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back to article £1.1bn Royal Navy warship finally armed, sort of

HMS Daring, first of the £1.1bn+ Type 45 destroyers now coming into service with the Royal Navy, has finally fired her primary (and only significant) armament, the Sea Viper missile system. The glad news comes five years after the ship was launched, three years after she was accepted into the Royal Navy and well into the tenure …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    Rule, Britannia!!

    "Sea Viper is the Royal Navy's name for the Principal Anti Air Missile System (PAAMS), a fusion of British, French, Italian and US-made equipment. It is touted as being superior to any other maritime air-defence system in the world, with the makers claiming that it can shoot down a cricket ball travelling at Mach 3 up to 75 miles away."

    That'll teach those steroid-abusing bowlers!! But can it hit a googlie? (and now I will shut up on the sports analogies, since I have just reached the limits of my cricket knowledge)

    Extra good news! The RNs latest escort ships are no longer in danger of being taken out by a seagull carrying a hand grenade!!

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  2. NinjasFTW

    people are strange

    Im not really sure why people are attacking Lewis here.

    We all know he loves US kit blah blah blah but im not sure how anyone can defend the expensive lump of turd of a missile frigate.

    He has stated nothing but fact in this piece. I think people are guilty of the same bias that they are accusing him of

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  3. Paul 135
    Dead Vulture

    moan moan moan

    Here goes that broken record Lewis Page moaning and moaning about any military equipment that happens to be British to sell yet more of his books which merely do the same moaning.

    The reality is that the type 45 is the most advanced destroyer in the world, with nothing else coming close.

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    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Alert

      A broken record may be right all day

      Additionally regarding "most advanced destroyer", a morality tale:

      http://www.mayofamily.com/RLM/txt_Clarke_Superiority.html

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    2. Nater
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Haha

      Most advanced, least useful destroyer in the world. No cruise missiles, not anti-ship missiles, no close-in anti-missile defense. Not even a token ABM setup. I'm sure the US could re-do an Arleigh Burke with super-advanced technology and make it useless to actual war if they wanted to, but they're smarter than that.

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    3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "the type 45 is the most advanced destroyer in the world"

      For a vessel that has just enough weaponry to combat dinghys and low-threat pirate boats, I find your comment particularly ridiculous.

      Against anything with proper ship-to-ship weapons, the Type 45 is sunk, no questions asked. The fact that it is a so-called "destroyer" just adds insult to injury.

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  4. Martin Usher
    FAIL

    The logic doesn't add up

    The missile system defends the boat against air attack. No boat, no need to defend it against air attack. Since the boat doesn't seem to do anything else then its a bit of a waste of space.

    Its most effective offensive weapon may be its cost.....sell it to an enemy and watch them go bankrupt....

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      How it is better...

      Not quite! It's designed to defend the fleet it sails with from missile attack - most particularly its aircraft carrier. That was the disaster scenario in the Falklands.

      Oh hang on I think something is missing. The carrier...

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  5. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    seagull carrying a hand grenade

    The seagull with a grenade is easily defeated by the Botham air defence system already fitted to all cricket class ships. An array of sailor's with bats line the ship ready to deflect any casually lobbed ordnance.

    The earlier Boycott system was abandoned when during tests it chose to ignore anything fired at it for the first three days of any conflict.

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  6. Jon Smit
    FAIL

    Thank gawd

    We have/had the RAF to look after our clueless sailors.

    Having just read David Morgan's "Hostile Skies", it's obvious the Navy's worst enemy is itself. Too many career jack tars, so afraid of getting thing wrong, they seldom get anything right.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Hm?

      That would be the RAF that lobbied to take over control of Harrier and then had it scrapped so they could keep flying Tornados (somehow requiring eleven of the damn things for every one that actually sees combat), in the process removing what little capability we had for providing close-range air power of the sort we need in Libya? That RAF? The RAF obsessed with absolute dominance and control of anything flying? The RAF that thought it would be more cost-effective to refit the ancient Nimrod with unique-to-each-craft parts rather than purchase something new, at a fraction of the price and more effective? The RAF so obsessed with fast jets that it won't even consider anything capable of close air support with loiter?

      That RAF?

      Remind me how many carriers the RAF fields. How in the hell can they "look after" our navy?

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Grenade

        RAF Aircraft vs What the Minister wants

        The RAF gets a lot of aircraft that it didn't want;

        Rebuilding a cut and shut DH Comet was not on anybody's wish list in the pilot run RAF, but it was cash in the kitty for an organisation hiring lobbyist after the next election!

        Tucano, jobs for belfast

        A400M, minister driven requirement, rather than off the shelf C17 (which we had to get in the end)

        ETC........

        Could draw up similar civil servant & politician led procurement activities for the army and navy, such as the never suffciently damned SA80 (get a contract for Royal Ordance so we can privatise it, thanks Maggie!)

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  7. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Captain is pleased?

    Wouldn't you be pleased to be on a naval vessel on which you have to occasion to pass the command

    "LAUNCH ALL VIPERS"

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  8. Msan

    Don't like the look of that jet exhaust...

