back to article El Reg to unleash rocket-powered spaceplane

The El Reg Special Projects Bureau (SPB) is pleased to announce we've finally come up with what we reckon is a worthy successor to our Paper Aircraft Released Into Space (PARIS) project. After a good deal of mulling as to how we could use our PARIS experience to launch an even more improbable and audacious plan to keep the UK …

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          1. Stoneshop
            Boffin

            Sheep do not so much fly as...plummet.

            Well, it looks like you wouldn't call what a folded paper aeroplane does when thrown off the n-th floor balcony 'flying' either.

            PARIS managed to end its flight with a surprising lack of damage, from which I dare to draw the conclusion that the craft went relatively slow, which again means a near-horizontal attitude.

            OK, it wasn't guided in any way, but in common parlance the craft, seeing that it did no plummeting to speak of and managing airborne time and distance travelled consistent with the aforementioned lack of plummeting, was flying.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    To Infinity and beyond!

    Couldn't resist the headline ;-)

  2. Dave 64 Silver badge
    Coat

    the obvious name

    it has to be ELTON (it's a rocket, man)

    1. Hungry Sean
      Pint

      good call

      enter low terrestrial orbit now?

    2. Captain DaFt
      Thumb Up

      ELTON

      Elevated Launch Trial Over Nation?

      And if you DO go with the "Rocketman" theme, I wonder if this kit could be modified to use a rocket engine?:

      http://www.rcsuperhero.com/products.html#anchor_25

    3. Captain DaFt
      Thumb Up

      ELTON pt. 2

      Elevated Launch Test, Onboard Navigation!

      (Well, I think it's a winner!)

  3. The Vociferous Time Waster
    Mushroom

    LOHAN

    Low Orbit Highly Autonomous Navigator

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    LOHAN

    Low Orbit Hype Attracting Numpty?

  5. Andus McCoatover
    Windows

    Picking myself off the floor again...

    Go for Gold!!!

    Might I suggest a name for your second vulture ^W venture from a hero in an old Superman comic?

    NOM-EL

    Can't think of how I'd fit it into words, but....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Headmaster

      Dunno him but...

      I'm reasonably up on old Superman comics (finally gave up after the Brainiac-13 fiasco) but I don't recall a NOM-EL (unless you really want to spell LEMON backwards).

      There is however a Mon-El (you see? You shouldn't test old farts with this sort of thing) who is actually Lar Gand from the planet Daxam. He ends up in the Legion of Super-Heroes, my favourite book.

      And now... back to looking for a job...

      1. Andus McCoatover
        Windows

        You're correct.

        As an old fart myself, I shouldn't let my Alzeimisers affect my spelling.

        (Damn primary school teacher destroyed my Superman comic one day, on the basis it was "American trash" Bitc*h was only about 20, too. What the hell did she know ;-)

  6. Aaron Em

    "Traditional beer mat"

    Just another reason the US needs an invasion before it'll be put right -- our beer mats these days take up so much space on both sides, trying to sell some crap nobody is drinking, that there's hardly even room for a telephone number.

    1. Andus McCoatover
      Windows

      Came out with a weird idea,,,

      Beer mats and non-smoking places

      Wouldn't it be nice if one could get a paper cap to fit over the beer glass, which has all the advertisements on it, but signifying "This is not finished!!!" when one pops outside for a smoke. Stops the barstaff whipping the half-full glass away.

      THEN, we could use the clean beermats for creating useful projects as in the old days, like PARIS, or LOHAN, or a GSM cellular system.

      Just a thought....

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Guess it's small.

    So, it's a Pocket Rocket then...

    1. Spot the Cat
      Pint

      re Guess it's small....

      ....with a short 'naut ((c) Lewis Page, wish I'd thought of it first.)

  8. Caff

    LOHAN

    Low Orbit Helium Assisted Navigation

    Long Overdue Half Assed Notion

  9. Adrian Esdaile
    Thumb Up

    British Object Of Blinding Speed

    oh and yay for the F-19 pic! Makes me all nostalgic for Project Stealth Fighter on the C64!

    I did just read the article about ANON, yes, why do you ask?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Superb idea!

