back to article School IT quango to be expelled

Becta, the education IT procurement quango, is to be scrapped as part of the new government's £6.2bn cuts this year, announced by George Osborne this morning. Schools are expected to get more control over their technology purchases as a result. Becta did not buy computers and software for schools, but instead drew up framework …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        reply

        The schools pay nothing.

        These were under the home access package

        And becta enforced maximum margins etc. For example lets say our package with costs and our % comes to £380.

        the grant value is £400. We cant just charge £400 and pocket the difference as Becat required proff of costs

        To give you an idea of the good prices they can get.

        PC with full office STD 2007. 3 years AV, 3 years parental controls. £500 educational software. 1year insurance cover. 1 year support. monitor speakers etc. all for less than £400

        add 1 years internet by 3 and its £528.

  1. Nigel Callaghan
    Thumb Up

    Go on, do a proper job...

    Go on Ozzy, go for the biggie - cull Ofsted, and that's another £200+ million saved.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Privatise Becta?

    Becta's chief executive, Stephen Crowne, is quoted as saying:-

    "Becta is a very effective organisation with an international reputation, delivering valuable services to schools, colleges and children. Our procurement arrangements save the schools and colleges many times more than Becta costs to run."

    Right, so it would be a viable private sector operation, selling its services to schools and colleges. Right? I mean, as Crowne says, their "procurement arrangements save the schools and colleges many times more than Becta costs to run." That means those schools and colleges can pay the entire costs of Becta, plus a bit more (so that Becta's making a profit for its shareholders), and still be saving money. Right?

    So, let's privatise Becta, and let it sink or swim in the private sector.

    Or would Crowne suddenly find all sorts of reasons why that just wouldn't be viable?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Risk

      Fine, allow Becta to operate as a private company. However, their success will be dependent on critical mass (to achieve economy of scale). The last government would have insisted that schools still use them - hence a hybrid private / public monopoly.

      My rail journey is privatised. I have no choice (driving is not viable), the company has a monopoly, prices go up (OK, this year, there was a marginal decrease due to RPI).

      So privatise Becta but make sure schools are free to do as they choose.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Becta missed their chance

    My experience of supplying a couple of schools is that they have the usual MS mess. They didn't seem to be aware of Becta at all and sourced PC's/laptops in the usual way.

    We've replaced some PC's which run the crucial interactive whiteboards with Ubuntu PC's and so there is a real way forward to reliable systems. The new IWB software from Promethean has been re-written from the ground up to run on Ubuntu.

    The on-site IT bod is now re-using (failed Windows) PC's as LTSP terminals. Teachers have now been getting Ubuntu PC's which match the PC's in their classrooms. Macs are going to be used in the music rooms.

    Don't forget - one huge advantage of Ubuntu is that they are all the same - and upgrading to the latest version is trivial. (A client of ours who knows nothing about PC's just upgraded his Ubuntu work PC cause he clicked on the 'upgrade' button when checking for updates).

    Also, all the educational software in the repository is free and a piece of cake to install.

    The problem with Windows is that it's fragmented. The teacher might find an application they like on their home PC or school laptop. But in the classroom it won't work because; it's Vista, XP SP2 (not 3), wrong Java, infected, wrong version of office, Win 7, or some other unfathomable reason. That's without even mentioning all the licence issues.

    On Ubuntu it's - click Software Centre - select app - click install. Do same in school.

    Becta could have put together a framework to run schools entirely on OSS - some Windows running in VM's to show children for (PC history lessons) testing etc.

    Not difficult - server running Samba, Postfix would even allow odds and sods MS laptops brought in to access files/emails.

    They could then have saved the billions sent to MS for (cheap) licenses - and this money could have been further invested into the schools systems.

    But the main advantage would have been this - we'd have had IT students coming out who knew something about IT. All we're seeing is youngsters who know how to use (MS) spreadsheets. And possibly some other things about MS networking. Considering the internet runs on Unix they are effectively useless for business.

    Me - How can I help?

    ICT student - Can I have a work placement?

    Me - Do you know anything about LInux - the vast proportion of websites and email systems run on Linux, LAMP etc Anything about PHP, Python, etc

    ICT student - No, we've done some things on spreadsheets and stuff.

    Me - Have you done anything not on Microsoft.

    ICT student - Umm - not sure - what else is there?

    Me - Might be an idea to go to Uni first and find out about IT - thanks for your call.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      Plenty of truth in your post...

      ...but don't get me started on IT Uni Grads....plenty of them are still clueless.

