back to article America abandoning DSL in favour of faster cable

ADSL connections to US homes are on the slide as companies and consumers turn to cable and fibre for faster connectivity. End of 2011 results show Verizon lost almost half a million DSL customers during last year, while AT&T managed to lose more than six hundred thousand in the last quarter alone - but those customers aren't …

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      1. Matthew Malthouse

        Not the greatest suckage

        Last year I tried getting a fibre connection from Verizon on Broadway, New York. I'm tellin' ya, those Verizon guys could even give the French lessons on how not to serve the customer! (When, that is, they aren't out on strike.)

        Eventually got a microwave link from Rainbow and then a bunch of fibres from TimeWarner. But at least in a business heavy area like downtown NY there are alternatives. If you're in a local monopoly area and you friendly local monopolize is bad....

      2. Arc_Light
        Stop

        Re: France SUCKS

        Hi Chris,

        I will grant you that telecom and ISP customer service in France can be exceptionally poor - I had some extremely unpleasant experiences with France Telecom as well - those people suck, and you're right, they really don't care - certainly a hold-over from being a government-run monopoly for so long. Having said that, my experience with Free's customer service the one time I had issues with my DSL (for the record, BTW, I was quite a ways from Paris) was very good, in spite of my poor language skills at the time. I challenge you to get a friendly, helpful Verizon or Comcast support tech on the phone in the US who is ready and willing to speak French if English fails...

        Second point, and here I think you answered your own argument, is that your mom lives in a rural area. In France, as in the US, about three quarters of the population is urban; for the other quarter in rural areas, internet access blows in either country. Your mom's very bad experience aside, the US isn't any better in this regard - in fact, bringing me back to the internet rankings, on average it's substantially worse, and falling further and further behind every year. France may suck in various ways, then, but not compared to the US as far as internet access is concerned.

        Bottom line, then, while I'm sorry to hear about your mom's very bad experience, the fact remains that in France seven years ago the majority of the population had higher speeds and more ISPs available to them than people in the US do TODAY. That level of choice ALSO means that if the customer service sucks, the average Jacques has a much better chance of finding an alternative ISP to his liking than the average Joe. That's strong incentive to improve customer service, I would add. This is as compared to the situation in the US, where if your local monopolists / duopolists are terrible (which is a reality more often than it should be, even in urban areas), your only choice is to move.

        Arc_Light

  1. Lance 3

    Not a TW customer then

    "Time Warner's cable operation picked up 130,000 customers over the same period, showing that anything is better than twisted-pairs of copper these days."

    Then you have never had Time Warner Internet service. Two cups on some string provides better service at times. Oh, the same can be said for Comcast as well.

    1. unitron
      Joke

      Oh, come on...

      TWC's internet service isn't any worse than their cable service.

      But then again, how could it be?

    2. Gritzwally Philbin

      There's Lots Worse Than Comcast..

      Huh.. I've been at the same apartment for twenty years, and jumped on cable internet in 1999 on a freebie promotional install from MediaOne.. the service was RoadRunner at that time.. which was all of 384k download and crash-a-rama - though that was the LANCity modems which were absolute crap. Then it was sold to AT&T broadband internet.. which crashed ALL the time, and that was due to AT&T being idiots. When Comcast snapped up ATTBI they invested heavily in the 'e-coast' and new cable everywhere, I ended up one telephone pole downstream from a node - WOOSH! - took me three years to get them to come out and set my connection straight, the upstream signal was literally shouting down my modem and I'd often lose sync.

      They missed *completely* the fact that we'd been without teevee service for YEARS, and though we were paying for their unlisted 'basic metered', which was 6 bucks a month, (and netted us the 15 dollar multi-service discount, keeping the cable cheaper than it would be otherwise) we didn't actually have a telly in the house and therefore no signal splitters. Once we got that squared away (the cable guy going, "It's okay, you don't need to hide it, I don't care if you have a TV.." and me saying "No honestly, we don't have one.." Weird.) everything has been hunky-dory.

      I've not had a single problem with Comcast, they keep trying to get me to take TV, though the last time they called, I managed to get a LOWER speed service, I'm now at the 6.2Mbit package they don't like to let anyone know about. It was that or jump on the FairPoint DSL, that is 3Mb down, for 1/3 the cost, also that the phone company building is four blocks away means that the copper outside my window is *unsplit* from the source. You just got to know how to approach Comcast. Be hardnosed. When you've options and don't subscribe to the TV or phone from them, they're pushovers.

