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back to article Vote Lib Dem, doom humanity to extinction

Tomorrow is election day, and on most issues the politicians aren't offering you any clear choices. Nobody's being open regarding what they'll do about the public finances, for instance: more than one politician has revealed total ignorance combined with terrifying eagerness to make policy. But on one issue there is a clear …

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  1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    I thought the Lib Dems were the only ones even thinking about the asteroid problem.

    Also, from your argument that no one would attack a nuclear-armed nation, nor, on the other hand, would NATO allies retaliate against an attack on any member - despite that being precisely what NATO is for - you've just proved that the 9/11 attacks in the nuclear-armed U.S. did not happen, nor did Britain go to war in Afghanistan and, for some reason presumably, Iraq, last decade, on account of our NATO mamber obligation.. Well done, I must have dreamed it. What a relief.

    As for nuclear power plants, economically they are mainly used for manufacture of nuclear weapons. Without the military cross-subsidy they are basically unaffordable.

    Mine's the dirty-bomb hazmat suit.

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  2. Alastair 7

    Erm..

    "Consider what follows, with Nick Clegg or a similarly-inclined Prime Minister, following an ICBM strike on the UK."

    Interesting how you don't elaborate on who might do that, or how it would happen. The Cold War is over, these days we have to meet diverse threats like suicide bombers. Unless you intend to point ICBMs at the arrivals lounge of Heathrow, I don't think they're going to help much.

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  3. nordwars
    Unhappy

    Damn you

    I finally thought I had a decision, and now you go and force me to rethink. They are some pretty bad points (bad points for the LibDems, good points from you).

    What are the options if you don't want to vote for stifled technology, but still like their policies about political reform, and reversing the wave of civil liberty erosion the UK has suffered? Surely these are more central to their party values than their technology policies (being liberal and all). I would hope that they would be more flexible on the technology side of things.

    Unfortunately for me, technological development and civil liberties are my top two issues. Why oh why do the Lib Dems have to do so well on one and so poorly on the other?

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    1. Roger Paul
      Reply Icon

      Easy now...

      Don't take the article at face value, a lot of the content is blown out of proportion. Nick has said he'd add Trident to a defence review, that's all. If the review came back saying 'we need Trident or a replacement' then that's what he'd do.

      Don't let looney articles like this sway you, and for god's sake don't take this reply at face value either. Have a look at what Nick has actually said and interpret it yourself.

      I hear Lewis is an escaped mental patient. I don't know where, it's just what I heard.

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    2. David Adams
      Reply Icon
      Megaphone

      You don't need to rethink, you know the answer already and it doesn't come from Lewis Page.

      The single most important issue facing us in this election is electoral reform.

      Once we have reformed our broken electoral system, there will be another election and that is where the other important issues, like these, will be discussed.

      (Although I can't see that us having the ability to destroy asteroids is that big an issue!)

      The Tories are using every scare tactic they can think of to stop a hung parliament because it terrifies them so much.

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Flame

        "Although I can't see that us having the ability to destroy asteroids is that big an issue!"

        And you won't be worried or see the point of asteroid deterrent until someone spots the one that'll hit next week.

        Same with a nuclear deterrent- when the call comes to wipe the buggers who just bombed us off the face of the planet, you'll whine when we can't actually do anything. Even if they (whoever they turn out to be) don't attack us, just having people who don't really like us that much arming themselves with nukes when we've given them up sounds... well, daft.

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        1. David Adams
          Reply Icon
          Unhappy

          here we go again

          "And you won't be worried or see the point of asteroid deterrent until someone spots the one that'll hit next week."

          Even if they do spot one next week, what are we going to do?

          It's not possible to predict where an asteroid will impact exactly and with the relatively (to the circumference of the planet) diminutive size of the UK, there is more than enough of a margin of error for it to fall short and hit Russia (in which case the Russians might want to deal with it) or overshoot us and hit the Atlantic (in which case I guess the USA would do something about it to avoid the resulting tidal wave wiping out their eastern seaboard).