      1. Antony King
        Happy

        it grads!=people who learnt IT @ uni

        He didn't say IT Uni grads, he said people who had learnt IT while at Uni. Subtle difference :-) One of our best IT guys studied hospitality management

    2. Commentator

      Ubuntu - not fit for purpose

      Ah, kool - Ubuntu. And of course, it never has problems. It doesn't drop printer access when upgrading from 'release' to 'release' - or muck up Samba, or cross-platform file sharing, or impose network traffic limits, or drop innocent users into a morass of vi/nano instructions.

      And such a support community, too! You never come across arrogant self satisfied responders who delight in obfuscation by referring noobs to 'just sudo this...'

      Or provides such wonders as Gimp, which almost, but just not quite does anything you want.

      There is a reason business does not use Ubuntu - it's not fit for purpose. And the idea of introducing it into a school environment with the expectation that it will /reduce/ IT frustration and cost is simply risible.

      I'll skip mentioning the thought that your attitude to a ICT student seeking a work placement in an environment where thay might learn about Linux pretty much sums up everything one needs to know about the attitude of Linux proponents I have come across.

  4. Sean Timarco Baggaley
    FAIL

    Come back Research Machines!

    All is forgiven!

    Nice to see the traditions of crap UK education are still going strong. Seriously: the IT Teacher complaining about having to maintain an interest in their subject? Priceless!

    I worked for a private school for a few years. Convincing the head that, yes, if you're going to teach IT, you really *do* need some f*cking computers in a classroom, was a genuinely epiphanic moment. (And no, I'm not kidding: she honestly thought it could be done entirely using textbooks!)

    So don't get your hopes up about the private sector. Just because you're not being paid by a local education authority, it doesn't mean you're not incompetent.

    Bye-bye BECTA. Like most quangos, you won't be missed.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Computers for Schhols Vouchers

    Never fear everyone can always shop at Tescos and collect those computer for schools vouchers they always ask if you are collecting. Job done.

  6. Bendy
    WTF?

    Piffle

    'We also now have School IT staff doing MORE paper work and research into computers, best prices and so on.'

    Bo****ks, We have always had to do this (If your talking about dedicated IT Staff), because Becta and LA's didn't and don't. There were frameworks for purchasing, but these have been ignored by LA's and by the majority of Schools.

    To the open source crowd: make your products manageable to the scale that we need in school and I'll use your products! How many corporations use Linux on the desktop? - You are getting there but not nearly fast enough - Smoothwall is a brilliant example of it done correctly.

    To the Government: Make the prefered suppliers of MIS systems stop hard coding and assuming that MS Office is on every machine.

    A greater and much easier Saving would be made if a few local Schools got together and purchased machines once a year.

    I don't think Crowne's £220k wage was ever justifiable. And if you look at the payscales on the Becta website they are all pretty disgusting for the amount of work they actually do.

    Becta did make some good frameworks, but as they were ignored they have made no difference, each supplier/school has there own standards, and that mess is due to continue for some time. If they had been enforced we wouldn't be where we are now.

    1. Anton Ivanov

      To the open source crowd: make your products manageable...

      It has always been manageable

      You are forgetting, Unix (and its linux offspring) were born and bred in educational institutions. The problem is not their manageability, but the lack of competence in IT staff on deploying Linux/Unix on the desktop. I have interviewed people in the past for companies and it is a very sorry picture. 99% of the IT personell which has linux sysadmin on their CV have _NO_ clue on how to use deploy it so it is manageable.

      Most of the IT staff simply does not know how to deploy desktop unixen - neither thick, nor thin desktop.

      Now the fact that it can be deployed in more than one way is not something which I would hold to its disadvantage, but just the opposite.

      1. Bendy

        @ Anton Ivanov

        You may be correct, but point me to the documentation that ensures I am doing it correctely, give me the long term support I need and tools to deploy patches.

        While your at it, get someone to pay for my training too.

    2. Rob Beard
      Linux

      Open Sauce

      Have you tried looking at Karoshi. To be fair it's been 12 years since I worked in education and then it was at a College so Karoshi might not tick all the boxes but it's surely gotta help.

      Also I guess have a look at K12LTSP? (good way to reuse old machines).

      Rob

      1. Bendy

        @ Rob Beard

        That looks quite nice. I shall have a play!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Right..

