back to article Windows 8 tablet freezes in Microsoft keynote demo

You've got to hand it to Kirill Tatarinov, the head of Microsoft's ERP division. The Russian Rocket was cool as a cucumber on Monday when a demo of the Windows 8 Metro UI running on a touch-screen tablet crashed and burned during the opening keynote of Convergence 2012. Microsoft is indeed making big, bold bets with the …

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            1. Chemist

              Re: So what /should/ have been done?

              "And hope that when X starts post-boot it doesn't freeze again."

              Don't let it start X when you reboot ! - an installation that you can't bring up as a terminal session if you want to is a royal pain when hardware gives problems.

              1. TheMidnighToker

                Re: So what /should/ have been done?

                just to expand you can change the runlevel to not start all services:

                http://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/5.2/Installation_Guide/s1-grub-runlevels.html

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: So what /should/ have been done?

              cntrl-alt-f1?

              1. Chemist

                Re: So what /should/ have been done?

                I've certainly never known it NOT to work - except when a keyboard connection failed/or pulled out.

                Oddly enough that always used to need a reboot - recently though it just seems to accept the keyboard being replugged - I've not tested it rigorously though

                1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

                  @Chemist Re: So what /should/ have been done?

                  Reminds me of the old IBM PC error "Keyboard error - Press F1 to continue"

                  The old ones are the best!

              2. TheMidnighToker
                Linux

                Re: So what /should/ have been done?

                Ctrl + Alt + F1 can occasionally fail if the application is locking keyboard input.

                Alt+SysRq completely rarely never fails though. + REISUB for best results :)

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key#.E2.80.9CREISUB.E2.80.9D_.E2.80.93_safe_reboot

                If you're suffering from anything but a kernel panic then `RE` is usually enough to kill the application and gui allowing you to restart the desktop without having to reboot.

                PS> e17 is the only window manager I know of that lets you restart it on segfault without loosing applications / window placement... which I like. :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Windows

        @Miek

        True, yet that is what triggered my (still unanswered) question...

        On Windows 7 I've ran into some ickyness as well from time to time (self-inflicted, the system will go haywire if you run PowerShell as admin while calling some specific methods on wmi or com objects) but so far always managed to get out of that through use of control-alt-delete.

        It raises an event which is then picked up by the OS core which then allows you to perform a few tasks (lock computer, logout, restart, start task manager). However, one would expect that Win8 would also have such a key event.

        But this story seems to indicate that there are no (hardware) keys which one can use to reset the OS. Which I think could be a very big problem if the device becomes totally unresponsive.

        Sure; worst case scenario you can always simply take out the batteries and then power it back on, but for something which is marketed as user friendly that seems a bit drastic to me.

        1. El Andy

          Re: @Miek

          All previous Windows Tablets have a Security button that does the same as CTRL+ALT+DELETE. I'd presume something similar will be present on Windows 8 hardware too.

    1. StooMonster
      Stop

      Re: So what /should/ have been done?

      I run two Windows 7 64-bit computers, and both of them have had the OS destroyed by Microsoft Updates. i.e. got into infinite loops that won't break and cannot be reversed. Both times called MSDN support and eventual 'official' problem resolution was format hard drive and reinstall OS.

      What happens on a Windows 8 tablet when the OS gets shagged by Microsoft Updates, which is inevitable as far as I am concerned?

      I can make Win7 64-bit BSoD on demand, if I uninstall AMD's CAP application support it always BSoD and the only way I can remove it to update to latest version is go through the Registry and do it manually -- I am not alone, there are plenty of people with same issue on support forums. There's also a couple of programs that BSoD Win7 when they crash too.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A video of the demo

    Is there a video of the demo online anywhere?

  2. Arctic fox
    Windows

    Hold the front page! Beta version is buggy.

    Pope, bears etc.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hold the front page! Beta version is buggy.

      You don't think they rehearsed this more then a few times before the demo

      I hope MS is not that stupid - hey lets try something totally new tl show off what we are pinning the company's future on. Then again this will; not be the first time I underestimated the stupidly of some people.

      And why did it just lock up - I would hope the OS is advanced far enough to recover from most errors.

      Maybe they are so desperate to get this out the door it was a case of "clean compile - ship it"!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Windows

      @Artic

      Yes, but that's not the issue here.

      Beta or not; Windows has always had options to raise an event to get it to break whatever it was doing. Heck; Windows 7 is very decent (IMO) when it comes to process management; not saying that it will never happen nor that it is impossible; but it has become a /lot/ harder for a mere application to render the whole OS useless.