    The LOHAN flight will of course feature the British Rocket-propelled Exo-Atmospheric Sailplane Test, right?

    We expect great things from the reg technology-wise, so don't go with a boring old solid rocket motor. Hybrid is the fashion of the day!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    VICTORIA

    Vulture In Cosmic Travel On Really Inspired Adventure

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Correction

    Replace "Sailplane" by "Spaceplane". Much kewler.

  13. James Hughes 1

    Good luck with that

    You'll need it. And a lot of permits to fly it too. Autonomous aircraft need an (expensive) permit I believe, although not sure about Spain, but I expect so. Even small ones. The flight control software needs to be completely foolproof and tested to the nth degree (imagine it going wrong and crashing on someone - you'll need insurance).

    Anyway notwithstanding that, flight control software is pretty difficult, as is rocket ignition in flight.

    Still, like I said, good luck!

  14. M Gale

    That concept pic looks awesome.

    ...and you could probably achieve it with fibreglass sheets and resin. Pretty cheap stuff, usually used for making/fixing model helicopter bodies. Could make for an awesome monocoque airframe, leaving plenty of room inside for rocket engines. Will you be just buying off-the-shelf Estes stuff, or making your own engines? Also are you considering solid, liquid or hybrid rocket engines? From what I recall, the Top Gear shuttle attempt used latex and nitrous oxide. Could be worth contacting Rocket Men Ltd to see if they'd like to join forces or find out how much it'd cost to hire their expertise.

    As you're going above GPS heights, I'm going to guess you'll need to work without it, at least at the start of the launch. Solid state barometers can be fettled to work as altimeters, and you already know about solid state gyroes and accelerometers. Problem is, gyroes will tend to drift so you will need to find a way of detecting absolute orientation every now and then (as opposed to the gyroes just telling you how much you rotated since the last measurement). You could go for optical horizon detection (probably a good option as you'll be way above cloud level and presumably launching in the day, even if it would be computationally expensive to analyze a couple of webcam feeds). Another more iffy method is magnetic detection. Apparently the difference in the Earth's magnetic field is measurable over a pretty short altitude difference, so sensors in the wingtips could detect whether you're flying level or not (at the expense of not knowing if you're upside down or not).

    Another (better) method of horizon detection is putting IR sensors in the wingtips and looking for a warmer earth versus a cooler sky. This is used in auto-land mechanisms that are already available, however they have their own drawbacks. You'd need extra sensors above/below to detect inversion, and the behaviour of an autoland system might get a little odd if it approaches a tree line or hilly terrain. I've seen some reports saying the aircraft will automatically bank away from the tree line, but a sharp bank at low altitude will likely end up with a nosedive into the floor.

    Have you thought about possibly taking manual control of the aircraft once it gets low enough, presuming you can find the thing in the sky? Can we have a re-attempt at trying to track the craft via telescope? Also, please put a forward-facing camera on the aircraft this time. PARIS was awesome in very many ways, but it was a shame to not be able to see the ride down from the Playmonaut's perspective.

    Also, perhaps it's possible to have the engines as external modules that get jettisoned after exhaustion? Extra brownie points for having them come down via parachute, shuttle-SRB-style. Extra extra brownie points for sticking cameras on them too.

    For location, maybe you could use a lightweight, hacked smartphone with GPS in addition to the radio beacons? It's likely the batteries would freeze at very high altitude, but so long as it wakes back up properly once things warm up a little (and presuming it comes down in an area with some signal) you'd have a very precise way of recovering your spaceplane (and perhaps SRBs).

    Maybe put a radio beacon on the floor somewhere and see if the plane can home in on it?

    My word, this post is getting long. Hopefully not too long. Dammit Lester, there's just so much stuff to think about here. I'm envious you're getting to do it at all though!

    1. Wommit

      Just an idea

      Use laser ring gyros. No drift and very, very accurate. Light weight too.

      1. M Gale

        Laser ring gyroes

        Hm.

        Problem is, whatever signal you're getting from the gyro has to be converted to digital at some point so the onboard computer can deal with it. Digitisation means quantisation, which means quantisation error, which means drift. Unfortunately we don't have infinite-bit ADCs just yet, nor computers that can deal with infinite accuracy. That and a piezo gyro from a model shop is probably vastly cheaper.

