back to article Vista-hating Microsoft throws poo at Apple's iPhone 4

Microsoft really, really hates its dud Vista operating system - so much so that it can now openly badmouth its own product while taking a bitchy stab at Apple and its current iPhone 4 antenna woes. The company’s COO Kevin Turner took to the stage at Microsoft’s annual partner shindig yesterday to offload some snarky soundbites …

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Simple...

Microsoft: The inventors of the slash-and-burn merger. (How much did Danger cost again?)

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Pint

There's more than one interpretation...

... of "We don’t have a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil".

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How about a free upgrade then?

If MS are admitting that Vista is a waste of disk space then how about they offer a free upgrade to Win7 for all their Vista users?

Would be a nice way to bring back some positive feeling about MS operating systems for many who feel a bit disenfranchised after having been lumbered with Vista and don't want to pay twice for the OS.

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Anonymous Coward

I second the emotion

I agree with H.C. because unless Microsoft give me a free upgrade of vista to Windows 7 there is no way I'm buying another Microsoft product again.

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I third that motion

Especially as I was forced to have it pre-installed on my laptop last year 'twas an extra cost to "downgrade" it to XP.

I've already upgraded my older machines from XP... to Ubuntu.

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Count me in.

Windoid people complained about OS X 10.6 costing $40 and said it should've been free; but I upgraded from XP to Vista home premium for $120 and that's a 2 hour ordeal. Now, it's lost all the ownership keys to all my programs -including itself- which means I have to reload EVERYTHING! That's a whole day! If I want to move up to W7, that's between $200 > $600! (W7 Ultimate)

W7; Now THAT should've been free! (...or $40)

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"give me a free upgrade of vista to Windows 7"

I'd prefer a free upgrade of Vista to Windows XP. The only thing they'd need to do to make it "modern" is remove the 1 line of code from DirectX that says:

If Windows version != 6.0 or 6.1 then: x = randint(1,64) print("you have error ", x, " bye") quit

And similar code from all their other crap. But not IE9, no one cares if that runs on XP or not.

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Silver badge
WTF?

"We don't have a mission statement

- to remind us not to do evil"

And it shows.

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Gates Horns

I expect

Darth Vader didn't have one either.

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WTF?

Ghandi and Jesus had no such mission statement either.

Yes MS talking about someone else's evil is kettle calling pot black, but your counter argument doesn't hold any weight.

I think the posters point was that Google should be suspect themselves for having such a statement necessary. It implies they have an inherent desire to do evil, that they must remember to remind themselves of not to follow.

And really Apple fanbois? Your going to really get so hot under the collar for the anti Apple people pointing out how bad of a track record Apple has with its early release products? Yet people line up still. I do agree with above poster though, nothing stays cool on its own despite the obvious reality. If Apple doesn't do a major about face on quality and openness, I do think they will continue to suffer, and will certainly loose market share. If they continued Apple's cool will die, I do think they will will about face, and change course before too long though. Watch for Steveo to step down soon under pressure from board to a Bill Gates style advisory role. Yes i just said that,

sounds crazy with profits going through the roof, but the board fired this guy before, and his personality is starting to become a detriment for Apple image, If apple want to expand beyond the 10-20% fan market they need a new image.

I don't think Apple will blindly continue on to obscurity though, they will right their path, and at least make them selves cool enough to stay a niche for a long long time.

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MIssion Statement and Google...

"I think the posters point was that Google should be suspect themselves for having such a statement necessary".

I think that the founders knew that the temptation would be present (and indeed it has manifested itself) and they KNEW that things would start to go off the rails (greed, human nature). I have no love for Google, but I do not vehemently dislike them. They have not caused me to spend hundreds and hundreds of [insert your currency here] on antiviral and anti-malware applications, Office suite licenses, and O/S "upgrades" that offer a downgrade at an extra cost. They have not broken my system with one of their upgrades, requiring days to get things back to normal, and they don't assume their customers are thieves or lock them out of their systems when a legitimate application glitches and "thinks" it has been stolen.

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Recycle

I remember being in a technology seminar in '96 where two flailing Novell marketing types spent the entirety of their alloted hour slagging off Microsoft and their products. Needless to say rather than putting us poor punters off buying Microsoft, they only really confirmed to me how perilously close to the void Novell was as a business.

This to me is clearly signalling the final demise of the great Beast of Redmond . Rest assured, in no time at all it will be the great Cupertino's turn for a recycle...

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Yes

Reminds me of a certain bunch of Red politicos a few months back who spent their campaign saying more about how rubbish the opposition were...

