back to article Cyber-jihadists deface home of teddy bears' picnic

Geographically mixed-up Algerian hackers made themselves look rather silly by defacing the website of an English stately home instead of Belvoir Fortress in Israel, their intended target. Cyber-jihadis from a previously unknown group called Dz-SeC commandeered the website of Belvoir Castle to post an anti-Zionist rant along …

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FAIL

RE: @Peyton?

"....As a pure aside I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian position, I mean, if I lived somewhere and a bunch of people turned up and claimed that 2000 or so years ago God gave them my country I would be a tad hacked off myself...." So which "Palestinian" people would that be? There is no such racial group as "Palestinians", there has never been a country called "Palestine", it was a moniker given to an area by the occupying Romans who were intent on breaking up the then Jewish kingdom. In the old days prior to WW1, even Jews that left the area referred to themselves as Jewish Palestinians. Old Saint George was more than likely a Christian Palestinian. The area covered by the Manadate under British control between WW1 and WW2 range as far as Iraq (another artificial, colonial, boundary creation) and included a number of ethnic groups including several Jewish tribes, Bedouin, Syrians Arabs, Christian Arabs, Christian Maronites and the Druze. Historically, the land of Israel has changed hands many times (Egyptian, Babylonian, Turkish, Jewish, Roman and Persian dynasties have conquered it at one time or another), so who is the "rightful" owner? The Muslim "Palestinian" Arabs you sympathise with (out of historical ignorance, it seems) were themselves invaders from the Saudi area. So, if you're willing to accept one people's claim simply by right of historical conquest then you can't argue if the Christians go on another crusade or the Israelis conquer all of the West Bank and claim back all of their old kingdom. Of course, if the "Palestinians" had just accepted the original UN partition plan back in 1947 then they would have had a state called Palestine and would probably be a lot better of right now, but I'm sure you wouldn't criticise them for throwing away that chance and every one since to negotiate a Palestinain state.

"....Why don’t the church’s, mosques, synagogues etc just excommunicate (or the religious equivalent) anybody who is involved with any act of violence...." In the case of Islam, there is no such concept as excommunication. Even if you are condemned to the Msulim equivalent of Hell you do so as a condemned Muslim. To leave Islam is a crime against Allah punishable by death, even in so-called moderate Muslim countries like Egypt. Just Yahoogle for Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan for an insight into what leaving Islam can entail.

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Actual Question @ Matt Bryant

"male shaheeds (martyrs or Islamic warriors that die for the cause of Islam)"

Actually that's something I've wondered from time to time. This word you mention, 'shaheed', presumably it has some sort of authority in Islamic scripture? If so, can it literally be translated as 'martyr'? I've always wondered exactly when and how fanatical jihadists came to misinterpret the word 'martyr' so as to be able to apply it to people who *murder* for their religion (supposedly), rather than people who simply die for it.

To me, a maniac exploding a bomb in a crowded city street and killing dozens or hundreds of people can't legitimately label himself a 'martyr' just because he happens to die - by his own hand - in the act. Whether I agree with their religion or not, I'll recognise someone who is killed for their beliefs as a martyr - but not someone who chooses to die in the process of killing others. They're just a dead murderer.

So, as someone who knows the word you may know the story behind it. Is Islamic scripture really this hazy on the definition of 'martyr'?

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Boffin

RE: Actual Question @ Matt Bryant

As I understand it, shaheed and martyr are not quite the same thing, just close enough equivalents to make for an easy translation. As regards whether the suicidal act of blowing up "infidels" counts as a fitting thing for a "warrior" to be doing, it all comes down to your values system. Having lived and worked in the Mid-East, I soon realised that the ethnic group we refer to as "Arabs" have a different set of core values to what we consider the norm in the West, whether in business practices, family values or war. That's not to say their values are worse or better than ours, just different. The common mistake Western people make is assuming that Arabs will act or think in the way we would in a similar situation. If you are an extremist Islamist, then you may take the view that all non-Muslims are infidels and are the enemies of Islam, and that any act that kills them in preparation for the spreading the influence of Islam is a good thing, even if that means sacrificing your own life (and suicide is normally not a good thing in the eyes of Islam).

The Arabs aren't the only ones with a different mindset. The Allies were shocked at what the Japanese did to prisoners of war in WW2, they just didn't understand that the traditional Japanese considered any soldier taken prisoner as losing all honour. We were also shocked by the Kamikaze, but didn't know at the time that it had been official Japanese military policy NOT to endorse Kamikaze missions, it wasn't until the War was almost over that the official Kamikaze campaign was approved. Even today, people tell me that doing business in Japan is completely different to Europe or the US. But then we don't even have to go as far as Japan, we use such terms as "vive la difference" to point out the cultural differences between the UK and France.

In the meantime, we're off on another round of doomed Mid-East peace talks, all because the politicians assume that both sides (Israeli and "Palestinian") will act like Westerners and want peace. Sorry if I sound pessimistic, but I can't see either side being willing to make the concessions the other demands, even with Obama's big and cheesy grin being used on them. So we'll probably have more than a few similar threads to come here, more arguments over who is "right", and more confused Westerners wondering how the Heck it got to such a mess.