      So seeing that very behavior happening on Windows 8 seemingly without any means to get the system to forcefully close or kill the rampant program doesn't exactly show much reliability. NOT when this is supposed to succeed Windows 7, an OS which even critics have deemed quite decent.

      Sure; its a beta. But its not as if they rewrote the entire OS from the ground up.

  3. Aaron Em

    Don't see why the fuss

    Anyone who's ever done a demo knows they're what Murphy has instead of church services.

    1. Arctic fox
      Unhappy

      Re: Don't see why the fuss

      Indeed. Demos attract Murphy's imps like iron filings to a magnet - been there, done that, God help me!

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Don't see why the fuss

        It's written in Murphy's Laws:

        a) The chance of a demo crashing is an increasing function of the number of people watching

        b) The chances of a demo running flawlessly is proportional to the inverse of the importance

    2. revdjenk
      Angel

      Re: Don't see why the fuss

      Except when you attempt something requiring new tech in a church service ...

  4. Kanhef

    Acronyms

    Would you mind spelling them out at least once? It makes the article much more comprehensible to people who don't happen to work in the same field. I was rather confused as to why Microsoft has an Estimated Retail Price division, and why they cared about Cardiac Rhythm Management software.

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: Acronyms

      My personal favourite was a paper on X-ray astronomy. It took me a while to realise the paper wasn't talking about Supernova Remnants (SNR) but Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)...

    2. Irongut

      Re: Acronyms

      If you don't know what ERP and CRM are then you don't need to read this article. In fact you really don't want to know any more, ERP and CRM systems from any vendor were actually written in hades.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Acronyms

        I don't know what they are either

  5. Silent but Deadly
    WTF?

    Social Interaction in a business environment?

    Pretty funny coming from a software company.

    Most of the IT people I know, particulalry Dev's, are the last ones that I would turn to for advice on Social Interaction, real or digital.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft products crashing?

    <lie mode=on>That NEVER happens<lie mode=off>

  7. pcsupport

    I'm sure most of you will have installed and tried beta software before, had in hang, realised that the important part is the word BETA, rebooted and tried again.

    So why when a Microsoft beta crashes do you all suddenly start ripping the company and software apart?

    CUT THEM SOME SLACK, IT'S A BETA VERSION

    1. Piro Silver badge

      No, there's no slack to be cut

      It's built in the same old Windows we've known for some time.

      The fact they threw together a shoddy new front-end with a new API is no excuse at all for it being a pile of crap.

      If it was Microsoft's first ever product, you could say.. CUT THEM SOME SLACK..

      But it's not. They're a huge company with a ton of employees and money, they've been making operating systems for a while.. To be fair, it could be a hardware issue, maybe we'll never know.

      But you would hope that a demo is rehearsed to make sure the machine is stable.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh please

    To all the people saying "this is only a beta version cut them some slack"...

    I thought this was a consumer preview? Softies don't like the term beta version this isn't Siri you know this is the future of EVERY device you own......

    Microsoft have already taken a massive blow to their reputation by forcing this Metro interface on everyone rather than just tablet / phone users and now they've damaged their credibility further by demoing a tablet that's managed to crash on the 'improved' codebase of Window 8. This is more egg on the face for Microsoft and if they keep making stupid decisions like demoing half baked products using an interface very few people are excited about then they could find themselves struggling to get people off Windows 7.

    It's just a shame OS X and Linux aren't viable alternatives for average customers because there's a chance to pounce here for a rival, but nobody is in a strong position (and don't say Apple because the iPad isn't a proper computer and their real computers are too expensive. And don't give me any BS about the Mac Mini the thing doesn't even have a CD drive FFS)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: CD drive FFS

      Oh please

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: CD drive FFS

        You obviously don't think a CD/DVD drive in 2012 is needed, but your wrong. Nearly everyone I know who has bought a Mac Mini has it connected up to their tele, but without a DVD drive all your existing TV shows & Films don't work, so once again your at the mercy of iTunes for your media content and the AppStore for your software.

        While the both do have some merits it's clear that by removing the drive it's a further step from Apple to ensure you can't stray far from them

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: CD drive FFS

          It's "you're" you stupid ****

        2. Rob Beard
          Headmaster

          Re: CD drive FFS

          Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Apple fan and I think for what you get with the Mac Mini it's a little over priced... BUT...