          Can't see Russia or the USA waiting to let us have a shot at it first can you?

          Can we all accept that the asteroid argument is just bollocks please?

          And no-one who would want to attack us with Nukes has the facility to do so.

          Yes, they may in the future, but a cold war submarine launched weapon isn't the answer to an attack from Iran or North Korea is it.

          If a Nuclear launch is detected by any nation, everyone panics. The one thing they won't do is sit and see where it lands before deciding what they are going to do.

          If they do wait for us to be hit, how do they know where our retaliation strike is going?

          They don't, Russia and China shit themselves and launch against us anyway as it may be an automatic response to an attack, and it could be heading their way.

          To launch at us, Iran have to overfly most of Europe so any member of Nato could be at risk not to mention Israel. This will bring about a Nato/US/Israeli response.

          Korea on the other hand would have to overfly China, Russia, Canada or the USA, none of whom would take kindly to being in the possible firing line.

          If anyone launches at us, we aren't going to be able to retaliate, with or without Trident.

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      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Totally agree,

        If people actually knew that a vote for the Liberals would definitely mean more Liberal MP's then I think that a hell of a lot more people would vote for them.

        This is why PR terrifies both the old stalking horses as the seats in parliament have to come from somewhere.

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        1. David Adams
          Reply Icon
          Thumb Up

          break up of big parties

          Most forms of PR often mean more smaller parties. This isn't neccessarily a bad thing, contrary to what the Tories/Murdoch would have us believe.

          If you vote for one of the Main Parties at the moment, you are compromising.

          I doubt anyone can say that they whole heartedly believe in everything their chosen party stands for. There is always something you're just not comfortable with.

          What this leaves us with, is a system which means that when a party gains power, they assume they have a mandate to do everything they want, without having to acknowledge that not everything they want to do is welcomed, even by their own supporters.

          More political parties mean you are more likely to find a party which matches your beliefs closer than the big main parties do at the moment.

          This means that you don't have to vote for someone just because you hate them less that the other lot, you vote for who you want to represent you and who reflects your views most closely.

          Loads of small parties sounds like a nightmare, and if you have too many it could become a joke, but going from 3 to 6 or even 10 smaller parties will mean that there are enough with quite a bit in common to form a workable coalition government.

          Instead of Labour, Lib-Dems and Tories you could have:

          Old Labour, Labour, SDP, Liberals, Conservative, UKIP, New Labour

          each of which would better represent their supporters.

          More representation and more representative representation will give us a stronger democracy.

          (Think I'll copyright that!)

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  4. Squirrel
    Alert

    Or vote laborious or convicts

    The two 'main' parties are so close on the political compass they might as well be the same party. Alternating between them ad infinitum is madness. Only mad people repeat the same mistake over and over and expect the result to change.

    Conservatives want "change"? wait what was your party name again? no kidding.

    ICBM is not a valid threat to this country and hasn't been for many many years. The UK is a toothless lumbering wreck on the international stage. We need to call everyone back and completely reevaluate what we do. We're just a tiny island not the USA and even contributing 1/6 of what the US do is far more than our fair share. We spend far too much on 'defence' for all the wrong reasons.

    Asteroids, if we see them coming I'm quite sure our current tridents have zero chance of hitting them because they don't have enough fuel to break orbit and reach a roid before it's too close to make a difference (it'll break up and scattershot the planet), leave that to the yanks or russians.

    Power is a different issue and I agree that for the foreseeable future nuclear is important until solar & wind power catches up, and then we'll still need nuclear as backup for windless cloudy days. And do as some remote US towns do and use massive batteries to assist power peak usage and other deficits.

    Luckily air con is a US fad for residential or we'd be properly screwed.

    We can do it on wave/wind/solar but we're not quite there yet, maybe in 10-20 years with higher efficiency tech. OFC population caps/limits need to be seriously looked at like in China and Japan or power requirements and imports of all kinds will just continue climbing.

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  5. Anonymous Coward
    IT Angle

    Im...