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Pirate

Typically cunning PR ...

for the DVD release of FOUR LIONS?

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Stop

Jihadis are so dumb

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Teddy bears, cartoons, pigs, schoolteachers, women... Whatever will they think of hating next?

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Well, according to reports last week

They're planning to hate the aid workers who have gone to help the victims of the recent floods.

I mean, seriously, WTF?

Hopefully it's the usual load of media made-up stuff.

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Anonymous Coward

No it's probably true, unfortunately...

Their reasoning being that for once the west is actually providing effective aid that is visibly helping a few million muslims (rather than our slightly more traditional approach of shooting them).

Obviously this can't be allowed to continue, people might stop hating us, so they're threatening to target aid workers to discourage us helping.

And if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the mindset of these lunatics, nothing will.

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Joke

Algerian hackers?

With a geographical ballsup of that magnitude are we sure that they're not just proving their credentials in order to help their applications for US citizenship?

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Headmaster

That's pronounced "Beaver" Castle

much to the amusement of myself and countless other children of the East Midlands who went there on school trips for no adequately explored reason

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Pronounced 'Beaver'?

Actually I just discovered this when dealing with someone with the surname 'Belvoir': apparently British people have pronounced it 'Beaver' since the time of the Anglo-Saxons. It seems the Anglo-Saxons couldn't pronounce the complicated Norman-French word and simplified it.

Personally, it's news to me. I've lived in the UK all my life and I've never known anyone -- up until the said surname-bearer -- pronounce it as anything other than 'belv-WAHR'. Of all the French words we've imported, this has got to be one of the easier ones.

'Croissant', on the other hand -- now *that's* tricky. 'Krwah-'? Madness, I tell you.

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Troll

To our US cousins

Please don't think that when we're living in our castles that we're not just having tea parties for teddies and dollies.

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Wasn't Belvoir Castle

in the family of William de Staunton who was a Crusader in the 3rd Crusade? Maybe they got the right place after all.....

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Now things really will get nasty

Do not anger the teddy bears. Just don't.

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Happy

I have the urge to sing...

If you log onto the web today, you're sure of a big surprise...

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Anonymous Coward

Viking Crusaders

Anyway, why do extremists blame the Brits for the Crusades? The Crusades were campaigns by the Normans (basically French-domiciled Vikings) who had also conquered and brutally oppressed Anglo-Saxon England. So let's blame the Danes, and we all know how well their flag burns:-)

All this would be lost on these particular cyber-jihadists, who clearly couldn't find their own arses with both hands and a torch.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Viking Crusaders

>who clearly couldn't find their own arses with both hands and a torch

I've just tried that and I've lost my torch.

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Stop

The Obvious Question

Can you see light at the end of the tunnel?

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Megaphone

DEATH TO ALL TEDDYBEARS!!!

I've always found them suspicious

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Joke

Sinister Ducks

I think you'll find it's the ducks you have to keep an eye out for: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2004/01/you-think-theyre-cuddly-but-i-think.asp

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true, and the dolphins too

INFIDELS, the lot of them!!!!!

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I suspect

that the "Cyber-jihadis from a previously unknown group called Dz-SeC" is actually one fourteen year-old, undereducated, mamma's-boy nitwit.

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Coat

I, for one,welcome...

...our ursine Overlords

Hey it really is nice to see everyone (mostly) treating all this with the true British sense of the ridiculous that it deserves. Fine efforts, fellows, very fine!

Oh, and errr.. to the question @Bad taste asked: No.

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FAIL

All together now!

If you log onto the web today

You’re sure of a big surprise

If you log onto the web today

You’re not going to believe your eyes

A site’s been hacked, a mix up there was

Belvoir Castle made some jihadists cross

Today’s the day the hackers got their wires crossed.

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Silver badge

Its every schoolboys dream

to conquer beaver castle.

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Happy

or at least

learn to wrestle a beaver. it's as much fun as poking them with a stick.

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Anonymous Coward

We all know

It was a bunch of spotty thirteen year old berks (possibly living in Leicestershire?) with to much time on their hands (and sticky stuff on their sheets) don't we?

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Troll

And when they get their afterlife,

they will BE one of the 72 virgins.

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Big or small

islam (and muslims) is a danger to the human race and must be BAN RIGHT NOW. Islam is simply not compatible with human life/Inteligent life form

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Thank you for enlightening us with your reasoned discourse.

I think we've all learned something from it.

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Anonymous Coward

Irony, anyone?

"islam (and muslims) is a danger to the human race and must be BAN RIGHT NOW. Islam is simply not compatible with human life/Inteligent life form"

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Silver badge

as in

freedom of religion except for those who think differently from me!!!!!!!

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Oz
WTF?

Re: Big or small

I'm not normally one to respond to comments in this way but, Mectron, sir... you are a cretin! Do you happen to read the Daily Mail (assuming you can read, that is)?

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@Mectron

Would you by any chance work for Mossad?

