back to article The 'one tiny slip' that put LulzSec chief Sabu in the FBI's pocket

The man named by the FBI as infamous hacktivist Sabu was undone by an embarrassing security blunder, it is claimed. The alleged LulzSec kingpin eventually copped to a battery of hacking charges last August and was reported to have been "co-operating" with the FBI in the months leading up to yesterday's arrests. Agents locked …

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Again

I've said this in another topic,

But any trials this produce will be quite interesting.

Is there a concept of entrapment (as was suggested in an earlier comment here)?

How about established identity of the user - can you prove, beyond (reasonable) doubt, that the person you are claiming is Tubby-Guy8 is actually the Tubby-Guy8 who did those things accuse him of?

It all seems like fairly new legal grounds, so might end up in higher courts.

Unless someone can point me to earlier rulings of similar nature?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Again

When you confiscate the hardware and find good evidence there, it's fairly certain that you have the right person.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Again

I don't get why this is entrapment - surely entrapment is when an agent pretends to be a hacker and others do as he he says?

Posting Anonymously, just because it's topical ;-)

Rebajas.

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Reading through that pastebin dump

It seems to me that Virus is definitely the smarter one of the pair where as Sabu sounds like someone who's completely in love with himself.

What happened to the "Virus" guy? Did he end up getting collared as well?

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Re: Again

Entrapment can be either the Agent or informant.

BUT.....

The accused has to make the case that they would not have preformed the illegal activity had the Agent or Informant not cohered them into it.

Its funny cause I didn't think that there would be a case of entrapment, but now that I think about it...Hes been with them over a year and one might reasonable doubt the others would have gone through with the hacks had they not been suggested and pushed by a member they trusted.

After all..the FBI also boasted that Sabu got them to stop when told.

Of course, they may plead guilty and fold, making the entrapment argument irrelevant.

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Facepalm

Of course it's not entrapment.

...it's a simple extortion.

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Anonymous Coward

So 3.5k for car parts....

and how much did the operation cost? How much will it cost to keep him in prison?

So he's a criminal, but there there is a point when you you've caught him when you give him a fine, tell him he's a naughty boy and let him go.

Does law enforcement think that we rate the seriousness of the crime by the penalty? That's just gesture politics. If politicians keep acting like this, we may end up in a war for no real rea... oh wait. We might kill more of our own soldiers in "revenge for 9/11" than we had original casualties... oh wait, we did that too.

Let's just put the guy in the Whitehouse. He seems less prone to criminal activity than the normal policy makers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So 3.5k for car parts....

They make prisons for people who can't live within the rules of society. He'll find many more folks in denial there.

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Silver badge

Re: So 3.5k for car parts....

I think the rest of what he did cost far far more than 3.5k though.

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Re: So 3.5k for car parts....

There comes a point in time when the majority of people in the world who are just trying to do their jobs and succeed in life get tired of those who thumb their nose at society's mores, act like the rules don't apply to them because they're special, pretend they're vigilantes working for the greater good of all mankind while simply vandalizing servers for "lulz", pontificate about the evils of public and private organizations while they're racking up charges with stolen credit cards, and believe that they themselves are the final authority of ethics and morals on this planet.

Do I want a sentence and punishment for this group of wannabees that is severe enough to "send a message" to others that are doing the same thing? Heck yes. I hope their sentence costs the US taxpayers a great deal more than 3.5k.

"Does law enforcement think that we rate the seriousness of the crime by the penalty?"

Uh, yes, that's a factor for most of us. That's why I'm perfectly willing to drive over the speed limit much of the time, but unwilling to steal, rob a bank, or use stolen credit cards to buy car parts.

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Re: So 3.5k for car parts....

So let's get this straight.

The Bush clan has been attempting coup d'etat and illegal wars costing hundreds of thousands of lives for three generations.

The Banking Cartels like Goldman Sachs are foreclosing on entire countries and classes.

RIAA and its ilk are bribing politicians to rob the constitution that protects you.

and some hijinks on the internet is what makes you mad. Yes I include credit card fraud in that category. Its not violent crime. It is largely covered by insurance. It does not rate as heinious by any sane standards.

Your speeding over the speed limit kills children. That's why there is a speed limit. I know what I'd come down hardest on.

Anonymous has done far more good in the world than a whole pile of sanctimonious 'law abiding' citizens. They draw attention to who the real crooks are and always have been: The powerful dynasties such as the Bushs. The corporatocracy such as Sony. The Catholic Church and Security Services and their affiliates.

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Re: So 3.5k for car parts....

@Matt2012

"The Bush clan has been attempting coup d'etat..." "They draw attention to who the real crooks are and always have been: The powerful dynasties such as the Bushs."

Really? The Bush thing again? The standard for evil in this world?

Yes, I do believe that credit card fraud is fittingly a felony crime in most instances in the US, and stealing private data of all types and posting it on the Internet should be a felony also. No, I don't believe it is "hijinks" comparable to teenagers egging a house on a Friday night. Yes, multiple things make me angry, but these crimes are certainly on that list.

There is a standard for civil disobedience, but I have no faith that these guys have any idea of what that standard is. Just because you happen to dislike the hacked victims in this case is no excuse. Depending on the moral fortitude and ethical compass of nameless, faceless actors on the Internet that answer to no one and cheering them on will certainly give you unintended consequences in the end.

Good luck with that.

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Shetland Islands

...not part of the UK now?

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Anonymous Coward

Definition of Entrapment

From http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

"ENTRAPMENT

A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit [...] However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime."

I don't think that there's any doubt that the other members of Lulzsec were ready and willing.

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g e

" because just once"

So, actually, a fabulous-tastic advertisement for TOR for free

Nice :oD

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Thumb Up

Good Grief!

