back to article NASA aims for space tests of Mars-in-a-month plasma drive

NASA will work with a firm started by a former astronaut to build a spaceworthy plasma drive capable of revolutionising travel beyond Earth orbit. However it appears that the space tests may not take place aboard the International Space Station (ISS) as had been planned. The VX-200 blasting Argon at full bore in ground trials …

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    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Happy

      @Remy redert

      An MR of 7 (roughly 14% structure) is well within *stage* design capability (the Centaur stage is reckoned to be about the best at 8%) but the joker is the size of the power supply.

      Note that while it would *only* get you to Mars orbit in 39 days (compared to IIRC about 18 months for the usual proposed crewed trip) you can do quite a lot from orbit (including launch stuff that *can* land).

      The *real* payoff is that it would turn once-in-a-career design/launch/build opportunity for any given experiment into a 5 year experiment cycle (18 months-2 years to design/build your experiment package, results by radio/laser starting within 50 days then a year-18 months to analyse them and do the next version).

      That would be with *one* shuttle to Mars. From the engine makers PoV they get a mountain of telemetry to refine their design (and I'm sure that there will be *lots* of room for improvement once 1.0 is tested). Making it a bus service (once every few months) would give experimenters a solid timetable to work from. And of course once at Mars power would not a problem. A 200Kw generator (or receiver) could probably power most of the science experiments *ever* launched at the same time.

      Depending on how this test is handled the future could be very bright indeed.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    VX200?

    Is that a sporty Vauxhall?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      VXR

      I've driven a VXR Vectra with more power than 270hp!

      Like the mars mission, it goes well in a straight line, but attempting to change trajectory it all falls apart and goes off on it's own tangent......

  2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Boffin

    Kill all Greens, get the Techno rolling!

    You know, when I was at uni and talked about nukes in space, other so-called "engineers" would decry the danger of "nuclear pollution of space". I had the terrible urge to bash in heads with a fire axe.

    "The fact is that even the launch of comparatively simple and low powered radioisotope-decay power units (as opposed to reactors proper) often draws a lot of technofear protest"

    Frack. That. Shit!!

    "and the bureaucracy and expense associated with spaceflight-rated nuclear technology is immense."

    Cut the red tape! Drop the regulatory horror! If need be, launch Doctor-No like from dead volcanoes in Zimbabwe or other cash-strapped places. They will be forgiving.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I had the terrible urge to bash in heads with a fire axe"

      I'm glad then that you are not in a position to make such decisions !

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Radiation...

      It's not the releasing radiation is space that I have a problem with, it's the loading radioactive materials onto devices that are launched from the Earth. Remember GLORY crashed and burned last week?

      That's not to say that I'm anti-radioactive fuels in space, it's just that you really need to make sure that they're not going to be a hazard if they fall to Earth in a fireball. After all, you basically can't go away from the sun using power generated by PV cells, there just isn't enough light.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    I must be missing something

    Are they talking about using a solar array to power this thing to Mars? Because I'm thinking a big sail travelling at a very high speed isn't going to cope well with any debris it encounters along the way.

    1. longbeast
      Happy

      Be optimistic!

      Sure it will!

      It's not going to be all on a single circuit in series. A solar array is, as the name suggests, an array - inherently built with some redundancy. You can prod holes in it all you like, and all you lose is a little bit of power where the actual damage happened. At worst you might have to shut down engines and EVA to reconnect a broken cable.

      There's not much risk of debris in interplanetary space though. Plenty of probes have gone that way before, solar panels unfurled all the way.

  4. BristolBachelor Gold badge
    FAIL

    200kW ??

    I'm currious as to where exactly the 200kW will come from on the ISS. To my understanding there is only 110kW user power available, and you would have to turn off everything to get all of that. I don't think that using all the solar array juice and not charging the batteries counts; the next 45 minutes without power would leave the ISS pretty dead. (Normally in sunlight half the array power charges the batteris for the next eclipse)

    Maybe the reason that this thing is car-sized if because it carries it's own juice as well as gas? The ones around here (although lower power) are more like the size of a remote controlled car rather than full-sized one.

  5. Ian 5
    Go

    Oh YES!

    it *is* rocket science... :o)

  6. Bobster

    "Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket"

    Bloody hell! Sounds like something from Thunderbirds?!

  7. BossHog

    This pleases me...

    "The blue glowing engine exhausts in Star Wars are actually quite realistic, it turns out"

    ...Immensely.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Return journey time?

