuppence is that even if you call the connection stateful, it is only with the machine and not the webserver service running the http service which normal users call....a website.

              Either way you are accessing a website. Logging in/on to a website is something is something different.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Pedant

          And "brightness" only adjusts the screen, not the user..

          (saw that somewhere)

        4. Mr Anonymous

          Re: Pedant

          A hard drive is mass storage.

      1. No, I will not fix your computer
        Thumb Down

        Re: Hard drive is NOT memory.

        That is being rather picky, I always used to say (to people who didn't understand comupters) that computers have short-term memory for things you're working on, lost when you turn the power off (RAM) and long-term memory for things that you want to store away (hard drive/floppy/cd).

        Besides, if a disk isn't memory remind me what CDROM stands for.....?

        (ps. "retarded" is a rather non PC term, PC... get it?)

        1. Steve Knox
          Boffin

          Re: Hard drive is NOT memory.

          Besides, if a disk isn't memory remind me what CDROM stands for.....?

          As far back as I can recall, CD-ROM stood for Compact Disc - Read Only Medium.

          While wikipedia may disagree, the standards (ISO 9660/ECMA-119 and ISO 10149/ECMA-130) do not expand the acronym (they're also rather inconsistent on the use of the dash...) -- so absent an official definition, I would choose the logical one: CD-ROM certainly is a medium; whether or not it is memory depends on the very term under debate. It does not make sense to use the debated term to define a term being used to justify one position on the term under debate -- therein lies circular logic, so I will continue to define the acronym as I have above, until an authoritative source can be found.

      2. Tony Gosling
        Angel

        and "hits" are not a sensible measure of how popular a website is (should be unique visitors or at least pageviews)

  1. Goldmember
    Thumb Up

    Ha ha ha

    That link to the Escort agency directly from the DfE site is fantastic.

    Well done Gove & Co, your incompetence has certainly brightened up my Friday. And if you carry on like this, you'll make sure my job (as a programmer) is safe from competition for MANY years to come.

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Ha ha ha

      Obviously a page layout problem, it should have been in the "Government Procurement" section just above.

      1. frank ly

        @Phil Re: Ha ha ha

        I'd have thought 'Temporary Staff', for various reasons :)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ha ha ha

        Somebody has to hire all those helpful short term very personal assistants for when the armaments industry needs to do a spot of flogging military tat to foreign governments. Surely this is just part of the service?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Facepalm

      Re: Ha ha ha

      Decide whether to buy or lease ICT hardware - these two options can involve very different costs.

      Decide whether to buy equipment in conjunction with an installation and testing service, or even as a whole managed service.

      Identify whether the supplier is able to provide cost effective maintenance and servicing.

      If buying more than just equipment set up a service level agreement, stating what is expected from the supplier - include targets such as, response times and what to do if equipment is proving unreliable or faulty.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ha ha ha

        I'm sorry, is this about ICT hardware or the escort service?

        Buying, leasing or renting does involve very different upsides and downsides in both cases. As do the rest of your considerations.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    nice dress

    is all :-D

  3. Anonymous Cowerd
    Facepalm

    *facepalm*

    sigh

  4. disgruntled yank

    He can get a column with the Wall Street Journal

    A few months ago, a columnist there decided the government was not responsible for the development of the Internet. His evidence was largely Xerox PARC, which developed "the ethernet". The tech community was not impressed.

  5. Captain TickTock
    Trollface

    He's been reading Dan Brown

    In Angels & Demons, CERN proudly claims to have invented the internet.

    So it must be true!

  6. Christian Berger

    Education needs to start from a base

    That's why I'm all for mandatory programming classes. Just like with math, school children need to have a basic understanding what a computer is.

    A school child can watch "The Numberwang Code" and understand that it's all complete nonsense. They know that numbers are neither good or evil or neutral. They understand that there are no deadly numbers. That won't make them mathematicians, not even by a long shot, but it gives them some basic understanding.

    However when it comes to IT people are clueless. They believe in cyber terrorism as if IT systems somehow had intrinsic vulnerabilities. They believe in "copy protection" although computers are more or less designed to copy data. They probably even believe that "privacy" settings at Facebook mean anything to that company, or that they somehow can magically make data disappear from the Internet.

