back to article Death Star dinosaur aliens could rule galaxy

Rather than dying out in the dimly lit aftermath of a ginormous asteroid impact, dinosaurs on Earth may have instead spread to other planets and built a terrifying space-conquering empire. Organic chemistry expert Prof Ronald Breslow has suggested from new research into DNA that the Jurassic Park monsters may in fact be living …

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  1. Fintan

    So all it takes is for random DNA to land on any given planet?

    <Quote> the trillion-ton meteorite impact that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago may have blasted off small bits of dinosaur DNA out into space. And quite a lot of those bits of dino-carrying rock will have landed on amenable planets, say the paper's authors</Quote>

    Does this mean that someone bleeds, puts some cells in a jar, takes a dump or whatever, sends it out into space and waits for it to crash onto a planet it will spontanaeously bring forth life?

    To bring this into the realms of being expirementation, what if we drop some road kill on mars. will it :

    a. sit there and be cold forever.

    b. spring forth life?

    Honestly, im curious. it seems a tad oversimplified.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So all it takes is for random DNA to land on any given planet?

      @Fintan: "Does this mean that someone bleeds, puts some cells in a jar, takes a dump or whatever, sends it out into space and waits for it to crash onto a planet it will spontanaeously bring forth life?"

      It's almost a certainty that life has at least visited the other planets in our own solar system - it may have even survived. Some forms of lichen, for example, can survive perfectly well in space (exposed to the vacuum and radiation). Aside from meteors blasting stuff into space, it's possible we've even transmitted something in the equipment we've sent to Mars etc.

      1. RISC OS
        WTF?

        Re: So all it takes is for random DNA to land on any given planet?

        "... Some forms of lichen, for example, can survive perfectly well in space (exposed to the vacuum and radiation). Aside from meteors blasting stuff into space, it's possible we've even transmitted something in the equipment we've sent to Mars etc. ..."

        Yeah but what kind of super touch lichen would survive entering another planets atmosphere on the back of some flamming space rock... surely it would burn up on re-entry?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So all it takes is for random DNA to land on any given planet?

          @RISC OS: "what kind of super touch lichen would survive entering another planets atmosphere on the back of some flamming space rock"

          If something is ejected from the surface of the earth by a huge impact, there's no reason to suppose it is necessarily fixed to a rock. And because there is no friction to slow an object in space, it will travel freely until it's drawn into the gravitational field of a larger body. The relatively low density of something like lichen should allow it to decelerate without igniting and slowly drift to the surface. Huge quantities of dust settle on the earth in this manner. You might also recollect that a rock from Mars was found on Earth, and was initially thought to contain the remains of a living organism. The same process could easily happen in reverse, i.e. from Earth to Mars. But it could always have drifted right out of our solar system too.

    2. The Indomitable Gall

      Actually, no.

      The real danger is that the dino-DNA depositing debris reaches an inhabited planet before the terrestrial broadcast of Jurassic Park is successfully decoded and some foolish scientists attempt to clone the DNA. Of course, the back-to-front amino acids that the scientists will no doubt be composed of is likely to give T Rex a bad case of heartburn, but that'll only serve to make him even crankier....

  2. TheOtherHobbes

    And then...

    ...they come back in their UFOs to farm us.

    See also David Icke, etc.

    Actually any space-faring culture would have to be industrial [1], and any industrial culture is going to leave traces that should still be visible - even after 65 million years.

    So probably not then.

    But it's still a good story. :)

    [1] Unless they use magic, obviously.

    1. John Stirling

      Re: And then...

      After 65 million years even the slow tectonic plates are going to have moved a couple of thousand kilometres, and the quick ones double that. That means most of the evidence of an industrial civilisation is going to have been subducted back under the crust.

      Sort of a clean up and start again system - a complete renewal every 100 million years or so.

      1. The Indomitable Gall

        Re: And then...

        "After 65 million years even the slow tectonic plates are going to have moved a couple of thousand kilometres, and the quick ones double that. That means most of the evidence of an industrial civilisation is going to have been subducted back under the crust."