    If you need a seven to one fuel/structure mass ratio for a 39 day transit does that mean a 63:1 ratio for a return trip (assuming the Earth/Mars distance stays just as favourable for both trips)?

    Rocket science makes my head hurt.

  9. Remy Redert

    @Saggar

    The 7 to 1 ratio is for a return trip, Earth orbit to Mars orbit and back.

    It's a bit high for commercial space flight still, but plenty low to use for Mars missions.

    And when the thing gets back to Earth, you can just refuel it and perform any required maintenance before sending it back out. It won't be a single use design.

  10. Stratman

    title

    Does any uberboffin know why argon is the propellant of choice for the engine?

    1. Chemist

      Just a guess..

      'cos I'm an organic chemist but maybe it forms a plasma more readily. Its ionisation potential is quite low whilst having reasonable mass.

      On the other hand maybe it's the blue glow that makes your spaceship look like a 'proper' spaceship

  11. Jacob Lipman

    Nuclear reactors... in space!

    Nuclear reactors in space are the best answer. I approve the poster's plan to launch from a country that doesn't give a shit if nuclear material is sprayed all over the place in the event that the rocket stack goes kaboom.

  12. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Boffin

    A note on Argon, nuclear reactors in space and alternative power sources.

    IIRC Xenon has been the preferred fuel for ion engines in space. It's *much* easier to store than Helium (the smallest atom) and being larger than Argon *should* be easier to ionize.

    However while Argon is likely to be harder to ionize (higher voltage power supply needed) it is also the most *common* noble gas in the atmosphere and perhaps most important of all, the *cheapest* as it's used in welding quite a lot.

    Being cheap and readily available (I'd expect large welding supply stores to have at least some in stock) can pay dividends when your research is on a budget.

    The problem with nuclear reactors in space (at least those in the *open* literature) is that they just are not *big* or current enough. The last *actual* US orbiting *reactor* was SNAP-10A in 1965, which was good for about 500W.

    The proposed SP100 (100Kw) for SDI in the early 80's never got out of design. Los Alamos has been designing something called the SAFE400, designed to deliver 100Kw of electrical power, as a sort of private project of the director, and that's about it in the US (of course the NRO, USAF and USN *could* have one on every big sat they've been orbiting since the 80s and simply not *told* anyone. However the presence of high temperature neutron emitting IR sources *anywhere* in Earth orbit would be a pretty big hint *someone* was using them and the list of countries that could is a short one).

    The US bought 6 TOPAZ reactors in the early 90s (and AFAIK still has them) but I don't think they bought any *fuel*. However even if they were good to go they would deliver about 5Kw

    each.

    Bottom line. No one is going to design, build and qualify a space nuclear reactor in the timescale needed (although a space reactor design in the 100Kw+ range, which gave more power than all but the *biggest* solar arrays, *would* be a good idea to have on the shelf for the future)

    Ground based turbo generators in the 200Kw range are used for emergency power and typically fueled by gasoline or natural gas. Assuming sea level air has a density 1.22521 kg/m3. and 20% of that mass is O2 then LOX is 4562x more dense (per cubic metre). It *should* be possible to build a power pack (LOX/fuel tanks, turbo-generator, controls) into a package you could stow on the Shuttle.

    While it would be enough to *start* the engine it's *very* doubtful to get the kind of run time that would be needed to show up any flaws that *only* shoe up in long term tests (936 Hrs, possibly with a re-start following flip over at the half way mark if you really want to go to Mars)

    BTW the way to avoid the exhaust interfering with the thrust measurements is to fit the exhaust pipe with a T end piece that exhausts in equal and opposite directions, canceling any thrust.

    Wiring this thing *directly* to the ISS power system and directly mounting it to the structure is *much* the simplest option.

  13. Neil Stansbury
    Thumb Up

    Electromagnetic Shielding?

    The extra exciting part, is the very large magnetic fields generated by the engines' super conducting magnets.

    I wonder if these could be used to provide an artificial magnetosphere for shielding the crew on long duration manned voyages.

    The engines also generate a magnetic torque that perhaps could be used to rotate the crew capsule creating a centripetal force to create artificil garvity.

    Solutions to two long-duration flight travel problems as a result of a by-product!

  14. Bronek Kozicki
    Go

    mass in space

    ... multiplied by speed turns to inertia, which must be preserved (unless opposite ... etc).

    So it does matter, only differently.

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