    If children would have a basic understanding of what a computer is, and if they would have understood a basic loop, they could make informed decisions in their lives. Then you can start teaching about such media and they will understand why they are like they are.

    However there's little profit in this, therefore politicians won't allocate any resources for it. It's just the future of your society, no politician cares about that.

    1. Elmer Phud
      Boffin

      Re: Education needs to start from a base

      Yeah but . . .

      Gove seems to not understand the difference between ICT and Computer Science.

      Best not to tell him, though, about primary schools using things like Scratch - poor lamb would only get confused.

    2. NomNomNom

      Re: Education needs to start from a base

      Mandatory programming classes at secondary school is the kind of move needed if this country was serious about dominating the technology sector. We could have too. I am sure that if the government had made programming and computing a mandatory proper GCSE subject 20 years ago the UK would now dominate the technology sector. Many of the Googles, microsofts (well perhaps not that one), Apples, Facebooks and Twitters would all have been invented in the UK.

      Of course our government and the complicit population are fucking morons led by a ruthlessly self-interested media. There is zero strategic thinking in government in this country. Perhaps because MPs don't need to know jack shit to do their jobs and only have to worry about surviving elections, so I suspect they don't even understand the need to TRAIN the population for specific skills as a strategic move for the future (long after they've retired). They probably just consider education a process involving reading shakespeare to get a certificate which you can trade in to get an office job.

      So whereas Blair could have introduced a radical change in school to introduce subjects that would educate the population towards the obvious direction of technology, we instead get an Iraq War. Brilliant strategic thinking. They seriously are a bunch of fucking twats.

      1. Piro Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Education needs to start from a base

        Well said, no argument from me.

    3. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      Re: Education needs to start from a base

      "Just like with math, "

      and pelling.

  7. edge_e
    FAIL

    I can't believe this would happen...

    Mistaking Tim Berners Lee for the creator of the internet would be like mistaking a blind man with a white stick for a psycho with a samurai sword

    1. Thomas 4

      Re: I can't believe this would happen...

      In fairness I would derive a certain satisfaction from watching Michael Gove get tasered though.

    2. NomNomNom

      Re: I can't believe this would happen...

      In fairness, in movies the "harmless" blind ones always turn out to be the most dangerous kung-fu master. If I was the cop I would use that exact defense.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Berners-lee invented the world wide web, but he also invented the internet.

    Definition here: - The intern net, a device for capturing gifted interns so that they can work at CERN

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tim Berners-Lee? I thought everyone knows it was Al Gore.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BCS

    Given the outputs I have seen from the BCS over the years I don't think I would consider them any more qualified to comment on the needs of the computer industry than Gove.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Nev

    But is Gove as bad as Jeremy Hunt...

    Who believes taking pure water can cure all and any illness...?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > Education Secretary Gove: Tim Berners-Lee 'created the INTERNET'

    Tim Berners-Lee: Education Secretary Gove 'fucking idiot'.

  13. james 68

    heh

    gotta admit though. its a lot closer to the truth than what american schoolchildren are taught about how al gore invented the internet using a series of magical mystery tubes.

  14. nigel 15
    Facepalm

    The Distinction....

    ...between WWW and internet is actually relatively esoteric in the mainstream. it being fairly common to use the two interchangeably.

    hardly something to scoff with haughty derision at.

    1. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: The Distinction....

      One is a platform, the other an application. It would be like confusing "a computer" for "Microsoft Excel".

      -A.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The Distinction....

        @Captain Veg. No, it really wouldn't.

        1. feanor

          Re: The Distinction....

          Yes, it really would. The Internet is a physical network and all the logical structures related to packet layer communications. The World Wide Web is an application. As is DNS, FTP, Gopher, email etc. The two are entirely distinct.

          Its really like saying that the telephone network is the same as the emergency services because you access the emergency service via the telephone network.

          Derp.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: The Distinction....

            >The Internet is a physical network and all the logical structures related to packet layer communications.

            Or the internet is a protocol on top of the wired network - or actually these days generally on top of some other packet protocol.

            It's friday and I'm feeling pedantic

      2. browntomatoes

        Re: The Distinction....

        I think it would be more like confusing "using a car" with "using the road" (or even "inventing cars" with "inventing roads").

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