        Aha, the same process by which all evidence of the existence of dinosaurs was destroyed, meaning that we now have no physical evidence they ever existed. No fossilised bones, no fossilised footprints, no tar-pit or amber specimens. In fact, with so little evidence, we never even postulated their existence or invented the word dinosaur!

    2. Matt Piechota

      Re: And then...

      "Actually any space-faring culture would have to be industrial [1], and any industrial culture is going to leave traces that should still be visible - even after 65 million years."

      Duh, the earth was a hunting preserve with a very strict "Leave no trace" policy. :)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    No way could a T-Rex fly a spaceship.

    Their little arms couldn't reach the controls. What a ridiculous idea.

    1. RISC OS
      Happy

      Re: No way could a T-Rex fly a spaceship.

      Tell that to calvin and hobbs

      http://e621.net/post/show/75913

    2. Martin Maloney
      Coat

      Re: No way could a T-Rex fly a spaceship.

      And thus their spaceships would become (I should be ashamed) Tyrannosaurus wrecks?

  4. foo_bar_baz

    Hmm

    Is it deterministic that dinosaurs must evolve first before mammals? Disperse some amino acids to 100 suitable planets, and dinosaurs spring forth in all of them. Kill all dinosaurs, and mammals will take their place?

    What if the planets are suitable for life, but provide different stimuli for evolution? One might favours flying creatures, another could be 95% covered by water. Can't the same amino acids seed totally different kinds of life forms with different appearances, organs and reproductive systems?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The dinosaurs are still with us, you just can't see them. The asteroid impact put them slightly out of phase with us.

    ...best put my tin foil hat back on...

    1. DJO Silver badge

      Yes they are, all birds are directly descended from dinosaurs and they have not really changed a lot. Don't forget that the majority of dinosaurs were not 20 foot monsters but small beasties occupying the same ecological niches that small mammals occupy today.

    2. Lupus

      Is that a plumber's tinfoil hat?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Extinction Level Events

    OK, so if the dinosaurs hadn't been wiped out they might still rule the Earth. But mass extinctions happened quite regularly, so surely the dinosaurs themselves only got a look in because the previous apex species (amphibians?) got eliminated. Perhaps the galaxy is really run by newts and axolotls...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Extinction Level Events

      You've seen our Cabinet I trust?

  7. System 10 from Navarone
    FAIL

    super-dinosaurs with iPads

    If they have iPads, they will NOT be super-dinosaurs

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Devil

    Why not want to meet one?

    Saying that you wouldn't want to meet a space wanderin' dino is so reptilist.

    Just because they had big teeth and claws, it doesn't mean they haven't found peace and a desire to get on with other life forms.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    homochirality

    look out for the tea party types confused condemnation of gay dinosours!

    1. The Indomitable Gall

      Re: homochirality

      As they're also likely to be creationists, their response might be particularly interesting, when it come to dinosaur extinction....

  10. Primus Secundus Tertius

    D or L amino acids

    In an equilibrium situation, both forms would be equally stable. The process called racemisation would turn an all-D or all-L starting point into a mixture of 50% each.

    But the living cell is not an equilibrium situation: it is what my physics lecturers called a dissipative system. This may be in a steady state, but relies on a more or less steady flow of energy.

    Within a dissipative system it is possible to imagine that an imbalance, which started at random, could be magnified until it was totally one-sided.

    Biochemistry textbooks explain how the complex molecules of life have to be consistently D or L so that they end up in consistent shapes. As examples, this is needed by enzymes; and is needed to get a backbone for DNA.

    There are some questions which arise from this comment.

    1. Could a steady state dissipative system be set up in a laboratory to synthesise lactic acid or some similar biochemical as one stereoisomer?

    2. If so, would its output be random, or is there some subtle effect which would produce always one stereoisomer?

    3. Could a whole living cell work with the opposite stereochemistry to what we find in nature?

  11. CAPS LOCK
    Happy

    "The dinosaurs are still with us, you just can't see them". You can. The sky if full of the blighters.

  12. perlcat
    Coat

    Relying on monsters from outer space to make your theory work:

    So old school.

    The "we're all left-handed" because of a single seeding event from a source that contains an even distribution requires something much like a limited gene pool to work. In order to have an ecosystem develop an almost exclusive distribution of one type from a starting source that has an even distribution requires a VERY small sample, as with a 50% distribution, every additional lichen/bacteria has a chance of being the wrong type. I have never been able to have more than a few coins turn up the same way in successive coin tosses. That's the nature of 50/50 odds.