    Speaking as one of those school support techs who (according to some of those above) knows bugger all, I welcome this. The term "Not BECTA approved", has been used to tie our hands for far too long, any time FOSS is mentioned, or development and supply of in-house programs. Maybe we can get back to giving our users what they need at a price they can afford, rather than passing along the latest hardware spec for a machine that wont do much more that browse the web, word processing and print a few jpg. If nothing else I hope it stops the dross that passes for educational software.

    anon for obvious reasons

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IT teachers...

    ...actually most schools would prefer that their IT teachers, err... teach IT, rather than being repair technicians or corporate sourcing folks. I’ve got no axe to grind in favour of BECTA, but the right answer isn’t to push the problem all the way out to the chalkface. You can see by the argument above about Open Office, Ubuntu whiteboards etc that it’s not an area where the answers are simple. I’m sure big colleges with large IT departments will be able to swim with their heads high above water, but what about a smallish primary school with 90 laptops, 9 interactive whiteboards and one teacher with responsibility for IT who if she’s lucky gets one half of her time to do everything to do with IT, including creating supporting materials for lessons, teaching other teachers, maintaining the school website and everything else... she’s not got a whole lot of time to decide to port the whole set-up over to Linux, now, has she?

    So by all means can BECTA, but makes sure there’s some other kind of support network to help all the other “one-woman bands” who will otherwise be left on their own all over the country...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Headmaster

      Re IT Teachers

      You just described the area I work in, not all primary's are the same, all the primary's in our area have there own dedicated support and help desk. I know I wouldn't trust any IC(spit)T Teacher or Coordinator to manage or support any of the multiple networks I manage. Its a hard line to walk knowing what you can do and doing what your allowed to do, but we make sure they all run smoothly and leave the teachers to teach, and they leave the tech to the techies.

    2. Ross 7

      Re:

      You need to differentiate between primary and secondary education. Primary tends to have smaller schools, whereas secondary tend towards being larger organisations.

      Secondary should be straightforward (except in very rural areas where the school is still small, i.e <700 kids on the roll) - you have IT staff (*not* teachers), they procure, or at least design the spec that is to be procured, and install and maintain (senior management often sort the actual spending of money).

      Smaller schools like primaries and some secondaries can either do the same, or if they are too small and lack the specialism they GO TO THE LOCAL AUTHORITY!!!!1!!11!! Piggy backing procurement in LAs is pretty common. The LA will be sourcing lots of stuff, so the schools (and libraries etc) can piggy back on to that for a decent deal and without needing any rare skills.

      No (state) school is ever on its own, it's part of an LEA. That it turn is part of the LA. If the schools aren't working together or with the LEA/LA and they are finding things hard then it's time to pick up the phone and network (if you'll pardon the appalling pun) Everyone can help each other, save the tax payer some money and stick something nice on their CV.

      PS - I don't disagree with what you're saying, I'm just pointing out that "one-woman bands" and their ilk aren't all alone in a scary world.

      PPS - Ubuntu in enterprise situations isn't the greatest idea. Linux is, but the support life of Ubuntu is too darned short (it is a really nice OS tho). All of the local LAs and LEAs here are still on XP (how old is that now?!) because it's still supoprted. How many versions of Ubuntu released since XP are now beyond their support period?

      1. Kevin Bailey

        Ubuntu support

        Check out Ubuntu LTS ( Long Term Support) - means it's supported for three years. (Five years on the server). More importantly this is how you upgrade Ubuntu.

        * Click upgrade.

        * Carry on working.

        * At some point later you should notice it says upgrade finished.

        * I would suggest a reboot (not necessarily needed).

        I've upgraded an Ubuntu laptop two/three times - and my Dell Mini 9 is still running the last LTS version.

        You chose what you want - but I suggest you use an LTS version - then upgrade three years later.

        And XP - does it count? Even with all it's patches it's still terrible. MS should have stuck with Win2k and developed it rather than mangling in all the 9x crud and producing XP.

        It always surprises me when people talk about XP like it's any good - it's slow to start with and then just gets slower.

        I

        1. Bendy

          @ Kevin Bailey

          More importantly this is how you upgrade Ubuntu.

          * Click upgrade.

          * Carry on working.

          * At some point later you should notice it says upgrade finished.

          * I would suggest a reboot (not necessarily needed).

          Ever done that 400 times? There is a lot of difference in managing your own machine and a network. I can save at least 3 days of my time by installing windows and using WDS, that in itself will pay for 12 Windows licences.

          Add the 6,000 new software installs, 18,000 Software Updates and god knows how many Updates and you may find that Windows does in some ways pay for itself with its management tools.

          I'd love it if Open Office became a standard though!