        Still, there are no silly ideas when compared to the overall goal of flinging a model aircraft into space. Let's keep going and give Lester some inspiration!

        1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

          Re: Laser ring gyroes

          "Still, there are no silly ideas when compared to the overall goal of flinging a model aircraft into space. Let's keep going and give Lester some inspiration!"

          Correct. Your ideas are vital to getting the thing off the ground. Keep 'em coming...

        2. SkippyBing

          Ring Laser Gyros

          I don't think digitisation is that much of a problem, Ring Laser Gyros are used by all the modern airliners to drive their nav systems and autopilots. I think the cost of buying them might be more of a limit, they ain't cheap!!

    2. Andus McCoatover
      Windows

      far too long ;-)

      If El Reg. can't afford jetex motors*, I'm sure there's a cheap Chinese alternative. However, considering that, wouldn't a few shotgun cartridges give enough thrust? After all, it's not being launched from a "Grassy Knoll" (Downvotes from yanks expected and deserved)

      *http://jetex.org/motors/motors-jetex.html

      1. M Gale

        Jetex motors

        Amusing, cheap, but I don't know if they provide enough thrust to lift things vertically. Everything I've seen them on seems to use them to propel the craft horizontally while the wings provide lift in a more normal fashion.

    3. SkippyBing

      Why Horizon Detection

      As long as you design the aircraft to be positivly stable it should self right on release, basically having the centre of gravity below the centre of lift solves the problem.

      After that it's a question of having it head in the right general direction, obvioulsy GPS would be ideal and I believe it's possible to get around the height limit that's mostly an artificial imposition anyway. One of those camera attached to met ballon groups did it a while back. if not just have it follow an appropriate compass direction until it gets below the height limit and then revert to GPS guidance.

      With a dynamically stable platform guidance shouldn't be that much of an issue as once you remove the steer command it should steady up on the new heading.

      I think you could achieve all the above with a smart phone - GPS, compass, guidance control software and link it to the control system via USB. The main thing you'd need this time is some sort of heater to stop the batteries freezing!

      1. M Gale

        Re: Why Horizon Detection

        Well it's not so much horizon detection as attitude detection, and horizon detection is possibly the only way of doing it that's within reach of Garden Shed Engineering.

        As for why, well the idea according to the article is to fly the thing back to base under autonomous control. As well as you build any airframe, all it takes is a gust of wind to completely fuck your orientation up. Under any realistic conditions, simply relying on dihedral wings and rudder control is not going to work very well at all. While there are free-flight gliders that can circle around, they aren't really guided and may well end up anywhere. They also tend to be flown in conditions that are relatively calm compared to whatever might be blowing about up at 30, 40 or 50,000 feet. So long as you can detect attitude, you can keep the wings at a sensible level and therefore not have to worry about suddenly being flipped upside down - or at least, quickly correct things if you do get flipped. Plus at the speed a rocket engine is likely to take you, anything other than sharply swept or delta wings are likely to get ripped straight off. I really want to see that F19 airframe in fibreglass!

        Using a hacked smartphone (or multiple if Lester goes for detachable engines) for everything is a plan though. Cheapy droidphones are under a hundred quid and have more than enough computational grunt for the task. Plus GPS, plus a 3G chipset, unless there are smaller, lighter System On Board platforms that have 3G to talk to home with.

        Mind you, what would it take for a long-ish range nav beacon to send gpsd-compatible messages over rtty? Much better than trying to triangulate a simple ping, and no need to rely on mobile phone coverage.

    4. Martin Gregorie

      This is well below GPS limits

      "As you're going above GPS heights, I'm going to guess you'll need to work without it, at least at the start of the launch."

      Rubbish. GPS works in the ISS orbit. COTS systems have imposed limits of 60,000 ft and 999 kts, to stop evil people from using an off the shelf system to guide a home-brew ICBM, but that's not a technologoical limit and apparently Garmin kit doesn't have the altitude limit implemented.

      At least one person has used a GPS-based auto-pilot to return a met. balloon-launched glider back to base. This reached 74,000 ft and, once the auto-pilot sorted out the trim, was able to head on back home - until it rammed the top of a mountain that happened to be in the way .