It's a shame, really, NetWare was a pretty good technology.

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Title?

NetWare wasn't; it had poor to non-existent memory protection between running processes and one got used to seeing abends a LOT. NDS/eDirectory on the other hand was bloody brilliant.

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Gates Horns

Sour grapes

When will they ever learn. I was at the UK rollout of Win95 and Microsoft were equally (if not more) scathing about Windows 3.1. Somewhere along the line, they will slam Windows 7 too - and rightly too.

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Boffin

Google Mission slap

He'd have bitch slapped Google more effectively if he had said "We don’t NEED a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil"

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Anonymous Coward

"We don’t have a mission statement that reminds us not to do evil"

I'm reminded of that every time I 'phone MS support and they insist on taking credit card details before they'll talk to me. "Don't worry, if it's our fault, we won't charge you!", they say. It's their fault (surprise). They charge me. I 'phone support to complain. They won't talk to me without taking credit card details. "Don't worry...", they say.

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Gates Halo

On the other hand

I had about six different techies working on a particularly recalcitrant busted site connector in Exchange for me for about 4 days for £199 ex VAT; skilled guys, professional and very helpful. I'd call that pretty good value.

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Anonymous Coward

Alternate explanation

"iPhone 4 might be their [Apple's] Vista."

meaning an internally perceived good idea that sold badly because of some inherent issues. If Win 7 is MS back on track, then need only await Apples Win 7.

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Nope

iPhone 4 is selling like shit off a shovel. It's only people on forums who dont even intend on buying the product that are getting upset about it.

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Problem with this is...

The people who make the iPhone successful are uninformed, they see the shiny new toy from apple, they recall the fantastic user experience they (or their friends) had with the previous iPhone, they trust that things with the latest incarnation are only going to be better, and then they get let down.

This, if not handled properly by Apple is either a disaster or an opportunity. Jobs is all about the end-user experience so he should (if he hasn't started to feel entitled and now looks at his customers as peasants) be kicking some serious butt about this glaring error.

When you stop and think about this though it makes you wonder if it is an Apple originated problem or a manufacturer originated problem. The engineers must have known that the antenna loop needed to be insulated from contact with the skin, it is such a glaring oversight that seems like it was made by an ignorant individual, a business person with no technical understanding? Perhaps to cut production costs?

In any event, the deed is done, the phone needs a fix, Apple needs to do damage control, be sweet and pleasant to their customers, find the cause of the flaw (how this happened), fix it, try to ensure things like this never happen again (lessons learned) and move forward. If they fail to do any of this they, no matter how popular, risk alienating newcomers who will probably never return, and sow the seeds of mistrust in existing clients.

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Silver badge

Another point of view.

Fanboism asside (and you all know who you are ... just admit it, you'll sleep better), here at Chez jake we've been microsoft, apple and google free for over half a year. Doesn't seem to have made our lives any drabber ... although, I must admit that I quite enjoy the lack of near daily routine computer maintenance on the home systems.

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Joke

So...

...what you're actually saying is...your PC broke down 6 months ago, and you haven't fixed it yet. Got you.

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Happy

MSFT is starting to get nervous.

Let's see here.... A major OS upgrade (Vista) crashed and burned beyond belief. The reaction to Windows 7 is "meh" and "another cuppa XP, please, thanks". Infoworld says "Windows Phone 7: Don't bother with this disaster" right on the heels of the Kin crashing and burning to the point that people wonder if it sold triple-digit units. People say Ballmer is clueless and that the company's direction and strategy went out the door with Gates.

Now they're down to badmouthing the competition. Wow. The only thing keeping them alive now is Office, isn't it? And I've heard little about any sort of coming-features update marketing for it.

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Anonymous Coward

Tombo

Don't badmouth office, it's got the ribbon!

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Anonymous Coward

Im getting confused.

There are too many people posting as Anonymous Cowards on this thread and its doing my head in!!!

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Silver badge
Stop

Don't upset the Jobsian fan-bois

You know how upset they get.

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Happy

Re: Dont upset ...

... as opposed to the Gatesian fan-bois, who love being upset!

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FAIL

WOW

fanbois out in force today

*fingers in ears*

Apple are infallible, lalalalalala, can't hear/read what you say, lalalalalala apple products are perfect in every way lalalalalala nothing you say can sway my mind lalalalalalala

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Anonymous Coward

Tombo

Or how about, "lalalala I don't want to hear that people like Apple's products because it disagrees with what I just said and my ego is super sensitive so I'll just call them stupid!"

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Only One Solution

Tape.