          Seriously though the FOSS crowd should stop pushing there wares until they have mature management tools to lock down desktops.

          1. Kevin Bailey

            Sigh... It's been done...

            Two minutes on Google should have found you what you mention.

            For comprehensive site wide management:

            http://www.canonical.com/projects/landscape

            'Add the 6,000 new software installs, 18,000 Software Updates and god knows how many Updates and you may find that Windows does in some ways pay for itself with its management tools'

            Right - we get a bit fed up explaining this time and again. All software on a Ubuntu machine comes from the same place. So one click and I can update ALL THE SOFTWARE on the machine - libraries, spreadsheets, compression tools, browsers, PDF readers, Java libraries, drivers, printer driver updates, office suites, the whole operating system and all software, EVERYTHING. In one click.

            The fact that on Windows that you have to download updates from all over the place is one of the biggest jokes about this joke OS.

            And do you know what - we've had centralised updates/repositories since BEFORE Windows 95!

            Please, please, please - grab an Ubuntu CD - do a test install.

            As for locking down desktops - it's there by default. That's why I can leave our five year old on a Ubuntu netbook without any fear of causing any problems.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    inseresting links

    http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/BECTA

  10. Alan Firminger

    Customer should pay

    If Becta has saved its costs then schools should subscribe as members.

    It would be best run by a board, or perhaps a trust, representing members.

    If enrolment were to be near total that would be less than 5 grand per school to provide the present funding. But there would come benefits of economy because schools are in the habit of parsimony, so big salaries, long expensive lunches on exes, and all the inevitable waste of government funded jobs gets ditched. Probably 2 grand per school, or £ 5 per pupil would cover it.

  11. Tom 7

    All these complaints about which Office Software to use

    in IT classes. So do physics departments argue over which knitting patterns to use?

    Teaching office skills is all well and good - but in IT classes?

    Its no wonder kids coming out of college think debugging involves staring long and hard at the screen and praying. A 2.1 in looking thing up in MSN is really helpful when the coffee machines knackered.

    1. Eponymous Cowherd
      Thumb Down

      ICT isn't Computer Science.

      Maybe it should be, but it isn't.

      It teaches kids to use computers, it does very little to teach them *about* computing.

      It attempts to train them to be efficient office drones, but fails miserably. The kids that are interested in computing are bored shitless at having to learn Word and Powerpoint instead of getting down to the nuts and bolts, while the rest are bored shitless, full stop.

      1. Piro Silver badge
        FAIL

        True

        This is entirely true. ICT teachers don't know IT at all.

        1. Eponymous Cowherd
          Thumb Up

          And those that do know IT.....

          Get so pissed of with teaching secretarial skills instead of IT that they piss off (back) to Industry.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Headmaster

        Nothing quite so useful

        Word and Powerpoint? Nothing so useful mate, Microsoft Publisher. So not even useful in an office drone context.

    2. Chris J

      The world needs more spreadsheet monkeys than coffee machine engineers.

      http://www.bing.com/search?q=how+to+fix+coffee+machine

  12. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Up

    Shorting RM

    (who are still *very* much in business).

    Sounds like a plan.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Tom 7

    "Its no wonder kids coming out of college think debugging involves staring long and hard at the screen and praying."

    Doesn't it? Damn, that's what I've been doing wrong all these years!

    On a wider note, back when my mum started teaching (in about '95) my younger brother and I were her main source of technical assistance and advice. However, as she was the only one at her first school with any knowledge of what a computer looked like she was asked to run the schools I.T. budget.

    From that experience, there is definitely room for SOME sort of advisory service to help ensure that these schools do not get ripped off for their I.T. requirements. You have to bear in mind that there's a massive difference between a Secondary/High school with a dedicated I.T. department and staff, and a Primary school with a middle-aged non-techy woman running the budget. While I agree that BECTA may have proved more of a hinderance to larger schools I do think that these smaller schools still need guidance.

    As for the arguments of whether Windows/Linux/Mac are most appropriate, I think there should be room for all of them within I.T. qualifications at schools, to ensure a broad knowledge. They could spend roughly equal amounts of money buying each type and get 50 Linux PC's, 20 Windows PC's and a Mac.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    A step in the right direction

    There's plenty of money to be saved in the sector; I just hope they are rational about where they are making the cuts. This seems to be a positive start.