    Voting Liberal anyways. Dont give up the day job Lewis!

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  6. R J Tysoe

    Stick to IT

    It's about time you got rid of Lewis. His lunatic rants are lowering the tone of the place.

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  7. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    I must agree...

    A shite article.

    If I want biased policital coverage i will got to the tabloids.

    Whilst I wont be voting liberal and happen to agree that scrapping our nukes is a bloody silly idea. i find this article to be a party political broadcast.

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  8. Is it me?

    We are a broad church

    As a seasoned Lib-Dem, I can tell you that not all within the party happens to be anti-nuclear, as a seasoned human being I can also tell you that there is one hell of a lot of difference between a party manifesto and what the party will actually do, be they Labour, Tory, LibDem or Monster Raving Looney. I am actually a Multi-latteralist and pro-nuclear power, and I don't base my support for the party on the policies I disagree with but on the balance of all policies. It is however a moot point as to the affordability of a new system, just now.

    party manifestos are usually documents to get activists excited enough to actually go out an bang on doors, very few people actually read them, in fact I think journalists and commentators are about the only ones who do. Possibly the odd fanatical activist. If you really want some fun at election time memorise all the manifestos, keep them by the door, and challenge anyone who knocks on the dorr to explain the manifesto.

    Don't worry, when it comes down to it, saner heads will prevail, and we will land up with a more sustainable mixed energy economy. Either that or we have to encourage about 50 Million of our population to B*gg*r off somewhere else, so that we can be self sufficient in Energy and Food within the UK.

    Mind you it is so much easier to peddle doom, gloom and disaster.

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Replacing Trident

    Come on, Trident is up for replacement in, what, 12 years? Do we really think whoever wins this time around will win again in four years let alone twelve?

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  10. The Original Ash
    Dead Vulture

    On /. I filter out kdawson

    I wish I could filter out Lewis Page and Andrew Orlowski on The Reg.

    Goodbye IT news, hello anti-Liberal propaganda machine.

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    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      Filtering

      Last I looked, the author's name appears at the top of each article. You might try reading that. There's also a clue in the category. Complaining that "This article published under the Opinion banner is rather opinionated" is a bit like saying "Where's the IT angle" for a Bootnote.

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    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Grenade

      Help! Help! Save me from Lewis Page!

      So you want to censor views that upset your cosy little view of the world.

      I'm sure there's a blog out there somewhere where you can feel safer. Would you mind fucking off there?

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        FAIL

        AC@ 23:09, Why don't you fuck off and get a dictionary

        It isnt censorship to ignore what you percieve as ignorance.

        It's only censorship to try to block it from others.

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  11. Carlo Francolini

    Who is this idiot?

    Sooo many holes in this logic that I wouldn't even know where to start. If I could be bother refuting them. As others have said, stick to technical analysis and leave us to make up our own minds on politics. Really, really disappointed in you, El Reg.

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  12. Busted

    The Cherno Problem

    Having read and a listened about what when on in and around Chernobyl I can safely say I'd rather burn fossil fuels and pump money into various alternatives than spend another penny on Nuclear.

    Also when polution has a half life longer than we have had modern man on this planet you have to wonder is this really the clean alternative.

    Nuclear Fuel NO, Nuclear Weapons NO and sorry to say Lib Dem's NO.

    Still don't know who I'll vote for but I know who I won't and they both start with L.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      What Cherno Problem?

      I agree, we shouldn't choose an unsafe design (RBMK) that was never accepted in the West, skip safety tests in order to beat deadlines for propaganda purposes, allow safety features to be deactivated and staff the control room with incompetents.

      But what's that got to do with nuclear in the UK today?

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  13. JasonW
    Boffin

    If there's been an ICBM strike on the UK...

    ... the likelihood is that it's too late anyway (since the country is so London-centric it's more likely to land somewhere inside the M25 - the irony is that the BBC won't be able to report on it because they'd be up in smoke too) and the PM of the day might well have been incinerated in the process so will be unable to 'return serve' as it were anyway.