    In other words, the only way this theory would work is if one meteorite with less than a dozen bacterium/whatever started the whole thing. With a starting sample that small, it is about indistinguishable from having originated on its own from one happy left-handed start via lightning strike in a bowl of primordial soup.

    If external seeding is a factor, and seeding would actually work so easily (one thing to plant, and entirely another to harvest...), and life in the universe has an equal chance of originating in either handedness, then seeded planets most likely would have a distribution of both types, a billion years being a short time for the living species we're able to comprehend, the universe being that big, and time in a geological/astronomic sense being an entirely different thing and all.

    I'd think that a greater rarity of life-origination events and some functional benefit from leftedness makes a far more likely explanation. Seeding events where right-handed seeds are destroyed in transit/atmospheric entry would also fit the model, and I should wonder if seeding, handedness, and origination are not three different things -- seeding may be simple 'cross pollination' that drives a more rapid evolutionary cycle using compatible seeds, and the mechanism preferring handedness being as yet unexplained.

    Its God's sinister plot to populate the universe, I tell ya!

    Yeah, I know. IGMC.

  13. Johnny Canuck

    May I be the first

    to welcome our returning techno- dinosaur overlords.

  14. Alan Brown Silver badge
    Devil

    May I be the first

    To invite one of our remaining dino descendants for dinner.....

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The article leaves me with one question...

    Did someone recently discover and watched V or something ?

    Now, while his theory seems plausible to me (if DNA has landed here then in theory a big meteor strike could have left our planet also) he assumes that the dna strands actually survived in space as well as found a planet which met all the right characteristics to develop.

    However, during that incident we were already well on our way in the evolution process. These "earth-founded lizard aliens" would have to start all over from scratch. Thus even the idea that these strands may - at this time - have evolved into a space traveling society seems a bit far fetched to me.

  16. Local Group
    Meh

    There is only one conclusion

    Dinosaur ex machina

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    DNA of the living dead?

    If life can burst forth from DNA on a suitable planet, then why didn't the dinosaurs re-generate from all their DNA that was splattered around on Earth instead of just, err, ... well dying out, really. Similarly, I haven't noticed even the slightest tendency for dodos or mammoths to spring back into existence.

    As for the chirality of life's chemicals, I've always seen it as just a case of spontaneous symmetry breaking. It's advantageous for all life to use the same system - so you can eat things easily (food chains being a pretty fundamental feature of Earth-based life). Therefore edible living stuff has to be all left, or all right. The choice is down to chance.

  18. Uncle Siggy
    Thumb Up

    'dile Rockin'

    I for one welcome our reptilian overlords.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Dinosaurs in flying saucers??

    AWESOME!!! The only thing that would be cooler is Dinosaurs in X-Wings.....

    1. Swarthy

      Re: Dinosaurs in flying saucers??

      But on the horizon surrounding the shoppers

      Came the deafening roar of chickens in choppers

  20. Jim Birch
    Coffee/keyboard

    Dinosaurs, but nice

    The success of humans is dependent on the ability to cooperate. Sophisticated technology requires many hands and minds to work together with a reduced tendency to exploit, threaten, kill and/or eat their neighbors. Of course, it's an ongoing battle between exploiting your fellows as resources or partnering up to get the big stuff done because the many biological payoffs are with the exploit and cheat strategy.

    In the end, it's the dinosaurs/newts/whatever that have evolved the cooperation genes along with brains that will be able to build spaceships. I doubt they'll think we are just a new type of breakfast.

  21. Rambo 1

    Posleen?

    I love John Ringo SicFi novels too but I don't take them this seriously. Heck, we haven't even found the Higgs Boson particle yet! Anybody who has read these novels knows that is when the wheels come off this thing.