    As for Linux on the desktop? I can't see it. We had some SUSE boxes here for a period of time (we responded to some periodic requests for Linux in our computer centre) but they were not a huge success. Also, the first line support at that site were not skilled in Linux (or specifically that distro) and felt limited that they were not able to help more. Likewise it was a time-intensive job to prep those clients when a similar windows deployment would have been essentially one-touch.

    I do not thing freedom in procurement and sacking BECTA essentially equates to opening the door for more open source projects; they still need to up their management tools; Windows and Apple are still the only game in town in this respect.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Becat home access package

    Is there where "poor" children are given free laptops and internet access at home, because it's "unfair" that their parent(s) cannot afford such things and otherwise they would have to go to the library?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too little too late

    The problem BECTA has had is that it has only in recent years grown any teeth, or indeed known what it is it was supposed to be doing. In many areas it still cannot tell schools what to do, merely recommend. Over the years it has created a huge bank of resources that are in fact useful to schools, including advice on child protection, procurement, subject specific data and many other delicate areas that schools required guidance on. Then hid them all in a website that was un-navagable and next to useless when it came to actually extracting relevant information from. It also made the mistake of being very teacher-centric when the vast majority of IT decisions in schools are now made by the on-site network managers and technicians, some of who are now (thankfully) reaching positions in the school senior leadership teams where they can prevent teachers making daft policy and spending decisions. It is only very recently BECTA has begun to deliver the goods after spending years flapping around in waht appeared to be a rudderless fashion. There was a lace for BECTA, it is a great shame that they never found out what it was until it was far too late.

    As with the Labour govts National Grid for Learning (NGfL) initiative which saw a huge boost in the levels of IT spending and infrastructure in schools, it fell down on the curriculum where the resources where wasted on simply teaching Microsoft Office skills, instead of preparing children in programming, networking and all of the really useful real world IT skills the country required to make it the IT powerhouse Labour intended. Well that and the fact that the vast bulk of IT teachers cannot teach any other skills apart from Office. IT in education needs a huge rethink to utilise the equipment the schools currently have and give our children the skills and interest levels required to steer them into a vast subject and career area where currently they are left with limited and boring lessons and teaching staff who do not have the skills to teach beyond the use of basic applications.

  17. ROCO
    Alert

    Home Access - will those with disabilities now be further disadvantaged and discriminated against???

    I'm very concerned that the Assistive Technology Equipment Supply (ATES) contract could now be jeopardised by the demise of Becta.

    Children with disabilities still haven't received their Home Access systems, as their disabilities need to be addressed with speciailist equipment for them to use the systems... so are the government going to disciminate against those with disabilities, given their Home Access provision was to be provided under the ATES contract - which has been longer in coming than the National roll-out for those with disabilities (which wouldn't be suitable for these kids)?

    If this was the case, it would fly in the face of all anti-discrimination legislation in the UK and paint a very poor picture for the new government - let's hope this isn't the case. My limited understanding is that this contract was just about to be awarded, giving those who are already doubly disadvantaged (low incomes + disbilities) a chance for a more level playing field in life.

    Just hoping that the government concurs by ensuring these kids with disabilities still receive their Home Access systems with the necessary technology they need to be effective and productive in their education and future employment - which must be a worthwhile long-term benefit to our economy???

  18. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Title Required

    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether Becta said you should use Microsoft Office, Open Office or whatever - it is the exam boards who set the courses and want course work in certain formats.

    Look at the BCS ECDL course that's common in schools, all the courseware I have ever seen for that has been for Microsoft Office.

    What Becta says/said will never make a difference while the exam boards are setting the requirements.

  19. Magnus_Pym

    Two points

    1.Becta stands between a Tory politician and his back-handers from commerce, of course they had to go.

    2. The comprehensive system is designed to feed industry with grunts. Your kids are taught what is useful to industry in your area. If you want then to get an education in how to make decisions and do stuff you have to pay for it.

  20. akicif
    WTF?

    Illiterate eejits

    It's a pity that the various people slagging off BECTA here have about as much wit as the numpties who slagged off Birmingham Council for cancelling Christmas; they've heard something somewhere, and haven't actually got around to checking it - most likely because it fits in with their preconceptions. I suspect that a lot of the time people in schools have been told "BECTA say this" or "BECTA say that" when it's just the LEA or the school admin types making life easier for themselves.

    For a more specific example, if any of them had bothered reading this page: http://about.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?resID=35287 they would have seen that BECTA not only didn't recommend wholesale adoption of Microsoft software, but also recommend Open Software and complained to the OFT about Microsoft's practices....

    Sadly, this also makes it a lot more understandable that our current Government should scrap them.

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