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    1. David Adams
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      Aha, but

      "the irony is that the BBC won't be able to report on it because they'd be up in smoke too"

      That's why they're moving half the BBC to Manchester.

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  14. irish donkey
    Stop

    ToryBoy Alert - ToryBoy Alert

    Try and do something different from your father, Think for yourself!

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  15. Stefing
    FAIL

    "following an ICBM strike on the UK"

    You know what - I think I'll take my chances!

    It seems to have worked for... well, EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      What about Japan?

      Do you think the Yanks would have nuked them if they'd had similarly powerful weapons? Or, if they did, do you think they'd have left enough of the country un-nuked that we'd have seen images of mere injuries?

      No, the Americans would have either held back- or nuked the crap out of Japan and hoped they could defeat any retaliation.

      But the Japanese didn't have nukes so they did get nuked. The US and the USSR had fscking huge stockpiles of nukes pointed at each other, hated each other for 50 years, fought wars-by-proxy and still didn't use their nukes.

      So, stefing, I think that's quite a big fail for you!

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What about Japan?

        The whole deterrent effect of nukes came about because everyone saw that the consequences were horrifying and indiscriminate, that such weapons could be deployed with considerably less effort than conventional weapons, and that it would serve no-one to start using them unless it were part of an end-game. Indeed, the western powers and the Soviet powers went on to fight proxy wars almost immediately after the Second World War, and nukes never came into play. Naturally, had the Koreas or Vietnam had nukes and the capacity to use them against larger powers, it might have been different, but when your country is being laid to waste, that certainly meets the end-game criteria.

        Generally, you have to be in a desperate total war to want to use nukes. And unless you have no sense of humanity, you get to feel very guilty about it afterwards, unless you've very carefully targeted the military of your opponents.

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  16. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Face Palm Logo Required.

    You could almost be a an actual politician in the election with the crap you spilled forth! Let's face it it's going to be a 'best of a bad bunch' situation at the polling booth tomorrow whatever party you support so why try this political garbage in an IT news site!

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  17. Ken Hagan Gold badge

    Relax...

    The *first* think the LibDems would do in power would be to change the voting system. Having done that, they'd never have a majority in parliament for any of the things Lewis is worried about.

    4 2
  18. Bluetoothh
    IT Angle

    Say whut?

    I not going to make this a long one.

    You say dont vote for the lib dems, so who should we vote for? conservatives who want to fire people like myself for doing their job? (Public sector it tech) or should i stick with labour who want to fudge over my raises every year? (0% over the next 3 years when i am paid under HALF of what private techs guy).

    Seriously, this is an IT website, about IT news, you want to post rhetoric like this go to the daily mail or something. Tomshardware has gone severely downhill lately and thereg was one of my havens of technology news, i have no lost this haven.

    Buck your ideas up.

    4 1
    1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)
      Reply Icon

      Re: Say whut?

      I'd just like to point out that the Reg has always run political coverage and opinion, so there should be no surprise or outrage that it's happening now the day before a general election; so if you could restrain your abuse to Lewis, that'd probably help your blood pressure. I'm just looking out for you.

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    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Flame

      You get less than half....

      ...what private sector people get for the same work? That means that you're working for the wrong people then!

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  19. Neil Gardner
    FAIL

    Technocrats?

    Is El Reg run by the pro-nuclear, pro-big-pharam, pro-GM and vehemently anti-green Frank Furedi sect, currently known as Spiked Online. Check them out at http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=LM_group .... They exert significant influence on the media and really just apologists for big business...

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    1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)
      Reply Icon

      Re: Technocrats?

      Dear Neil, no we're not. Regards.

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Coat

        You

        must be laughing your socks off moderating this one!

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    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Yes but...

      Sourcewatch is a couple of bedwetting Chomskyite students in their bedroom.

      Different points of view seem to terrify you. Why is that?

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    3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Welcome

      What?