      See http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/index.htm

      Lester, if you don't know this site, its well worth a look. Its well written and has a lot of information about the temperatures and speeds met in flight as well as good analyses of what went wrong, why, and how the problems were fixed.

      1. M Gale

        I think I should have clarified.

        "Civilian GPS".

        Still, if the module aboard Vulture 1 performed okay, maybe it can be re-used. The thing I'm scared about is that some forums are saying the height+speed limits are imposed on a lot of modules as an "OR" operation, so height exceeded OR speed exceeded. Some are imposed as an AND operation, so height AND speed exceeded. If the Vulture 1's GPS module is an AND, then it'll be fine for measuring a slowly floating balloon's height all the way up to space. However if this rocket plane goes above 999kts, then you could end up with GPS cutting out just when it's needed most: to measure peak height. 1150mph might sound like a big ask, but not out of the range of even a modestly powerful rocket engine in the upper atmosphere with nothing substantially heavy attached to it.

        Though as this is El Reg, and not some bunch of random schmucks, maybe they could be trusted with mil-spec kit?

        1. SkippyBing

          Attitude detection

          Should be possible using one of the sensors in a smartphone as long as it's securely fixed to the airframe. I don't think speed is necessarily an issue either, it only has to go up fast, coming back down could be done at a more leisurely pace, or using one of the more stable lifting body concepts from the X-Series of aircraft to reduce the control issues.

          Going up could be tricky but if you can work out the optimum angle of attack it shouldn't be that hard, although some sort of air density sensor would be useful*. This assumes you want the lift from the wings for going up rather than relying on pure thrust.

          *You could just use a temperature sensor and work the rest out mathematically, you just need an estimation of the Indicated Air Speed that's accurate enough for your control inputs not to cause you to depart controlled flight.

          1. M Gale

            Sensors in a smartphone.

            These tend to be accelerometers, which would be as useless as trying to fly a plane at night in clouds by looking out of the window. Unfortunately the acceleration caused by getting kicked up the backside by a rocket engine will severely skew a smartphone's idea of where "down" is. This is where using a solid state gyro (three of them, they cost about £30-£50 each from an RC supplies shop) would come in handy, alongside horizon detection. The ready-for-RC gyro blocks are quite lightweight, or you can buy the raw components themselves from CPC or Maplin or whoever for even more weight savings. Hell, I have a Blade mCX micro-copter here with a 7 inch rotor span, that has a single-axis tail gyro welded onto the logic board. They are tiny, on the order of Microchip-sized.

            See the reason you need additional horizon-detection measures (be they optical, IR or whatever), is that gyroes don't give you an absolute attitude reading and accelerometers are useless for this purpose when you're undergoing acceleration (or even just wobbling about a bit). Gyroes will tell you how much you've rotated by, but they don't know where "down" is. By using horizon detection, you get an absolute measure of where up and down is that can be taken, say every second or so, whereas the gyroes respond much faster and can be used to interpolate by saying "well up and down was THIS way 0.02 seconds ago and the gyroes say I've rotated THAT many degrees, so up and down must be THERE." Accelerometers can be used for their intended purpose of logging the fact that "holy crap, I'm pulling 10g on this rocket burn, woo fucking hoo!"

            Now you could use solid state barometers to measure both airspeed AND altitude. Airspeed barometer would be attached to a pitot tube, the altimeter one inside the airframe out of any significant draughts. Of course they'd both need calibrating, but the mathematical formula for turning millibars into feet above sea level is pretty well documented. If nothing else it would be a backup or redundant telemetry system in case the GPS module does decide that Lester is trying to bomb the White House and craps out until it descends by a few thousand feet/slows down a touch. Yeah, apparently if the GPS does crap out there may be a bit of hysterisis - it won't just flick back on the minute you go below 60,000ft/1150mph, and there may be a considerable delay.

            This is turning into another long post isn't it?

            1. SkippyBing

              Didn't relise gyros were that cheap!

              It's been a while since I had anything to do them beyond using the results.