I'm in agreement with Matt Bryant! Pigs fly! Hell freezes over! Blue moon sighted!

"He has also pleaded guilty to using stolen credit card information to pay for car parts valued at $3,450. Monsegur also admitted profiting by selling on the login details of compromised bank accounts, a form of aggravated identity theft."

This largely, alongside the fact he spent 16hrs a day on his PC and has two kids, marks him as feckless and criminal.

As some of you may be aware, I am a supporter of Hacktivism to a large degree, but what this 'tard was doing isn't hacktivism. Lulzsec ("we're in it for the Lulz"; that's not a noble cause, folks) are little better than hoodie vandals who are prone to turning on each other at the drop of a hat when it suits them.

In this particular case, I am glad that the FBI picked him up, though I am still concerned that US law appears to be transforming into "western law" pretty swiftly, without the protection of the bill of rights and constitution that US citizens are afforded.

Lulzsec muddied the waters of real hacktivist causes, and I for one am pleased to see it being dismantled.

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Silver badge

Re: Good Grief!

Oh god it happened again....

"So what are you saying, asdf? That all cross-dressers are inherently evil and cannot be trusted to hold positions of authority? That they should be banned from office merely on the rumour that they might be gay? Sounds like homophobia to me, I'm not surprised your first post got removed."

I....I....upvoted MB.....

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Thumb Up

Re: Good Grief!

I know the feeling - very strange, isn't it! Just goes to show lions can lie down with the lambs, at least until feeding time ...

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Nickname Update Required

Famous But (not always completely) Incompetent.

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Unhappy

I'm confused

I'm confused.

Who is the Good Guy here and who is the Bad Guy?

Is there a Happy End?

Do we know whether Michael Fassbender will be playing the clever FBI agent who caught the dastardly hacker or will he be playing the brave hacker in his fight against the bad corporations in the upcoming movie about this tale?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I'm confused

And make no mistake about it. There will be a movie about it making the FEDS look like the good guys in all this.

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Holmes

alas, no betting here.

There were several movies making them look like the good guys after child-burning in Waco. Find one of these in case you'll ever need to get rid of an illusion that Hollywood is mostly populated by human beings.

The plot is one for all, in a slightly allegorical form. Some babies were mind-controlled by alien pedobears, so... <snifff>... <snifff>... <crocodile tears> Enlivening gassing stage was, alas, modestly skipped.

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Anonymous Coward

if he really did use stolen credit card info then fuck him, I've had that done to me before more than once and no amount of hiding behind political activism will change my view of him.

However, these guys have done some real good. They have shouted loudest in a democracy where the public are consistently ignored. They found a way to get noticed and popped up on the radars of some of the highest ranking people in the world.

They made things like SQL injection a household name and while the thousands of hackers out there who were silently accessing out data and selling it in russia and china (and india according to my bank) these guys shouted and bragged about it and explained how they gained access.

The internet will be better hardened to ddos and companies that hold our data should all now be taking better care of it, since we cant stop them collecting it in the first place.

The ridiculous dependence on only perimeter security and having vulnerable passwords on the inside should be less common as a result of the publicity that this lot have gained.

It's swings and roundabouts. They are not all bad, the taking down of that CP site in tor web was a case in point.

The thing that struck me most about this article is that the authorities encouraged [forced] further dishonesty by creating an informant. I know that this is not uncommon but it seems to me to be quite dishonourable for a state to encourage people to inform on one another. I'd say that is the most serious thing i read here. We're not talking about terrorists or people traffickers, we're talking about childish protesters.

Seems to me that the biggest mistake Sabu made was not forgetting to use tor once, it was using his home IP for all of his attacks. If i were doing the things he did (which i would not) then i''d change my mac address and hop onto a nearby wireless network. If it was ever traced back to the compromised wireless network then after a brief period of inconvenience if would become apparent that Mrs Brady the old lady is not the haxor.

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Anonymous Coward

Something is wrong

Something is wrong with this story. The FBI / Scottland Yard conversation was recorded in the same room as the FBI agents. That would indicate a lot of what they guy was blackmailed with was fabricated evidence.

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Anonymous Coward

Not to worry about entrapment

These criminals fully meant to hack and they won't get off by claiming entrapment. It's reality time for these losers.

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FAIL

Now can we get back to real crimes?

Throw the book at him for credit card fraud - yes, please do - but for DDOSing and hacking websites... I think the FBI here are guilty of playing up this kind of offense for publicity. I mean what about 419 scammers? I'd prefer to see this kind of resource aimed at spamming and phishing.

I had my website hacked twice with the index page replaced. Minor inconvenience and I actually learned a bit about security whilst fixing it - I don't consider myself the victim of a crime, only the victim of my own nativity.

Plus, it's kind of insulting to victims of real organized crime - the type that includes violence, rape, enslavement and kidnapping - which authorities seem less interested in and make less fanfare about capturing offenders.

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Anonymous Coward

Don't do the crime

Whining is not the answer. If you hack expect prison time. It's a reality check for the denial generation.

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Anonymous Coward

So let's get this explicit:

"He’d do anything for his kids." Does it include the guy agreeing he's someone he didn't know about, or not?

Also, let's get the second part explicit. It's not "won't see his kids for two years". That's the land of free and brave we're talking about, after all. So it's more of "will have his kids seized despite existing living relatives, and put in an Utopian care of DSS/CPS from which they'll at best exit as nervous wrecks and at worst drugged until effectively lobotomized by freudist "specialists" and then leased to some creepies.

After all, if this happens regularly to pretty much random people not even accused of anything (like Nev Moore), is plain racket out of question when there are possible promotions for catching such an "archvillain"?..

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