          I have a eMachines Nettop running as a media PC (as it happens it's running Mythbuntu and XBMC) and it's fine for my existing TV shows and films and any other media (it works as a PVR after all). Plus it doesn't have any sort of optical drive. What I do have on DVD is now ripped to my hard drive in XVID format.

          Now I'm not saying that sort of setup would suit everyone, but not everyone is going to have a media PC, some folks might just use a PS3 or XBOX360 for their media playback (or maybe a Bluray player or even Apple TV).

          Oh and "You obviously don't think a CD/DVD drive in 2012 is needed, but your wrong"... ahem.... You might want to check out this site... http://www.youryoure.com :-)

          Rob

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: So what /should/ have been done?

    SheILuser, they are busily updating this old piece of hardware with Bluetooth

    http://goo.gl/8dm5z

  10. Andy Parker 1
    Facepalm

    The wired-tablet experience?

    Crashes aside, just look at the number of cables connected to the thing. There are some major fundamentals that MS still don't understand in this market.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The wired-tablet experience?

      The bottom picture looks like (from top to bottom): data; projector; power.

      Data - because there is always the risk that some comedian in the audience will jam wifi. Projector is obvious. Power because the projector probably draws a lot.

      1. Seb123

        Re: The wired-tablet experience?

        "Power because the projector probably draws a lot."

        What? Please explain. With diagrams.

      2. Monty Burns

        Re: The wired-tablet experience?

        I own one of these tablets, posted the cables further up.

  11. Peter Mc Aulay
    Trollface

    "Dynamics, delete!"

    Voice control is the future for business apps. Really, Microsoft?

    Just imagine an open plan office in 2014 full of suits frantically shouting at their tablets. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Jess--

      Re: "Dynamics, delete!"

      I remember messing around with voice control back on windows 95.

      after spending hours training it to respond to my voice I was actually getting pretty good recognition results.

      then my partner went and highlighted the problems of a computer that's always listening for commands by shouting "Computer... Shut Down Now"

    2. ashR

      Re: "Dynamics, delete!"

      Re Peter's comment 12:13 .. "Just imagine an open plan office in 2014 full of suits frantically shouting at their tablets. What could possibly go wrong?"

      I'm unsure which would be more amusing to watch, that or an office of people waving their arms about to control their apps - http://goo.gl/q8Vme

      Pure comedy either way.

      A) "Stop!"

      B) Hey, don't talk to me like that.

      A) I was talking to my email

      --

      A) Flapping arms about

      B) Who are you waving at?

      A) Powerpoint

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Peter

      Actually voice control can be nifty. I've seen this working on the Windows Phone and its not bad at all.

      However, there's a bigger fish to fry. How about /localized/ voice control ? Its nice that Microsoft is pushing this feature forward, but so far only English is supported on the Windows Phone. Surely one would expect them to work on that before they try to introduce it as a key feature.

  12. John A Blackley

    With all those cables

    I take it Microsoft hasn't yet invented AirPlay

    1. El Andy

      Re: With all those cables

      Windows has been able to use Wireless Projectors out of the box since Vista, prior to that there were third party solutions for XP. AirPlay is enormously late to the party.

  13. Lallabalalla
    Thumb Up

    Why not...

    just put a box-ugly wrapper round an iPad3?

  14. William Hinshaw

    Bob 2 sucks

    Bob 2 sucks. Everyone should just stop calling it Metro and call it Bob 2.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bob 2 sucks

      Thanks for that insight Barry

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Developers, Developers, Developers.....

    Woooooo yeah!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE

    Shackled by corporate stupidity and an inability to innovate, Windows 8 is the result!

  16. Robinson
    Paris Hilton

    Can't remember...

    I can't remember the last time I had a BSOD with Windows 7, or had to reboot it because it was fubar. It's been remarkable stable.

    Windows 8 looks like a dog's breakfast on the desktop, however, so I probably won't use it. Installed Linux Mint into a VM to get the hang of things ready for when I have to replace W7.

  17. Robert E A Harvey

    good proof point that this is actually real stuff

    yes, this is what their real stuff actually does.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "sneak peak"?

    Please, please...let this be the last time this site ever lets this typo slip past.

  19. Jeff 11
    Facepalm

    Uh oh, I see a USB cable... you'd think Microsoft would be allergic to using USB at any product demo after http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpj1SgQQ984

    At least Gates was equipped with a decent one liner to downplay this back then!

  20. toadwarrior

    I believe going tits up is a feature of win 8. Expect it often.

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