      Deb. (aka 'Gritz')

  2. Alan W. Rateliff, II
    Paris Hilton

    Will never go ComCast, again... ever...

    I might have been tempted to trade my 10Mb ADSL and go to ComCast, except the last time I had ComCast service they were complete twats. Once my DSLAM is upgraded to support 25Mb I'll probably do that, instead.

    On the personal side, only during two of numerous calls to ComCast was I not treated like a complete idiot. Every morning, without fail, cable Internet would go out around 1:30am., usually while I was in the middle of working on something or was running backups. Just about every weekend I would be without service for eight to 12 hours at a stretch. Power goes out, cable goes out (no battery-backed field amps.) I have an SMC router which falls over to dial-up if the WAN goes down, but because the modem itself would give a 192.168.100.x DHCP lease of 10 seconds when the cable was down, the router wouldn't switch over. (I know, it should use a better metric for determining a WAN outage, but none-the-less.) I called about each of these things and was completely mistreated, although one manager did tell me that where she lived didn't have battery-backed field amps, either, if that made me feel any better. (It didn't.)

    When I moved and could get DSL I called ComCast to cancel my Internet service. The girl with whom I spoke didn't even bother to ask why I was dropping a service -- mind you, she wouldn't have heard my answer through all the gum smacking she was doing.

    On the professional side, I have to deal with business outages frequently for customers. I have two sites where connectivity, but apparently not signal, drops several times a day for varying periods of time. I have other sites where outages occur for entire days on end. In one case support had a secretary completely dismantle the office network. Need a PTR record set for your static? That might take a few calls to get it done correctly, if at all. Now, to be fair, business support is more often than not extremely helpful and the site techs are quick to respond.

    While CenturyLink nee Embarq nee (too lazy to do the accent thing) Sprint won't do nice things like set a PTR record for your static, I have had nearly zero downtime on its DSL over the course of several years for several sites. Worst problem I had with CTL was a PITA saleswoman who tried to move a customer from a DSL reseller and then blamed it on me.

    Cable may be better technology, but the support and service I've experienced over-all is shit-tier. I'm quite happy downloading at 1MB/s when I don't have to worry about whether the service will be down or up when I need it and not having to dread calling some support drone.

    Paris, tends to go down frequently for varying periods of time.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      My experience over many years of using both cable and DSL has always been that DSL is rock solid whereas cable gives Paris a run for her money, regularly going up and down.

      Plus there's one other big advantage - cable is static IP whereas I can pull a new address in seconds via DSL so at home I'll always use DSL over cable.

      1. david wilson

        >>"Plus there's one other big advantage - cable is static IP whereas I can pull a new address in seconds via DSL so at home I'll always use DSL over cable."

        I'm not sure that's necessarily a huge advantage, unless it's simply for privacy for legal activities (like not being easily tracked across websites, etc)

        If you were doing something less legal (or something legal which 'they' might think was subversive) which you wanted to keep private, do you know how good the record keeping was at your ISP, in case someone was enquiring at a later date about who had which IP at some particular time?

        If they kept any record, it might well be good enough to use against you, and if someone investigating some frowned-on activity had a long list of different 'offending' IPs/times which had multiple matches to your history of IPs/times, it could be hard to argue that all the matches were just coincidences.

        If whatever you were doing was more than very occasional, IP changes might be little protection.

        If someone was being particularly paranoid, I guess they might wonder if repeatedly getting new IP addresses could even stand out as being potentially suspicious.

    2. Scott 1

      "Cable may be better technology, but the support and service I've experienced over-all is shit-tier. I'm quite happy downloading at 1MB/s when I don't have to worry about whether the service will be down or up when I need it and not having to dread calling some support drone.

      Paris, tends to go down frequently for varying periods of time."

      My experience, both personally and professionally, has been overwhelmingly the opposite (although Comcast, specifically, was a PITA). I used to support guest internet service at over 2,000 hotels, and by far the biggest troublemaker hotels were on DSL service. We finally had to tell the desk clerks at several of the hotels to just reboot the DSL modem every few hours. I've also done tech support for a couple of engineering firms and various friends from church. The cable internet customers (primarily Cox) rarely, if ever, had trouble, whereas the DSL customers (primarily Qwest -- now Century Link) were going down seemingly more times per hour than Paris has over her lifetime.