              As you allude you can use gyros and accelerometers to get an absolute attitude reading as long as you integrate the results a couple of times (INS systems do this in aircraft/submarines etc.), i.e. I was here, I've been pulling 10g in this direction for 5 seconds so I must be there now. Similarly with gyros, I've rotated this way at 3 degrees a second for 2 seconds so I must be 6 degrees right wing low etc. Theoretically as long as they know where down is when you start everything's good but you'd have to run some tests to see if the fidelity is good enough.

              Now what I don't know is if that's more of an overhead than just using the camera on a smartphone* to recognise the horizon is squint, the one issue I can see is that you'll need at least two cameras, one for pitch and one for bank and if the horizon is out of the field of view some way of coping, possibly more cameras.

              Solid state barometers are also a good idea for IAS and Altitude I'm guessing they too cost much less than I thought, of course if you get the OAT as well you can figure out the Mach number...

              *I'm going to keep suggesting smartphones as I'm taken with the idea for some reason. Wonder if I can get one to fly my RC helicopter...

              1. Matt Siddall

                Just as a thought

                What about the Kinect for horizon detection? It has some impressive sensors/cameras in there, and can be hooked up to anything that can use USB. Get someone to figure out some drivers to run Kinect on a mobile and you've got quite a potent package...

        2. Martin Gregorie

          Further comment

          A little more info: http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/itar/p121.htm gives the civilian limitations as 60,000 ft AND less than 1000kts

          However, I've seen unattributed statements that many civilian units use an OR relationship instead: http://gpsinformation.net/main/gpsspeed.htm and, as I said before, at least some Garmin units are said to limit speed reporting but not altitude.

          Military/space-rated GPS works on the ISS (and Shuttle?). It will apparently work at up to 3000km altitude - which makes sense since the GPS constellation orbits at 20,200 km, so the angular change from ground level to 3000km isn't very significant.

    5. WillbeIT
      Pint

      What he said

      But with a salami powered rocket please.

  15. taxman
    Coat

    Erm....

    Lubricated

    Obviously

    High

    And

    Nude

  16. intLab
    Go

    Autopilot

    I'd have a look at DIY Drones for the basis of the autopilot. Most of the groundwork has been laid with their APM; they have good hardware and a well developed IMU. Don't think anyone has taken one that high or fast before though.. The components they use on the distributed board almost certainly wont be up to the job, but a custom pcb+bom should be quite easy - I'd be up for helping knock one up for sure.

    1. Annihilator
      Boffin

      Yup

      Specifically the ArduPilot, based on the Arduino board. Has support for full 6DOF + GPS and I'm sure could be adapted to fit whatever airframe you choose

      http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/ardupilot-main-page

  17. Wommit
    Boffin

    This is a Britsh project isn't it?

    So it's got to be done in a garage.

    Just has to be.

    1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

      Re: This is a Britsh project isn't it?

      Ahem - surely you mean "in a shed".

  18. Michael Habel
    Black Helicopters

    I spy with my Eye...

    I loved the F-19 Sim on the C=64 and more to a point I loved the design I wonder if it ever went into production though.

    Skull for Black Ops? No wait I'll take the Black Copters One then....

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Design suggestion

    Upgrade the pilot to Lego.

    Smaller, lighter and much more flexible in terms of accessories.

    Lego is the DOS to Playmobile's Vista

    Let the format wars begin!

    1. Matt Siddall

      Title

      At which point you could use:

      Lego Operative Hurled Aloft Naked...

  20. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse
    Go

    Whilst I wish you all the best...

    When you say "launching into space" do you mean it in the same tenuous manner that Branson's Galactic effort isn't really going into space?

    Either way I don't really care and very much look forward to following the progress.

    1. James Hughes 1

      Or you could look up the definition of space

      And find that anything over 100km is classed as Space, and therefor Branson's effort does get to space (unlike regs 100kft thingy here).

      You don't have to be in orbit to be in space - a common misconception. Apparently.

  21. Peter Simpson 1

    Folks missing the obvious

    Lester's

    Outgassing

    High

    Altitude

    Nosecone

  22. M Gale

    While I'm at it..

    ...why a single balloon? Why not a cluster of them? Means you can inflate each balloon less, and therefore reach higher altitudes before they go pop.

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