    Suggests an oil leak. Might want to get that sorted before applying for entry into service

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And the winner of the "Most Incompetent Project Management Award"

    for 2011 goes to: MOD or CSC

    You decide.

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  10. JaitcH
    FAIL

    New Navy procedure: Ordering ships without armaments - Part 2

    Britain's last aircraft carrier was scrapped a couple of weeks before everyone's 'hero', Cameron, decided to conquer Libya in 2 or 3 weeks, months ago.

    But the Ministry of Defence, always on the ball, has ordered two new aircraft carriers which will be delivered in a few years time.

    Everyone but everyone knows 'mods' aka 'variations' is where suppliers make money.

    So our gallant desk bound admirals ordered these ships, but without knowing what aircraft will fly from them - in fact there will be no aircraft when they hit the water. The choice of aircraft will determine if the carriers will be equipped with the standard steam driven or the latest maglev launching system.

    If they go with maglev on only one carrier it means when the maglev version is out getting oiled and greased the other, steam launcher version will be unable to launch the other carriers aircraft.

    So what did these expensive destroyers teach DOD about procurement? Squat! And once again the British tax payer get to pay twice or three times the original cost.

    Part 3 are the Trident submarines .....

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  11. david wilson

    Trials?

    re: "The system's first four trials even against subsonics saw two failures" in the article.

    Surely one of the points of trials is to find unexpected problems?

    I'd be more interested in what the /last/ trial results were.

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    1. despairing citizen
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Trials Data

      Suggest you watch Pentagon Wars, and then review trials data.

      Although the MoD has yet to achieve the level of creativity in "verifiable deviation from standard test data acumulation protocols", that the US Militatry and DoD have previously achieved.

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  12. Robert Grant
    Thumb Down

    @AndyLucia

    So other than "able to fend of Somalians in speedboats" his piece is pretty much accurate. Being fitted "for" X just means the obscene cost of the boat doesn't include the cost of X, so to make the thing useful you have to spend even MORE money on parts and labour.

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  13. despairing citizen
    FAIL

    Press Release vs Real Life

    "makers claiming that it can shoot down a cricket ball travelling at Mach 3 up to 75 miles away"

    only if the cricket ball has a death wish and is flying above the horizon.

    pilots without a death wish fly BELOW the horizon, so the first thing a 45 see's is a missle 20 miles out and due for impact in under 120 seconds.

    if the other side have any tactical sense, then what the 45 see's is a lot of missles 20 miles out, then even if the computer OS is working the defence system is swamped.

    Correct answer, Aircraft carrier with AEW, see low flying aircraft 150 miles away, and task fighter to kill it before it gets to 75 miles.

    (oh, that would have required us to spend £3Bn on a combat vessel, rather than 3x£1bn on a carrer oportunity for 3 captains)

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  14. rc
    Pint

    No worries gents...

    We'll make you a sweet deal on some Aegis cruisers at America's foreclosure sale next year. For a few extra bucks we'll throw in some missiles, a tank of fuel, and an mp3 player...

    You may have to outbid China, but I'm pretty sure the French invitation will be lost in the mail. Strange that...

    Beer icon: Because we can no longer afford good liquor...

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  15. Head

    Hmmm

    AHAHAHA noobs :P

    Seriously, if this excuse for a destroyer were escorting supply ships from the US to the UK, the war would have ended far sooner, and in Germany's favour

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  16. liquidphantom

    Thank you Labour

    for committing huge amounts of cash to utterly useless military acquisitions, blowing budgets out of the water to the point where huge cuts have to be made else where.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Except, of course .......

      ... that PAAMS/Sea Viper was a Conservative project, and they also had more than a hand in ensuring that the platform was less than ideal.

      http://navy-matters.beedall.com/paams.htm

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_CNGF

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  17. Magnus_Pym

    Government priorities

    Can't afford essential infantry support (bullet proof vests etc.), can afford House of Commons wine cellars. I think that tells us all we need to know about cuts.

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  18. Welshy
    Stop

    Oh dear...

    The amount of know-it-alls posting comments is astonishing, but not surprising. Far too many points to comment on, but my 2 cents...

    The primary purpose of a destroyer is to defend the fleet from the air, it is the primary purpose of a destroyer is to protect the fleet from smaller vessels. It's not about being a jack of all trades and a master of none.

    The S1850M and SAMPSON radars are cutting edge, able to track hundreds of projectiles at the same time. The Type-45 destroyers are by far the most advanced anti-air ships.

    I can't defend the cost issues though, it is indeed imsane, but that's BAE for you...!

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  19. Magnus_Pym
    Thumb Down

    Delete as appropriate

    It's all the fault of NuLabour/The Tories.

    If you think a single party could make a fuck up this big you have fundamentally misunderstood modern politics. It is the whole system that is at fault. It is the system that mandates flipping from one ideology to another every few years, the system that forces one government to reject out-of-hand anything the previous administration though worthwhile, the system that passes the baton between runners who despise each others values that is to blame. It has taken generations of self-serving and party dominated individuals of all hues and both civil and military to get to this state of affairs.

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