      This was my own personal experience, too. Twice, Qwest DSL was my only choice and I was miserable both times. Their ADSL service (the first time) was always going up and down, and I was lucky if it stayed up for more than an hour at a time. The second time was with their VDSL service, which was rock solid stable (the remote CO was 30 yds away with Cat 5e cabling between the demarc and the wall jacks). However, the service would go down every night for an hour on Qwest's end (the only ISP I could use with the service), it was at an inconvenient time, and they did this *on purpose*. Their phone support was okay, but sometimes clueless. The majority of the time, they would just tell me the problem was interference from flourescent lights (that were on the other side of the apartment from where the phone wiring was).

      I've been on two cable internet services now, Cox and Brighthouse. Brighthouse was problematic at first, but that turned out to be a faulty coax cable between the house and the junction box. This problem aside, both have always been relatively very stable. The few times I had to call for support they were okay (not always great, but good enough at the very least), and their field service techs have been good each time.

  3. Mike Flugennock

    I like my DSL just fine, thanks

    My DSL provider's been solid and dependable for going on seven years now; the only significant outages -- iirc, less than a handful in that whole time -- have been because of extreme weather or other technical issues not connected to malfeasance... and btw, it's not Verizon. Besides, I've heard all sorts of lukewarm-to-bad reviews of cable internet in my area (Washington DC) -- not to mention the fact that we have a grand total of two, count 'em, two, choices for cable internet in our area, one of which is Concast... uh, sorry, Comcast (enough said).

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rotting Copper

    Got that right.

    It is not just universal service though, the telcos chronically sell DSL for practically nothing to compete-- even when there isn't anyone to compete with. What they end up doing is selling the DSL so cheap, they can't build out the network without taking a loss. You can see where that death spiral leads just by looking at the numbers of customers leaving landlines (never mind abandoning DSL).

    As for the whiny greed soaked punters getting their knickers in a knot about the cost of cable or DSL, well guys, stop buying it then! Oh, wait, you mean a fat pipe is critical to your sniveling well being and that of your rug spawned rats? You can afford 100 to 150 each month for a shiny smartphone fondleslab cell but 15 for broadband (or 60) breaks the bank? You should try living in America, where 30% are stuck on grogan dumping satellite...

  5. Steven Jones

    FTTC copper pair hybrid solutions still use DSL.

    It is technically incorrect to describe FTTC hybrid solutions which utilise copper pairs for the last few hundred metres as "abandoning DSL". Generally the copper part uses some form of VDSL which has the potential for 100Mbps or so. El Reg ought to know that DSL is a family of technologies (albeit based on some common principles), and ADSL is just one of them.

    1. kain preacher

      ATT calls it FTTC DSL or optical DSL.

  6. paullaz
    Happy

    In preparation for U-Verse

    Last year when I moved onto my rural hilltop in the Santa Cruz mountains AT&T delivered 1.5Mbps/384kbps via DSL. I won't deal with Comcast. As is my practice, I call every year to see if anything has changed since they won't contact you. I was nicely surprised to hear that "in preparation for U-verse" a fiber connected "tan box" is now somewhere up on the mountain close enough to deliver 12Mbps/3Mbps. Not super zippy, but my expectations living a mile up a one lane road weren't that high and I'm happy... for now. It gets installed next week

  7. Bruce Ordway

    Cable vs DSL

    In 2000, I was one of the first to sign up for DSL in my city.

    It was easy to run my own servers.

    Unlimited really meant unlimited too.

    I switched to cable briefly and regretted it.

    No servers (before signing up I had been told they allowed).

    It wasn't nearly as fast as advertised.

    Then one day I came home and I was disconnected from the internet.

    I discovered unlimited didn't really mean unlimited.

    I'll never give another dollar to a cable company if there is any alternative.

    I quickly switched back to DSL.

    I couldn't get the exact same contract by then.

    The company has grown up enough that it is starting to resemble the Cable company.

    At least unlimited really is unlimited.

    I can use all the bandwidth I pay for.

  8. Anonymous Noel Coward
    Windows

    UK abandoning DSL in favour of faster pigeonband.

    1. Crisp
      Gimp

      @Anonymous Noel Coward

      Which part of the UK are you in? 50Mb down/5Mb up line here and nary a pigeon in sight.