It apparently works on the iPhone. It works for Vista (if you tape-up your CD-ROM drive before attempting to insert the install disc). And, it would work for so many of the posters here if they would have a friend wrap it around them and a chair. A chair with an anchor tied to it. A chair with an anchor tied to it and a view of the BP gulf oil spill.

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Flame

Dont upset the anti-fan-bois

I've recently noticed that the back lash at fan-bois is nearly passing the strength of the fan-boi feeling. Not just here but anywhere that people discuss the pros/cons of Apple vs Anything.

Back in my day you could rely on the fan-boi having that wild eyed rant that Apple was great. But now the worm has turned. The foaming mouth spittle comes from the anti-fan-boi in much more abusive terms than it ever did before.

Maybe it just part of our culture that we dont like to see things going well or done right? Or that when youre being happy and enthusiastic you're polite with it. But when you hate something you have to be offensive while you do it?

I know its probably too much to ask for a reasoned debate on the inter-tube whorums. But isn't it about time everyone realised that EVERY company has its good periods and bad periods.

Remember SONY and their DRM. GOOGLE and the wi-fi snoop. DELL and their defective non-recalls. EXXON sinking a tanker. BP blowing out a well. SHELL and their faked reserve statements.

Next month it'll be someone elses turned to ride the roller coaster of highs and lows. So why rant?

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Anonymous Coward

Simple

Ranting is fun.

And i'll bet that many a vicious rant doesn't even reflect the real person's own opinions.

But i agree that there can be a very fine line between ranting and trolling.

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Jobs Horns

D

Apple fanbois are like unreformed middle aged lefties (who are actually biggoted right wingers).

My friend who works as an Apple Genius used to be a commando Apple fanboy without a critical bone in his body. He now critically appraises the Apple products on the market and while he absolutely loves his Macbook Pro, Air and all his other toys, he thinks the iPhone 4 is a piece of shit and he is selling his iPad because it's a waste of space. This is a dedicated Apple fanboy, and he thinks the last two products that Apple have released are failures.

Makes you think. Maybe Jobs is losing the plot.

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Silver badge
Coat

Oracle fanboy on MickeySoft and Apple?

Well, tbh, I happen to own an iphone 3G and it works fine, except for battery-life. I have it in a special case, just like my Blackberry before that. I imagine if I were to get an iPhone 4, I think I will when my contract expires, I will put it into a case as well, alleviating this antenna issue ... it is a minor issue compared to the HastLaVista fiasco ... If the anti Apple gang have found only that to be wrong with the iPhnoe 4, then I will certainly get one.

I hate Apple as a company but I must give credit where credit is due....

Mac's? best pieces of kit out there, by an entire league! - especially because of the OS. The laptops are so much better designed than lappies from any other vendors I've seen. Sony, HP, Dell, Acer, and Lenovo are all utter crap. My company HP laptop does not allow me to change the battery either, but without Apple battery management, this is just insane.... I owned a Powerbook Ti for 5 years, and after 5 years of intensive use both at home and at work, the battery life still exceeded that of new laptops out at the time - ok, the CPU was totally outdated and running the latest Mac OS a bit slow. And in 2006 it was still thinner than 99% of laptops from the competition. laptops in 2001, when I bought my powerbook, were two to almost three times as thick ... ;-).

Somebody broke into my house in 2006 to take just that, not my dv video camera, not my mac mini, not my TV or anything else of value ... they came for the powerbook.

I will stick to Solaris on my custom hw and my cute little iPhone ...

Don't upset the fan-bois, you know how upset they get.

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Ti-book...

It still looks good - shut!!... and was a good workhorse, bar a few niggly details, mine was a gigabit Ti-book, so all the paint on the carbon fibre flaked off... then the hinges cracked and I would get electric shocks from the bare carbon which became more pronounced when i was hot and sweaty... but it was a lovely machine to use...

My Powerbook 1.6SD also looks beautiful, runs lovely and apart from 2 superdrives, needing a new battery every other year was a good tool until the charging regulator gave up the ghost...

so what is my laptop of choice now? a Panasonic toughbook with Win7! stellar battery life, un matched outdoor useability and so far no hardware issues at all... and this ones been dropped, soaked and used by my 2yearold!

Apple, - meh!

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"We don’t read your email"

That's because even WE don't bother reading what's in our Hotmail accounts, mate!

In fact, you're welcome to read it - buy some of the things they're trying to sell you, as far as I'm concerned, Mr Turner.

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4 is unlucky in some parts of the world

Four is an unlucky number in some parts of the world, so will not sell as well as it might with a different number.