      >> Is El Reg run by the pro-nuclear, pro-big-pharam, pro-GM and vehemently anti-green Frank Furedi sect

      So what exactly is wrong with being pro-nuclear, pro-big-pharam, pro-GM and vehemently anti-green?

      I will take my nuclear reactors over a coal-fired horror anytime, with GM corn on the side, too, as long I see all the Intellectual Property B.S. legislation sink and burn.

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  20. Nick Kew

    Come on

    Humanity to extinction? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration?

    I'm sure Britain can sustain some population long-term without nuclear energy. Maybe 10% of what we currently have.

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  21. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    What?

    The Register is all about the technology, not some unctious eejit scaremongering. But for the record, the UK is NOTHING on the world stage of war and that, with the exception of being a lapdog to the USA. We don't need nuclear weapons because there's no enemy we could fire them at any more - terrorists famously don't live in Terrorististan. The cold war is over.

    This whole piece is made of utter FAIL. Sack the author now, he sucks.

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    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Sack the author

      I'd rather have Lewis Page writing articles than Anonymous Coward writing comments.

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Megaphone

        Seconded

        I don't agree with Lewis Page on nukes, but he makes a reasonable case.

        Can we just turn comments off? The intolerant boneheads here don't make El Reg any better. Not one rational remark yet, just whining.

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  22. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    PR to the people

    What a rubbish article.

    And to be fair, by the time any country starts chucking nukes about, life ain't going to be worth living for much longer afterwards.

    PR to the People

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  23. Graham Marsden
    FAIL

    Who are we going to nuke in retaliation??

    Ignoring the ridiculous Tabloidesque anti-Lib Dem rhetoric that sounds more like something from the Murdoch Press, would Lewis Page care to tell us *who* is likely to try to lob an ICBM at the UK and *which* cities (and their millions of civilians) we are going to oblitterate in our "nation wrecking" retaliation?

    In case it has escaped his notice, the Cold War has ended, so it's very unlikely that any country that actually has the ability to launch an ICBM strike on the UK *would* do so and the so-called "rogue states" like Iran or North Korea know damn well that don't have enough bombs to stop the rest of the world dropping on them like a ton of bricks if they did start lobbing nukes around.

    A more likely scenario might be to put a nuke (or a dirty bomb) on a boat and sail it up the Thames, but then who do we lob a missile at in payback?

    As for Space Travel, I'm all for it, but perhaps we'd better fix the big hole in the bottom of the boat before we start re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic...

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  24. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Ha ha ha ha

    Vote Lib Dem = Death to humanity from asteroids.

    It's true because Lewis says so.

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  25. Pete Baker
    FAIL

    I don't think so

    Lib Dems are not going to be in power next week, so its safe to say that their energy policy isn't going to take hold, especially as the two other major parties are strongly pro-nuclear. Its safe to say that the UK will be building new nuclear plants, even if you do vote Lib Dem tomorrow.

    Its also safe to say that voting Lib Dem isn't going to commit us to a firey death from some rogue state's ICBM. Its never going to happen, so please limit your fearmongering to this year's acceptable topics, such as terrorists and immigrant paedos.

    I heard the Lib Dem's were going to give kids swine flu. Oh hold on, my mistake that was last year.

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  26. waarg
    FAIL

    El reg trying to do politics

    #nickcleggsfault

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  27. Willowbark
    Megaphone

    Very disappointing

    If you're going to start blasting out narrow-minded politically biased twaddle - at least make it funny!

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  28. John Savard

    In That Case

    Clearly Canada (and Australia, for that matter) need to get cracking on developing their own nuclear arsenals immediately, because obviously the United States would never risk its own people by retaliating if we were the target of a nuclear attack.

    The logic of the article may be quite correct, but it implies that having any of the world's democracies in the non-proliferation treaty is quite daft.

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  29. Critical

    Nonsense - as a science-related website you would do better to support them..

    Check out http://www.geekthevote.org.uk/ and read the actual policies, or just see how respected people like Evan Harris are in the science community.

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