      1. Anonymous Noel Coward
        FAIL

        4000 Kbps down; 1000 Kbps up...

        I live in Shrewsbury.

        I was recently informed that they don't want to rip up the cobblestones here to install FiOS because it would "cost too much."

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Irony...

    When DSL was released here, it was an actual twisted copper wire, like telephone land lines, limited to 2mbps, and dad hired it to get rid of dial-up.

    Enter cable companies some 5 years later, offering up to 10Mbit, the price drops all around, and I hire it. Now, cable companies can go up to 100mbit, but you share the bandwidth with the neighborhood. The ping is good, but the band doesn't get to the 10mbit I hired. Not to mention the cable shares HD television.

    Local DSL providers now switched to optic (non copper, I can say at least) and upgraded my dad to 30mbps, with the thing actually getting to 31mbps and actual 0ms lag. Nil lag. Zip.

    The grass is always greener...

    The irony is, dad is running DSL with fiber, and my coax cable core is copper. Exactly the opposite of this news.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    DSL, Cable, and Fiber

    I had a friend who had cable in her apartment complex for over a decade - she could download over cable, but she had to dial-up to the cable company via her telephone line in order to conduct her upload content! No cable supplied UPS for the internet or phone.

    I have assisted multiple families with their cable set-up in the U.S. I have spoken to many college students who have cable. The complaints are all the same - on off-hours, it is fast, but when people are home, it is sloooowwww. Once they see other options working, they will often change to a non-cable service, to get better consistency with their service. No cable supplied UPS for the internet or phone.

    I know another family who has Verizon FiOS, but when there is a power outage, the (VoIP) phone would only work for about 15 minutes. Fast internet access, video, phone - but performance during power outage at the fiber access point was sub-par.I supplied them with a massive UPS in the house for the FiOS TV/Telco/WiFi access point, the house could survive the outage, but the neighborhood could not - Verizon can't size a UPS to save their lives in a neighborhood fiber access point..

    I know another family who has $19.95 DSL from the telco. For poor families, this is still an option, but it is unadvertized. It is not super fast, but it is usable for most purposes, including watching television over the internet from overseas. No UPS provided by the telco, but the POTS line still works during power outages. I provided a UPS for their computer and DSL - works great during outages.

    I know another family who bought a house in a "future proof" community, with real fiber to the curb - every house had an RJ45. It started with T1 download speed for internet to every house, and never progressed beyond that. Those forward-thinking communities got stuck. Copper is a lot more flexible, it seems. Those families can not even get DSL or an copper-hybrid (FiOS or UVerse) alternatives - Cable is their only escape.

    When I first bought DSL, the telco would not run it to my house, but I was able to get it through a third-party provider. It was fast enough and cheap. The analog POTS line was clear. During power outages, everything worked, great. I could never get the speed boosted beyond T1 download speeds. I provided my own UPS and had terrific reliability - even during long power outages. I kept it as long as I could, until the "need for speed" eclipsed usability. Overall, this was my favorite option.

    I later moved to major telco DSL, because they offered higher speed than the third-party DSL that I was using. Honestly, my third party DSL was more reliable (rock-solid), but the additional speed was worth the migration to the new (slightly unreliable during rainstorms) service. I needed to add 2 VoIP lines, to my existing POTS line. I had my own (large) UPS and I could use my internet for over 6 hours during a long unexpected power outage.

    I recently made the switch to ATT UVerse, which is pretty reasonable. I needed higher upload speed, to add a 3rd (non ATT) VoIP line. I use the phone and (fastest available) internet (without the video.) The telco phone appears to be a VoIP type connection, built into the same box which offers video. The telco telephone is reasonable and they included a UPS for the telephone/internet/wifi-gateway - we had some power short outages, but I don't know what the phone or internet performance will be like with >15 minute outages.

    Overall, DSL/POTS in the U.S. is cheap and stable - my favorite. Former fiber offerings were premium but inflexible. Cable in apartment complexes is horrible (using POTS line for cable upload and losing your voice line during internet surfing over cable!) Cable in communities is fast, but slow during peak times. Newer fiber offerings, using copper to the home, seem to be a best-of-breed between Cable and traditional DSL... except Verizon couldn't keep a network up beyond 15 minutes, in my experience.

  11. Amonymous Ocward
    Go

    It is becoming apparent

    from all these comments, that there's a great big gap in the market in America for a decent ISP.

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