  22. Arclight

    WIlliam Hill

    I've noticed a lot people throwing around probability as reason why life would have ET origins, speaking from the perspective of a true layman surely the probability of:

    Life starts on Melmac (Which is a billion in 1 event as someone else has already used as an arguement against earth origin)

    Melmac has massive catastophic event

    Small chunks fly into space and with a few bits of Alf strapped on

    Tiny bits of Alf manage to survive the millions of years flying through space

    Tiny Alf rock manages to manages to find its way to earth (space is really big. You may think its a long way to the shops, but thats just peanuts to space (DA))

    Alf manages to survive the intense heat of entering the earths atmosphere

    Each one of those steps has a massive probability of failure, surely probability actually favours life starting here?

    1. Nigel 11

      Re: WIlliam Hill

      That depends on the nature of the first self-replicating molecular assembly that gets chemistry started towards life. It certainly wasn't DNA or RNA or life as we know it. It almost certainly doesn't exist any more on this planet, because life as we do know it would eat it or disrupt it.

      Some speculate it was a clay-like mineral. If so, it might be remarkably tolerant of interstellar radiation and re-entry. Panspermia is a perfectly respectable theory. However, it's all complete speculation. We have no data to prove or disprove it with.

  23. Martin Yirrell

    Bonkers

    What else is there to say?

  24. <a|a>=1
    Linux

    DNA Damage

    Life on earth might have been originated on Mars but cosmic radiation would destroy the DNA in the millions of years it would take for a rock to travel between solar systems.

  25. Andy Fletcher

    Intelligence

    It hasn't actually been shown to be all that useful. Our dinosaurs never bothered with it and their time on the planet eclipses ours into insignificance. I can buy that life may be inevitable given the right mix of elements and conditions, but I don't buy that intelligence is an inevitable byproduct. There's just so little intelligence around as it is.

    1. Nigel 11
      Thumb Down

      Re: Intelligence

      You're generalizing from one datum (and the experiment hasn't been running long enough to give any confidence in predicting the long-term outcome). Maybe intelligence always self-destructs (one solution to the Fermi paradox), and maybe it doesn't. Unknown at present.

      If you take a wider definition of intelligence, one can observe that the invertebrates have evolved intelligence up to at least the level of a cat, completely independantly of our branch of the tree of life. (Octopuses, if you were wondering). They've also been observed using tools.

  26. Nigel 11
    Boffin

    Chirality and symmetry breaking

    There's no mystery at the chemical level. L-amino acids form polymers (proteins) with other L-amino acids, and D-amino acids with other D-amino acids. These chains then fold up into spirals and sheets. Spontaneous bonding between L- and D- amino-acids is chemically unfavorable, because the molecules don't fit together properly.

    So, if the first self-replicator was L-based, that would have fixed life (or pre-life) on the L-form, and soon the D-acids in the environment were reprocessed by it/them into small non-chiral molecules (i.e. used as food). Once the L-basis of life was established, it could never change. L-based life can't assemble things out of D-bases, but it can and does use them as fuel when they arise spontaneously.

    The deep question is why was the first self-replicator to use amino-acid polymers based on the L-form? The answer may be that symmetry was broken at random. The pencil balanced on its point had to fall one way or the other. If so, and if we can ever find any other life to study, there's a 50% chance it'll be based on D-amino acids.

    However, there's a much deeper broken symmetry that is itself chiral. The weak nuclear force. Because of this, the binding energy of L-amino acids is very slightly greater than that of D-amino acids. In a mixture formed by inorganic chemistry from achiral precursor molecules, there will be about 100 more L-molecules per mole than D (i.e. 1 part in 6.10^21). Was this enough to tip the balance? Is L-based life universal, thanks to a physical symmetry that broke almost immediately after the big bang itself? Can we ever know?

    Back to trivia. In a few cases some living organisms manufacture an L- molecule and others the same molecule in D-form. What's the difference between lemon flavour and lime flavour? One is L-, the other is D-limonene! Why is 7-up "Limon" flavoured? Because in a chemistry lab, it's far easier to cook up a racemic (50/50) mixture, and that's what your fizzy water is flavoured with.

  27. stuartnz
    Thumb Down

    The real problem with the coverage of this piece

    Was, I think, quite well highlighted in this response

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/04/alt-text-science-sensationalism/

    It makes me wonder whether next month's issue will include a fairy cake recipe for those who want to build a Total Perspective Vortex in their backyard.

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