People have bought a phone, so it should be one eventually, even if the hardware is swapped to do so.

I don't have an iPhone ( I have a Nokia 5800), and iTunes IS shite.

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Yay

I think ill-informed bile and flaming (from both sides) in this thread could best be summarised in the words of the great sage and poet, Eric Cartman:

CRIPPLE FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

Why yes, that is my coat.

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Coat

Y

You forgot your coat.

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Hold it

“You will be able to use Windows Phone 7 and not have to worry about how they hold it."

You *can't* hold it. It's software. Not to mention, at this point, vapourware.

Microsoft has strict requirements regarding what kind of hardware WP7 can be installed on (number and function of buttons, etc). Have they added a new requirement to the list, along the lines of "No iPhone 4 style antennas"?

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FAIL

So, doesn't that mean...

That if I put a bumper round a Vista PC it will work?

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Anonymous Coward

Well ... each to their own

Regardless of what you think of the product. Apple consumer devices are pretty much idiot proof. Part of this is because of the locked down nature.

Give an idiot a windows PC and there will more more malware than you can shake a big stuick out.

Anyhoo ... are MS saying that Vista was not fit for purpose ? Any chance of a free upgrade on my daughters laptop you bastids ?

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FAIL

I was going to get an iPhone4

But didn't bother, not because of the quality problems, but because it's overpriced and under-spec

The HTC Desire is twice the phone at half the cost.

I predict right now, 2014 the iPhone (if Apple if still around then), will be introducing desktop widgets in iOS...

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Headmaster

Vista Shmitza

Vista was before its time: hardware that was enough for XP was not enough for it, the new driver model was better but the OEMs were lagging behind (I'm looking at you nVidia!) etc. If the widely well regarded Windows 7 had been released instead of Vista back then, the result would not have been different - the 7 is basically Vista plumbing with some optimizations.

Vista has often been reviled time and again, yet it was not a financial disaster - it sold and sold well, mostly due to bundling.

iPhone4 will sell well, mostly due to punters. Apple will continue to receive flack for its fascist approach.

Mainwhile Android will continue its rise, gaining mindshare as well as market.

I do think Windows 7 Phone is a bit too late. But we'll see.

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Vista/Win7

Win 7 could have been released in place of Vista. There isn't much that Win7 does that couldn't have been done at the time. Even so it would still be less that Microsoft said Vista would have when it was announced.

That is what pisses a lot of people off. They bought Vista thinking it was going to be Win 7. In order to finally get what they thought they paid for they must pay again.

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Gates Horns

Vista..

MS Could have changed the UI, wallpaper, screen-saver and boot/shut down screens, called it Vista, still would have sold the same amount due to bundling, how many people rushed out and bought the Vista Ultimate??? How many people regret it?!?

I saw an advert for a Vista disc it actually said "don't get Win7, stick with Vista"!

If you look closely (especially the network settings) the Win2000/XP dialogue boxes are still in Vista/7!

They are just buried behind more "user-friendly" dialogue boxes.

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Silver badge
Unhappy

Won't somebody think of the chil.. users?

Still don't know where I can get a nice compact phone that works simply and reliably.

...

From ANY maker!

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Thumb Up

Palm Centro

I think you can still get on one from Sprint in the US.

Does video, picture, sound recording, and everything is simple and easy any phone number or email (anywhere, in a memo, todo list, or out on the web can be clicked to call or email easily.)

It has office docs, a free 1024bit key password locking system, and lots of really great apps (all the palm aps out there)

I have dropped and beaten it up, my wifes even survived a submersion. tough reliable phones, I will be very sad to get rid of it.

Its small, but has a screen you can actually watch a video on, but will fit a shirt breast pocket.

Best of all, you should be able to get it for FREE when signing up for even just a year contract, and a used one should be near free on e-bay. Battery will last for 2 days of moderate use before needing a charge, EVEN TWO YEARS INTO USING IT! (almost no life degradation is the most impressive.)

Palm desktop lets you synce all your docs pics etc, and you can even sync it up with Ubuntu/Linux.

It does not have WiFi or GPS - but I can't say I've ever missed them. Google maps always locates me withing a block and part of why the battery lasts so long (i keep bluetooth off too)

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WTF?

Retardfest 2010

God this article was a retard fest. Including the author =D Therefore I have come to join in the pointless poo flinging fun!

Anonymous Coward @ Vista Smista, I fear your well reasoned argument will fall upon deaf ears here. Join us on our wheel-free train as we jovially paint our fell man with feces for his internet opinions!

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