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FAIL

you're a little late for that

they already have their shar'ia courts set up and have two feet in the door.

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Whoops.

Whoa, what a fustercluck.

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Perpetual recyled virgins

They are supposed to miraculously "re-virginate" every morning. Sort of like "Goundhog Day" meets "The Prisoner", only there's no escape.

And don't blame the Christians, it was the Romans' fault for re-structuring Christianity for their own imperial ends, until then it was fairly benign.

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Grenade

So the Virgins, what are they all about?

So speculating on the Virgins where do they come from?

Given that they have been assigned the onerous task of servicing the succesful Jihadist presumably they are formed from minor sinners in a previous life? Your veneal rather than mortal sinners, and then they are 're-virginated' and get a pass through the pearly gates.

So anyways thats OK, with luck this shouldn't be a problem for me, it is you women out there that needs to make sure you die in a state of grace. The again what about that gay suicide bomber ........ where does his 72 come from, whoops, oh s*i*........ 'Hail Mary for I have sinn.......'

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: So the Virgins, what are they all about?

I believe the virgins amount to a translation mistake, don't they? It's a bit unfortunate, really.

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Flame

72 virgins (or not as the case may be) or 1 sarah bee

hmmmm decisions decisions

also given that the cyber jihadists missed the mark by 2200 miles ish (as the crow flies) does this mean they were trained by americans, who lets face it could not hit the side of a fast food joint from 3 paces?

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Thumb Up

Houri

".... smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, ........"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri

Panic over for indeed the inestimable Sarah is correct.....

"........Iḥūr or ḥūrīyah (Arabic: حورية‎) are described as "(splendid) companions of equal age (well-matched)", "lovely eyed", of "modest gaze", "voluptuous women", "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradise, denoting humans and jinn who enter paradise after being recreated anew in the hereafter. ......."

Reading through this stuff it looks like 'Houri' are largely women (there is some confusion with gender and the translation from Arabic), but in any event 'attractive' (counts me out!). Whoah whoah, whoah should I inadvertantly make it to heaven I won't be spending eternity doing 'business' services for some pimple covered Jihadist brown hat hacker. WTG FPTY TFFT

Feel a bit sorry for the girls, oh and the attractive people. But then again they get all the breaks down here..... do I really care that Arnie, Jordan, or MLF have to spend an eternity ..... nah lets get on with the morning after all it's their career choice?

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Coat

@Titus Technophobe

"....Virgins where do they come from?"

Er, here? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/06/egyptians_uptight/

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Grenade

Translation error

So you go to all that trouble, make the suicide video, blow yourself up...

...and when you get to heaven they tell you "Sorry - translation error. Turns out you're actually spending eternity with 72 perpetual celebrities."

(On a cruder note, if you've exploded yourself it's no wonder the virgins stay that way, since your bits are dispersed all over the street.)

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Translation errors

So a bit like witch then.

Very convenient translation errors, gives you a way to get rid of people you don't like without having to do it your self.

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Silver badge

Belief

It's not about religions really, is it? It's about belief. Specifically, it's about UNREASONABLE belief.

People who are prone, for whatever reason, to believe what they are told and fail to question it are easy to manipulate. Religion, therefore, is a tool used for political advancement. It's not the religion that fails, specifically, its merely that it acts as a vehicle for the machinations of those who have the intellect and will to make use of it.

The same goes for other motivating factors; Patriotism springs to mind as an example (My country right or wrong. Isn't that the cry of patriotic Americans in some cases?).

Atheism too sometimes teeters on the brink of being an 'unquestioning faith' and the only thing that sends it spiralling into the same status as religion is that it retains the readiness to be questioned; to allow for reasoned examination. Indeed, it encourages such, unlike religions which hold the converse; unquestioning faith; as a virtue.

it is, I believe, therefore that we must guard against two thing; extremism and unquestioning obedience. Whether it is religion, science or patriotism we must be encouraged to question, to understand and to deliberate in a civilised manner and to respect the views of others. Only then might we see an end to conflict, as each soldier, suicide bomber or fundamentalist stops for a second, considers what they've just been told is "right", "true" or "their duty" and says....

....hang on just one bloody minute.....!?

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Refer to Prattchet's "Small Gods"

for one of the best analyses on this topic.

Voltaire's statement that self-mockery is the highest human value also springs to mind here

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Anonymous Coward

MOSSAD

Like it wasn't a MOSSAD false flag op?

Yawn. Wake up and smell the pretzels you schmucks.

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Grenade

I've said it before and I'll say it again,,,

Please God/Mohammed/Jehovah/Deity of choice (delete as appropriate)

save me from the

Muslims/Jews/Christians/Enemy of choice (delete as appropriate)

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Well...

Downvoted?

I'll have you know that the last time I said this on El Reg it got upvoted! TWICE!

Some people have no sense of humour. Or humor for the leftpondians.

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A different version

I prefer the saying

"Please, God, save me from your followers."

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WTF?

Oops

I appear to have unintentionally triggered a flame war with a tongue in cheek comment. My apologies. Anyway, keep it up, it makes fun reading.

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